CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[WINDSOR]

AndrewM71 said:
Am I the only one who thinks it was one person acting alone, and not a murder for hire?

This theory could imply,

• The Night Walker, was probably the killer, as it appears he was the only person near or at the residence at the time.
• Or if the Night Walker's presence was a coincidence and he had nothing to do with the murders, somebody else had to be in the house with the Sherman's.
• If there was only one person doing the killing, and he was an amateur (not hired) he had to be in good physical shape, probably younger than the Sherman's.
• He is likely some evil SOB. The killer spent several hours at the house, individually strangled two people. (Strangulation is a slow death, could be up to 5 minutes each). Then move the bodies, truss them up on the railing, and then leave. Make sure you have left no evidence that will lead to a quick arrest.
• This killer would have to be supremely confident or arrogant. To spend that much time at a crime scene, not panic, and have an excellent alibi if the TPS question him, is pretty amazing.
• Killers sometimes/often have a history of violence leading up to homicide. Did the Sherman's know anybody like that?

We do not know what DNA the TPS has collected. Since the bodies were extensively handled to stage them, there are only three scenarios regarding the DNA.

1) No unidentified DNA was found. The killer(s) wore hazmat type suits that did not allow transfer of DNA.
2) Identified DNA was found, which could mean the killer(s) were in the home previously. Possibly friends, family or workers.
3) Unidentified DNA was found. It will be compared with that of POI's.

 

[WINDSOR]

Somebody mentioned that there are people close to the case and Sherman's who have not been questioned by the TPS. Does this imply that the TPS has a prime suspect, and do not have to interview anybody else?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

This is ridiculous. Barry and Honey had a lot of interests, none of them included hockey. On the other hand, Jonathon plays hockey. This is a nice little rink for him and his friends. Wonderful amenities for the players and somewhere to eat afterwards.

I still find the change in position of names intentional, prior to deaths, most charity and publicity was Barry and Honey Sherman, both Jonathan and Alex name Honey first in their charitable works.

IMO that shows respect to their Mother, anything charity related was all about Honey and her hard work, money making was Barry’s role, that gave Barry love, admiration and power, the family members knew their place in the family dynamics.

Hmm makes one think, so many stories told that Honey did not get a long with her children, this makes me think otherwise. But do consider this could be unresolved relationship drama equaling guilt.

 

[fadedglitter]

Somebody mentioned that there are people close to the case and Sherman's who have not been questioned by the TPS. Does this imply that the TPS has a prime suspect, and do not have to interview anybody else?

The police have said several things without being clear about the extent of the overlap:

1. There are a few people they have not been able to interview. (Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’)
2. They were not able to interview the occupants of one of the homes near the Sherman house. They believe that address was unoccupied. (ITO 12)
3. They cannot find some people and believe they may have left the country. (Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’)

It is possible that all three of these statements refer to the next-door neighbours, who were not home at the time of the murders and have since moved away. (Video reveals ‘suspicious activity’ beside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home just before billionaires’ 2017 murders) It’s also possible there are others.


When the police released the walking man video, they were clear that the person was a suspect. They are now being more cute, refusing to say if they have a suspect. ‘I’m playing blind’ on who killed Barry and Honey Sherman, lead Toronto police detective admits

 

[ldlager]

That's interesting. To me it suggests that barry was strangled elswhere then brought down to the pool area and when placed in position the perpetrator used the vertical part of the railing to support Barry's back/body whilst they then placed the belt around the neck to pose the body.

I don’t understand why a killer would kill BS elsewhere in the house and then have to drag him to the side of the pool. It would be a lot simpler to just force him walk to the side of the pool,and kill him there.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Well what really didn't help is the fact that the senior investigator didn't even bother attending the scene. In the UK we call this a schoolboy error. In this case a schoolgirl error.

D-S Gomes attended the scene 4 days after the bodies were found. She attended the autopsies the day following the discovery.

 

[planet]

I don’t understand why a killer would kill BS elsewhere in the house and then have to drag him to the side of the pool. It would be a lot simpler to just force him walk to the side of the pool,and kill him there.

If I was the killer, my strategy would be to use lethal force on Barry at the first encounter, by surprise, to eliminate the risks of him:
-escaping
-calling 911
-making noise that neighbours might hear
-struggling with me (and potentially injuring, exhausting, or killing me)
-leaving loads of DNA and material evidence.

The longer he was alive, the greater the risks of one or more of these occurring.

Dragging a dead body might be exhausting, but it's more reliable than trying to position an alive, struggling, yelling male in a basement room with a large body of water in the middle surrounded by a perimeter of decking. If Barry had been alive and struggling, the chances of him or both going into that pool are not zero.

The immense risk the killer took was to position both bodies together, in a room that was likely a different location from where he (I assume) killed them. That is, to me, non-sensical, unless he had a good reason, he was extremely confident that no one would enter the home, and he had the strength and stamina to position both bodies there. Even so, the likelihood of leaving DNA or other evidence grew the more he moved about the house with bodies. It did not seem to be an "in and out" methodical killing because of the positioning of those bodies.

I don't know what to make of that. I find it bizarre. I couldn't conclude from my interpretation that it was a hired job or a person known to them--there's just no way of knowing.

 

[INSP MORSE]

D-S Gomes attended the scene 4 days after the bodies were found. She attended the autopsies the day following the discovery.

Yeah 4 days after!!

 

[INSP MORSE]

D-S Gomes attended the scene 4 days after the bodies were found. She attended the autopsies the day following the discovery.

Everyone knows the first 48 hours are critical. As for the autopsy she didn't co tribute anything to that either. The case wouldn't be in the crap it is now if it wasnt for her.

 

[FromGermany1]

AndrewM71 said:
Am I the only one who thinks it was one person acting alone, and not a murder for hire?

This theory could imply,

• The Night Walker, was probably the killer, as it appears he was the only person near or at the residence at the time.
• Or if the Night Walker's presence was a coincidence and he had nothing to do with the murders, somebody else had to be in the house with the Sherman's.
• If there was only one person doing the killing, and he was an amateur (not hired) he had to be in good physical shape, probably younger than the Sherman's.
• He is likely some evil SOB. The killer spent several hours at the house, individually strangled two people. (Strangulation is a slow death, could be up to 5 minutes each). Then move the bodies, truss them up on the railing, and then leave. Make sure you have left no evidence that will lead to a quick arrest.
• This killer would have to be supremely confident or arrogant. To spend that much time at a crime scene, not panic, and have an excellent alibi if the TPS question him, is pretty amazing.
• Killers sometimes/often have a history of violence leading up to homicide. Did the Sherman's know anybody like that?

We do not know what DNA the TPS has collected. Since the bodies were extensively handled to stage them, there are only three scenarios regarding the DNA.

1) No unidentified DNA was found. The killer(s) wore hazmat type suits that did not allow transfer of DNA.
2) Identified DNA was found, which could mean the killer(s) were in the home previously. Possibly friends, family or workers.
3) Unidentified DNA was found. It will be compared with that of POI's.

bbm
I think, at Apotex there were hazmat type suits in stock and were used ..... Did the NW (helper in my eyes) carry a folded suit under his winter coat? It should have been possible. MOO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Everyone knows the first 248 hours are critical. As for the autopsy she didn't co tribute anything to that either. The case wouldn't be in the crap it is now if it wasnt for her.

You wrote that she ‘never’ attended the crime scene. She did.

D-S Brandon Price was at the scene on the day the bodies were discovered. As were a phalanx of officers and investigative experts, including a pathologist. About 36 hours had passed between the time of the murders and the discovery of the remains. So the killer(s) had a head start.

We have no idea what D-S (eta:Gomes) contributed during the autopsy. I’m not sure where you’re getting that.

 

[INSP MORSE]

You wrote that she ‘never’ attended the crime scene. She did.

D-S Brandon Price was at the scene on the day the bodies were discovered. As were a phalanx of officers and investigative experts, including a pathologist. About 36 hours had passed between the time of the murders and the discovery of the remains. So the killer(s) had a head start.

We have no idea what D-S contributed during the autopsy. I’m not sure where you’re getting that.

DS Brandon Price is a male not female. Gomez was the senior officer and SHE didn't attend the scene for 4 days.

 

[dotr]

No idea about Velcro. I might have seen it somewhere (it is a world-known case, after all), or it might be me reading "velcro zip-ties: in the description of many cases. ETA. People posted, "zip ties". I just realized that I never knew what zip ties were. Just never matched the name with the item. Hence, I used Velcro.

It is (plausible) speculation that the Shermans were each strangled with a zip-tie like item, but it could have been velcro...speculation, fwiw.

velcro stripextra strength - Google Search

 

[Lexiintoronto]

DS Brandon Price is a male not female. Gomez was the senior officer and SHE didn't attend the scene for 4 days.

I didn’t write that D-S Price is female. I’m aware of D-S Gomes’s role.

 

[Jazzy5980]

What is your theory then?

I live in the US and don’t follow the case regularly. I don’t have a theory other than that I think a professional murdered the Shermans.

 

[Charlot123]

bbm
I think, at Apotex there were hazmat type suits in stock and were used ..... Did the NW (helper in my eyes) carry a folded suit under his winter coat? It should have been possible. MOO

You know, I remember the opinion of Apotek products left in “large and uninhibited SM”. The author said something about the quality control of Apotek products calling them “cr@@y” and saying that some of them looked “as if they were pressed in Barry’s basement”. Now, it was probably a metaphor but I think Barry could keep hazmat suits at home.

 

[Charlot123]

It is (plausible) speculation that the Shermans were each strangled with a zip-tie like item, but it could have been velcro...speculation, fwiw.
View attachment 639374

velcro stripextra strength - Google Search

I think it was something thinner, otherwise the traces of the original material would not be covered by the belts (and they were).

 

[Charlot123]

Am I the only one who thinks it was one person acting alone, and not a murder for hire?

I think it is quite likely, only the for the lone murderer, it was not his first rodeo.

I also think, given the body position, that it could have some elements of a hate crime.

Now, there was a version that Holly was the target because she “had a big mouth on her” and used derogatory terms for certain ethnoreligious groups. I don’t believe that such a group targeted her. I just think that the murderer was well-known, visited their house and killed for own reason…but he was jealous of rich people, and probably, racist per se. Not from Holly’s ethnicity. So he killed them for one reasons, but “hanging” was the sign of his “hate” to their group.

 

[fadedglitter]

I think it was something thinner, otherwise the traces of the original material would not be covered by the belts (and they were).

We can estimate the width of the soft ligature: it is approximately the width of the edge of a leather belt. This is from Donovan’s book, quoting his source “Zero” describing Chaisson’s findings in the earliest days:

“What he found was that they were strangled with something soft, as in a belt is soft. Or maybe something else, but most likely the belt.”

The “maybe something else” has morphed into an additional ligature that would have needed to be removed. Maybe the killer used one belt to kill both of them, then to suspend Honey? We just do not know. Barry’s own belt was used to suspend him; it’s implausible to imagine the killer took it off him while alive.

UPDATED TO ADD: and this is also from Donovan’s book, but from the description of Pickup’s autopsy, performed just before Chaisson’s:
“Just because they were found with belts around their necks did not necessarily mean those were the instruments by which they died. However, the belts had been brought from the death scene, and by making a comparison to the markings on each neck it seemed likely that they were the ligatures used.”