CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[Lexiintoronto]

I think Alex should build a unique home. Pick a great architect and make it a piece of art. Maybe try to make it green at the same time with solar features.

They lost the most precious, irreplaceable people that night. Someone took their lives and in effect destroyed the home. Build a jewel. Something artistic that Honey would have appreciated and a smart design that Barry would have liked.

 

[Kerry Winter]

Rbbm.
'Holy foreshadowing Batman'
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“I always thought I would die in this house,”……

 

[wibbleflea]

We could stick with the financial motives and note that Barry was calling loans, laying off staff and cutting non-family members off. Meanwhile he was telling everyone who would listen that Honey was insisting on spending millions on a new home. A person who heard this might believe that getting Honey out of the way would return Barry to his typical generosity.

Exactly this. There may be a personal angle, too – less to do with finances.

 

[Charlot123]

I think Alex should build a unique home. Pick a great architect and make it a piece of art. Maybe try to make it green at the same time with solar features.

They lost the most precious, irreplaceable people that night. Someone took their lives and in effect destroyed the home. Build a jewel. Something artistic that Honey would have appreciated and a smart design that Barry would have liked.

I thought, a garden or a small park with a couple of sculptures in the vein of the Shermans’ charity work.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Maybe a hospice or something where good can be done. I don’t know if you need special zoning for that but it would be in keeping with what the Sherman’s did.

 

[WINDSOR]

When you’re not laser-focused on inheritance as the only possible motive, many other motives come into view.

We could stick with the financial motives and note that Barry was calling loans, laying off staff and cutting non-family members off. Meanwhile he was telling everyone who would listen that Honey was insisting on spending millions on a new home. A person who heard this might believe that getting Honey out of the way would return Barry to his typical generosity.

Now I am not aware of Barry being constrained by Honey in any financial matter in the past. It seems she accepted how he spent the money. As well I believe Barry did not deny Honey anything she desired. So I do not see how anybody could see getting rid of Honey would loosen Barry's purse strings.

Yes it is believed Barry was not happy with the new home. Except he met with architects, gave input on the design, and he signed the listing to sell the old house. I believe the fact Barry bitched about the new home, was more of a function of his grumpy personality and his miserly outlook. Barry always complained about spending money.
MOO




.

 

[fadedglitter]

Now I am not aware of Barry being constrained by Honey in any financial matter in the past. It seems she accepted how he spent the money. As well I believe Barry did not deny Honey anything she desired. So I do not see how anybody could see getting rid of Honey would loosen Barry's purse strings.

Yes it is believed Barry was not happy with the new home. Except he met with architects, gave input on the design, and he signed the listing to sell the old house. I believe the fact Barry bitched about the new home, was more of a function of his grumpy personality and his miserly outlook. Barry always complained about spending money.
MOO




.

Honey convinced Barry to stop giving huge sums to their two younger daughters. The two oldest received large sums for investing and as regular payments; the younger two far less. (Still a lot by Canadian standards but less than their big brother and sister.) If inheritance was the motive, could it not be that someone saw the opportunity to get her fair share, a true 25% rather than watching millions be poured into her brother’s storage company?

We now know that Barry was participating in the meetings with builders. But the murderer may have had no idea. The murderer certainly did not have all of the emails showing the steps Barry was taking to free up cash, like cutting FDA off. It would be unwise to assume the murderer had all of the information that has since been published in the Star.

 

[wibbleflea]

It would be unwise to assume the murderer had all of the information that has since been published in the Star.

Agreed. It’s a tempting assumption and I see it in so many cases, including historical cold cases that have now been solved using genetic genealogy. In those cases, the killer’s planning was assumed by investigators to have been much cleverer and more knowledgeable than it was eventually revealed to be.

In this case, I’ve read (in the Star and in long-form articles elsewhere) and heard (in the two multi-episode podcasts, including KD’s) suggestions that the killer likely knew that key Apotex staff would be away (staff who would have raised the alarm about Barry’s absence at work), that the killer likely knew about an early return home for BS & HS that evening, and perhaps knew also about the absence of some of HS’s staff. These things may be relevant, but it’s not a given.

Something else: we know that the police are looking for the existence of international money trails but do we know if they ever found anything?

I have no evidence that this was a sloppier and more casual crime than has been portrayed, but I think it’s a possibility.

 

[fadedglitter]

Something else: we know that the police are looking for the existence of international money trails but do we know if they ever found anything?

International money trails are expected for any murder victim who had a business with operations around the globe, personal real estate in at least one other country, and bank accounts in other countries.

 

[ldlager]

International money trails are expected for any murder victim who had a business with operations around the globe, personal real estate in at least one other country, and bank accounts in other countries.

I suspect that HS and BS aren’t the only Sherman family members whose international financial activities are being investigated by LE.

 

[wibbleflea]

I suspect that HS and BS aren’t the only Sherman family members whose international financial activities are being investigated by LE.

Agreed. It was this aspect I was referring to. Would like to know if this aspect of the investigation follows data suggesting a possible link with the murders or if it was being done because something may be revealed. I’m guessing the latter. I’m guessing it isn’t public knowledge but perhaps someone from the investigation or media has said something. KD has talked about information requested from various countries but it wasn’t clear to me whether this followed some existing evidence that just needed some corroboration.

 

[dotr]

2022 rbbm

Barry and Honey Sherman homicide detectives seek information in 5 countries

Detective Constable Dennis Yim would not name the countries in court, saying it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them.

www.thestar.com

''Toronto homicide detectives believe information in five countries may hold the key to who killed Barry and Honey Sherman, a Toronto court has heard.
“The bulk of the investigation so far has been in Canada, but it is taking on a bit of an international flair,” said Detective Constable Dennis Yim, the lone detective working full-time on the probe.''

''Yim told court during cross-examination that if he identified the countries publicly it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them. He also would not say if the countries are of interest because the suspect lives there, visits there, banks there or has some other connection. And, if the person is not the killer, Yim said he did not want to “prejudice” an innocent party by informing the public that people believed the person was involved in the murders''.

 

[wibbleflea]

2022 rbbm

Barry and Honey Sherman homicide detectives seek information in 5 countries

Detective Constable Dennis Yim would not name the countries in court, saying it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them.

www.thestar.com

''Toronto homicide detectives believe information in five countries may hold the key to who killed Barry and Honey Sherman, a Toronto court has heard.
“The bulk of the investigation so far has been in Canada, but it is taking on a bit of an international flair,” said Detective Constable Dennis Yim, the lone detective working full-time on the probe.''

''Yim told court during cross-examination that if he identified the countries publicly it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them. He also would not say if the countries are of interest because the suspect lives there, visits there, banks there or has some other connection. And, if the person is not the killer, Yim said he did not want to “prejudice” an innocent party by informing the public that people believed the person was involved in the murders''.

Thanks, @dotr. So, unless there’s more that we don’t know, they’re following hunches and looking at possibilities – there’s nothing firm leading them on.

 

[FromGermany1]

Agreed. It’s a tempting assumption and I see it in so many cases, including historical cold cases that have now been solved using genetic genealogy. In those cases, the killer’s planning was assumed by investigators to have been much cleverer and more knowledgeable than it was eventually revealed to be.

In this case, I’ve read (in the Star and in long-form articles elsewhere) and heard (in the two multi-episode podcasts, including KD’s) suggestions that the killer likely knew that key Apotex staff would be away (staff who would have raised the alarm about Barry’s absence at work), that the killer likely knew about an early return home for BS & HS that evening, and perhaps knew also about the absence of some of HS’s staff. These things may be relevant, but it’s not a given.

Something else: we know that the police are looking for the existence of international money trails but do we know if they ever found anything?

I have no evidence that this was a sloppier and more casual crime than has been portrayed, but I think it’s a possibility.

bbm
But who from outside should that be? In my eyes it doesn't make sense. MOO

 

[wibbleflea]

bbm
But who from outside should that be? In my eyes it doesn't make sense. MOO

I think the implication in the articles and podcasts was that the killer had extensive, detailed knowledge of the victims’ schedules and those of their close associates. And that is certainly a possibility.

But @fadeglitter made a point I agree with: it’s possible to unthinkingly attribute to the killer a level of knowledge and planning that he may not have possessed. He may not have known schedules in detail. He may not even have expected BS to be home. He may not have known or cared about the seemingly significant absences of key people. The initial police investigation was sloppy and made assumptions that may have unintentionally covered some of the killer’s mistakes.

There are many, many unsolved murders of people in their own homes. The Shermans were extraordinarily wealthy and had difficult personal and business relationships, but their home security didn’t even come close to being sufficient for their level of wealth. In that respect, this crime isn’t so different from other unsolved murders in its need for planning and knowledge. Many visitors, friends, former friends, former contractors, former staff – anyone who’d spent time in the house – would have known how easy it was to break in when one person was home and the alarm disabled. The house was on the market and prospective buyers had been shown around. Former visitors (like KW) knew all they needed to know without up-to-date information about schedules.

 

[FromGermany1]

I think the implication in the articles and podcasts was that the killer had extensive, detailed knowledge of the victims’ schedules and those of their close associates. And that is certainly a possibility.

But @fadeglitter made a point I agree with: it’s possible to unthinkingly attribute to the killer a level of knowledge and planning that he may not have possessed. He may not have known schedules in detail. He may not even have expected BS to be home. He may not have known or cared about the seemingly significant absences of key people. The initial police investigation was sloppy and made assumptions that may have unintentionally covered some of the killer’s mistakes.

There are many, many unsolved murders of people in their own homes. The Shermans were extraordinarily wealthy and had difficult personal and business relationships, but their home security didn’t even come close to being sufficient for their level of wealth. In that respect, this crime isn’t so different from other unsolved murders in its need for planning and knowledge. Many visitors, friends, former friends, former contractors, former staff – anyone who’d spent time in the house – would have known how easy it was to break in when one person was home and the alarm disabled. The house was on the market and prospective buyers had been shown around. Former visitors (like KW) knew all they needed to know without up-to-date information about schedules.

Apropos KW: KW could have had a reason to do it himself, BUT he could also have had a good reason for his presumtion, that no killer from outside was involved. MOO

 

[wibbleflea]

Apropos KW: KW could have had a reason to do it himself, BUT he could also have had a good reason for his presumtion, that no killer from outside was involved. MOO

Agreed. Barry was an absurdly intelligent person, achieving stellar academic results. That’s already unusual but he was also cunning and wily. A rare combination. In business, he took calculated risks that would have seemed crazy to others.

But in this case: why? A moment of anger? Or planned? And it would certainly have needed an accomplice if the findings of the second autopsy (missed in the first) are correct – that cable ties (or equivalent thin ligatures) were used. The first pathologist attended the second autopsy but if he has publicly stated his revised opinion, I’ve missed it.

 

[FromGermany1]

Agreed. Barry was an absurdly intelligent person, achieving stellar academic results. That’s already unusual but he was also cunning and wily. A rare combination. In business, he took calculated risks that would have seemed crazy to others.

But in this case: why? A moment of anger? Or planned? And it would certainly have needed an accomplice if the findings of the second autopsy (missed in the first) are correct – that cable ties (or equivalent thin ligatures) were used. The first pathologist attended the second autopsy but if he has publicly stated his revised opinion, I’ve missed it.

I would like to ask KW, who he thinks might have been a helper after the death of two Shermans. Who did make the thin wires (forensic evidence under the belts) or the cable ties (forensic evidence on the wrists) disappear? Who did lift BS up to the pool railing (with the belt)? Does KW have an idea? Does he have an idea, but wouldn't name a person out of respect?

Would "a helper" be an accomplice in a legal way? Idk.

 

[ldlager]

I would like to ask KW, who he thinks might have been a helper after the death of two Shermans. Who did make the thin wires (forensic evidence under the belts) or the cable ties (forensic evidence on the wrists) disappear? Who did lift BS up to the pool railing (with the belt)? Does KW have an idea? Does he have an idea, but wouldn't name a person out of respect?

Would "a helper" be an accomplice in a legal way? Idk.

No disrespect intended, but IMO the whole notion that Barry killed Honey and then enlisted an accomplice to kill him and then stage the bodies is beyond belief. Barry was a very smart, driven, financially successful man. But like the hugely vast majority of people in the world, he didn’t murder anyone.

 

[FromGermany1]

No disrespect intended, but IMO the whole notion that Barry killed Honey and then enlisted an accomplice to kill him and then stage the bodies is beyond belief. Barry was a very smart, driven, financially successful man. But like the hugely vast majority of people in the world, he didn’t murder anyone.

bbm
I mean: The helper didn't kill him; BS did it himself. The helper only staged the scene like BS wanted it (for his own reputation, means also the children's and Apotex' reputation).

MOO and speculation. (.... and then you may forget it)