CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

  • #1,021
We can't even prove one single alibi. How helpless we are. 😔
We have no idea who needs an alibi, but other than the people who were out of the country, the inner circle generally do not have great alibis. They are all using their phone GPS as their alibis.
 
  • #1,022
We have no idea who needs an alibi, but other than the people who were out of the country, the inner circle generally do not have great alibis. They are all using their phone GPS as their alibis.
They could have just left their phone at home when they committed the murders. Maybe LE relying on cell phone GPS is why no one has been charged!🙈
 
  • #1,023
They could have just left their phone at home when they committed the murders. Maybe LE relying on cell phone GPS is why no one has been charged!🙈
If someone gets to the stage of being a suspect, a phone sitting at home won't be an alibi. More likely, the fact that it sat there unused during the exact time frame of the crime, when it would normally be checked quite often, will be seen as evidence of deception and therefore guilt.

Dellen Millard left his phone at his friend's house, and asked them to order pizza on his credit card at a key time, and that made him look very guilty because he meanwhile used a burner phone to call a taxi and it was in the area when he killed his father.
 
  • #1,024
Did the night walker NW have a (burner) phone or not? Or was he only seen on surveillance camera?
Sorry, my memory ...
 
  • #1,025
They could have just left their phone at home when they committed the murders. Maybe LE relying on cell phone GPS is why no one has been charged!🙈

I wouldn't think the police are quite so naive.
 
  • #1,026
I don't think we will ever know who did it. But what a horrible way to be remembered forever :(
 
  • #1,027
Did the night walker NW have a (burner) phone or not? Or was he only seen on surveillance camera?
Sorry, my memory ...
The night walker did not have a burner phone and I’ve never understood why people think he would have needed one. He knew enough not to bring his car; it’s reasonable to expect he knew a phone was unnecessary and introduced risk.
 
  • #1,028
We have no idea who needs an alibi, but other than the people who were out of the country, the inner circle generally do not have great alibis. They are all using their phone GPS as their alibis.
People lie. The challenge for Law Enforcement is to discover the truth, and when people are lying and why they are lying. Unfortunately it is very difficult to ascertain when somebody is lying, unless you have solid evidence that refutes the lie.

Expert criminals, know they have to lie, and try very hard to not leave any evidence regarding the crime for Law Enforcement to discover.

The only Person of Interest that the TPS has not interviewed is the Night Walker, and I believe he is the key to this case.
As long as he is not identified, located and interviewed chances are nobody will be charged with any crime.

Is it too late for the TPS to start a world-wide manhunt?
 
  • #1,029
People lie. The challenge for Law Enforcement is to discover the truth, and when people are lying and why they are lying. Unfortunately it is very difficult to ascertain when somebody is lying, unless you have solid evidence that refutes the lie.

Expert criminals, know they have to lie, and try very hard to not leave any evidence regarding the crime for Law Enforcement to discover.

The only Person of Interest that the TPS has not interviewed is the Night Walker, and I believe he is the key to this case.
As long as he is not identified, located and interviewed chances are nobody will be charged with any crime.

Is it too late for the TPS to start a world-wide manhunt?
interesting viewpoint; could it be that the Night Walker is just an innocent neighbor out for a walk & does not want to come forward because they know they will be the prime suspect?
 
  • #1,030
interesting viewpoint; could it be that the Night Walker is just an innocent neighbor out for a walk & does not want to come forward because they know they will be the prime suspect?
No. There are many innocent neighbours out for walks on the videos the police gathered. They have excluded everyone except the NW. They released this video and asked the person to come forward so he could be excluded. That did not happen.

The police obviously will not just be taking a phone GPS or a spouse’s alibi as exonerating a person if evidence shows that person committed this crime. Police seek multiple lines of evidence that all point in the same direction. Phone GPS was a huge time-suck for them but it led nowhere. They abandoned this line of inquiry years ago; that’s how we know about it.
 
  • #1,031
Did the night walker NW have a (burner) phone or not? Or was he only seen on surveillance camera?
Sorry, my memory ...
No, because criminals have learned since cases like Dellen Millard's not to go to the crime scene with even a burner phone. I was just citing it as an example.

Any unusual behaviour is evidence. For example, it is suspicious that the Nightwalker came and went, that same evening in the upscale neighbourhood, without leaving phone signals.

In the Idaho 4 case, an often cited piece of evidence against Kohberger was that he turned his phone off, just as he left his residence, and turned it back on after the crime. I believe we'll.see this brought in as evidence in the upcoming trial against Suzanne Morphew's husband. The guy never turned off his phone, except just before Suzanne's own phone stopped bring used.

It also came up in the evidence against the Delphi killer - his phone didn't ping in the area of the crime. He admitted he was there, yet slipped up and said he was using it. Again, why turn it off except to hide your presence? LE also cited as evidence that he'd apparently kept all his old phones, except for the one he'd owned at the time of the crime.

IMO, unless someone exists without a phone at all, once they're suspected and LE can therefore get a warrant to seize their phone, a lot of lies are exposed indirectly.
 
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  • #1,032
People lie. The challenge for Law Enforcement is to discover the truth, and when people are lying and why they are lying. Unfortunately it is very difficult to ascertain when somebody is lying, unless you have solid evidence that refutes the lie.

Expert criminals, know they have to lie, and try very hard to not leave any evidence regarding the crime for Law Enforcement to discover.

The only Person of Interest that the TPS has not interviewed is the Night Walker, and I believe he is the key to this case.
As long as he is not identified, located and interviewed chances are nobody will be charged with any crime.

Is it too late for the TPS to start a world-wide manhunt?
I am not sure what they would be looking for, or how to narrow the search? A 5 ft 6 inch person (likely a man but we aren’t sure), who walks with a funny gait? Other than that, I don’t know if they have any other specific info on the person.
 
  • #1,033
No, because criminals have learned since cases like Dellen Millard's not to go to the crime scene with even a burner phone. I was just citing it as an example.
accept for Idaho 4 murderer lol
 
  • #1,034
No, because criminals have learned since cases like Dellen Millard's not to go to the crime scene with even a burner phone. I was just citing it as an example.

Any unusual behaviour is evidence. For example, it is suspicious that the Nightwalker came and went, that same evening in the upscale neighbourhood, without leaving phone signals.

In the Idaho 4 case, an often cited piece of evidence against Kohberger was that he turned his phone off, just as he left his residence, and turned it back on after the crime. I believe we'll.see this brought in as evidence in the upcoming trial against Suzanne Morphew's husband. The guy never turned off his phone, except just before Suzanne's own phone stopped bring used.

It also came up in the evidence against the Delphi killer - his phone didn't ping in the area of the crime. He admitted he was there, yet slipped up and said he was using it. Again, why turn it off except to hide your presence? LE also cited as evidence that he'd apparently kept all his old phones, except for the one he'd owned at the time of the crime.

IMO, unless someone exists without a phone at all, once they're suspected and LE can therefore get a warrant to seize their phone, a lot of lies are exposed indirectly.

Just a thought: they can exist without a cellphone or a car GPS.

There is a train station in Toronto, isn’t it? I was just looking at different railway tours, seasons and prices in Canada.

It would be a winter tour, and there are many. Practically it makes more sense to take a railway train from Toronto to Montreal, but we don’t know if the man is a Canadian and if he needs to exit the country.

Anyhow, to arrive at the station, leave the cellphone with the luggage there, maybe walk to the Shermans’ house (I don’t know how far away the railroad is), do the job and return back. Maybe if the railway is far, another participant would give him a ride and drop off a couple of miles away from the house. As long as he doesn’t carry a phone, it is OK.

I think that railroads are often neglected in the favor of airports. Canadian railroad is in a very good condition, though.
 
  • #1,035
Just a thought: they can exist without a cellphone or a car GPS.

There is a train station in Toronto, isn’t it? I was just looking at different railway tours, seasons and prices in Canada.

It would be a winter tour, and there are many. Practically it makes more sense to take a railway train from Toronto to Montreal, but we don’t know if the man is a Canadian and if he needs to exit the country.

Anyhow, to arrive at the station, leave the cellphone with the luggage there, maybe walk to the Shermans’ house (I don’t know how far away the railroad is), do the job and return back. Maybe if the railway is far, another participant would give him a ride and drop off a couple of miles away from the house. As long as he doesn’t carry a phone, it is OK.

I think that railroads are often neglected in the favor of airports. Canadian railroad is in a very good condition, though.
You raise an interesting possibility regarding train travel. It is too far to walk from Toronto’s main train station (Union Station) to 50 Old Colony Rd. There is a local commuter train (“Go Train”) that travels between Union Station and a train station that is about a 35 minute walk from Old Colony. However that train only runs southbound towards Union Station in the morning rush hour; and from Union Station going north a few times late in the afternoon/early evening. The killer could have taken that Go Train from Union in the late afternoon and then walked to Old Colony. But he/she/they wouldn’t have been able to take the train back to Union after the murders as the southbound route only operates in the morning.
I hope you enjoy your visit when you come!
 
  • #1,036
You raise an interesting possibility regarding train travel. It is too far to walk from Toronto’s main train station (Union Station) to 50 Old Colony Rd. There is a local commuter train (“Go Train”) that travels between Union Station and a train station that is about a 35 minute walk from Old Colony. However that train only runs southbound towards Union Station in the morning rush hour; and from Union Station going north a few times late in the afternoon/early evening. The killer could have taken that Go Train from Union in the late afternoon and then walked to Old Colony. But he/she/they wouldn’t have been able to take the train back to Union after the murders as the southbound route only operates in the morning.
I hope you enjoy your visit when you come!


You’re right about the GO train. Just to add more detail:

Oriole train station is close to the former Sherman home. The GO train passes Oriole southbound during morning rush hour, then northbound at evening rush hour, it doesn’t stop otherwise. No trains after 7:11 pm going northbound. The next train goes southbound at 6:36 am.
It’s a tiny station with one track. (No Go busses there.)

305432-d398517ed69c0b818aaabcfeeed00bda.jpg.png



https://www.gotransit.com/static_fi...Planning/FullSchedules/FS29012022/Table61.pdf





389801-83f7ea39ea197e20735da4fe3061d6fd.jpg

I highlighted the GO train rail in blue. Google maps image. The pin is at where the WM suspect was last caught on cctv.

If the WM took transit, there was a bus route on Bannatyne, where he was captured walking, and the nearest TTC station is within walking distance at Leslie & Sheppard.
 
  • #1,037
You raise an interesting possibility regarding train travel. It is too far to walk from Toronto’s main train station (Union Station) to 50 Old Colony Rd. There is a local commuter train (“Go Train”) that travels between Union Station and a train station that is about a 35 minute walk from Old Colony. However that train only runs southbound towards Union Station in the morning rush hour; and from Union Station going north a few times late in the afternoon/early evening. The killer could have taken that Go Train from Union in the late afternoon and then walked to Old Colony. But he/she/they wouldn’t have been able to take the train back to Union after the murders as the southbound route only operates in the morning.
I hope you enjoy your visit when you come!
The TTC operates a subway that goes from both north and south from Union Station. (the Yonge Line) I believe between 6:00am and 2:00am. The York Mills subway station is a 45 minute walk from the Sherman's home.

The subway leaves York Mills and stops at Union Station and from there one could take a train to Montreal with an international airport, or Windsor Ontario, which has an international crossing with Detroit Michigan. These would be 5 hour train rides or less. Most likely leaving in the morning.

Leaving Canada a day or two after the murders would be easy, as the TPS were not aware of the deaths for day and a half and did not even determine a crime had occurred for another six weeks. So no customs or border personnel would have been alerted.

If the Night Walker was a Canadian resident, and wished to stay in the country, the train would also be a good option.

Easy getaway.
 
  • #1,038
The
I would be pleased if that happens. Unfortunately we websleuthers are operating with a dearth of information.

A few things come to mind that make this such a difficult case to solve.

1) The TPC taking six weeks to determine that a crime took place. If on the day the bodies were discovered, the TPC had all the borders impose very tight security checks on individuals leaving the country, maybe the TPS would have developed more leads. Remember it was the TPS stated there was likely an overseas aspects to the case.

2) The individual(s) who actually committed the crimes, appear very sophisticated and knowledgeable in their craft. They have not left many clues.

3) Nobody is talking. People who know something are silent, because they fear prison time or an untimely death.

4) Having one detective assigned to the case, will not likely lead to success. This case I believe needs a full task force, starting at the beginning again.

5) As long there is no political will or leadership, the TPS working under budget constraints and as a bureaucracy will not dedicate the resources required.

MOO
TPS needs to take a good hard look at itself and admit its current investigation us going nowhere. Until someone from TPS admits that then nothing is gonna change. It needs to accept it needs a new taskforce and direction.

I personally dont believe this is a murder situation committed with a lot of sophistication. I do believe it was was committed with a certain degree of self preservation and some basic knowledge of forensics. I believe opportunity was priority for the perpetrators above anything else which was secondary. All the perpetrators had to do was wear gloves and take away any restraints used. It's not rocket science. It's not sophisticated. Even if forensics had been properly carried out I doubt much information would have been gained from what we already know which is very little. The bottom line is not to overthink this.

What we know -

What strikes me most about the perpetrators is that they knew the security cameras in the pool area weren't being used. Or did they know but had no care for it? This shows either knowledge about the cameras or a total disregard. If it's a total disregard as to whether they were working when they perpetrated the murders then why? I believe it's because they could have worn clothing that covered their faces. For example, the walking man.

We know the perpetrators took away the restraints to remove the possibility of leaving their DNA and or make it harder for the police to identify specific ligature used. This is not sophisticated.

If there is any sophistication then it is that they committed the murders at the right time. But then again is it sophisticated to assume that the best time to committed the murders is when both victims have finished work. The victims live on their own so it's not sophistication to work out that to follow one of them home or attack in the evening would be the best time.

I do not believe this crime is complicated or sophisticated in the way that it was carried out. Sometimes solutions are more simple.
 
  • #1,039
Planes, trains and automobiles, never thought much about the trains, till now.. Take subway at Union train station to Bayview subway station, then walk the approx. 13 minutes from Bayview subway to 50 Old Colony Rd? speculation.


35 min (18.5 km) via Bayview Ave

There are 4 ways to get from Toronto Union Station to Bayview station (Toronto) by subway, bus, taxi, or car

44 min (24.1 km) via Don Valley Pkwy N
 

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