CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[INSP MORSE]

If i5 was just about ki

I think the fundamental question is in your post: Why would the killer even move the bodies (to any room) and expose himself to multiple risks? (e.g. Leaving more evidence about the house, exhausting or injuring himself en route, and extending time in the house).

I posed that question earlier, differently: Why not just leave the bodies where they had fallen? The more you move bodies, the more complex the scene becomes. The pool room as a choice is complex: a basement room, requires careful maneuvering, creates risk of losing a body in the water or getting wet. But the more puzzling question is why they were moved at all.

If I came to a house with the intent to kill a couple, I would do everything to minimize my risks. In and out quickly, with no moving of bodies.

I'm familiar with discussions about possible staging of the crime scene (misdirection) and posing of bodies. I just find it a very strange risk calculus to make.

If it was about only ending their life then yes. But the perpetrator has to think about what the crime scene looks like to the police and who it might or might not point the finger at regarding the perpetrator. Also factor in any hate of the victims which will or may cause the perpetrator to do more than the bare minimum of just murder.

 

[WINDSOR]

If i5 was just about ki

If it was about only ending their life then yes. But the perpetrator has to think about what the crime scene looks like to the police and who it might or might not point the finger at regarding the perpetrator. Also factor in any hate of the victims which will or may cause the perpetrator to do more than the bare minimum of just murder.

I believe there are several possible reasons to stage the bodies. Acknowledging that staging increases the risk and effort involved in committing the crime.

The staging could be a means to confuse and muddle the investigation and has no meaning beyond that.

Or it is some sort of message to friends and family, or possibly the world at large about the deceased.

Or the staging could be a message of arrogance from the perpetrator, saying 'see how powerful and smart I am'. I could kill these rich people in their home, stage their bodies and not get caught.

Or a combination of all three messages.

I strongly believe if the message is decrypted, the the perpetrator will identified.

Possible clue, is there any among the Sherman family, friends and associates who are into puzzles, riddles and cryptic mysteries?


MOO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe there are several possible reasons to stage the bodies. Acknowledging that staging increases the risk and effort involved in committing the crime.

The staging could be a means to confuse and muddle the investigation and has no meaning beyond that.

Or it is some sort of message to friends and family, or possibly the world at large about the deceased.

Or the staging could be a message of arrogance from the perpetrator, saying 'see how powerful and smart I am'. I could kill these rich people in their home, stage their bodies and not get caught.

Or a combination of all three messages.

I strongly believe if the message is decrypted, the the perpetrator will identified.

Possible clue, is there any among the Sherman family, friends and associates who are into puzzles, riddles and cryptic mysteries?


MOO

KD said that Honey’s two best friends liked true crime shows, they mentioned that to him. (One is now deceased.) I’m pretty sure it was in his podcast.

 

[WINDSOR]

KD said that Honey’s two best friends liked true crime shows, they mentioned that to him. (One is now deceased.) I’m pretty sure it was in his podcast.

Lot of us like true crime shows.

I would tend to be interested in people who like solve or create riddles, puzzles, secret messages and similar mind challenges. Possibly as well they are into symbolic meanings of things and events.

The whole pool staging, on the surface seems bizarre to me, and nobody as far as I know has come up a good explanation for the reason it was created. The fact the symbolic message is not obvious to many of us, could mean that the person who planned the staging see themselves as deep thinkers, and intellectually gifted.

MOO

 

[hexicon]

My personal take is that there isn't any particular symbolism in the staging, despite the odd coincidence with the junk statues. In my view, the killer was a hired pro and part of the plan was to stage the appearance of a dual suicide or M/S, even though the killers likely understood that the fiction would not hold up forever.

I think the pool was more convenient because he likely accosted and killed Barry in the basement and it was easier to move Honey downstairs than Barry upstairs. My personal theory is that there was more than one killer in the house but if WM was the only perp then the difficulty of moving the bodies would definitely have been a factor in the staging. I'm not sure whether there are any other spots in the house that would have allowed for staging a double hanging without the risk that the bodies would be visible from a window or door. I'm thinking of that big staircase. (I know determined suicides can hang themselves from just about anything but a person setting a scene might not want to rely on a door knob.)

Using the pool room for the staging also would potentially postpone the discovery a bit more than staging on the main floor or upstairs. As we know, the killers had an unexpected stroke of luck, as they likely expected them to be found at some point on Thursday.

 

[INSP MORSE]

My personal take is that there isn't any particular symbolism in the staging, despite the odd coincidence with the junk statues. In my view, the killer was a hired pro and part of the plan was to stage the appearance of a dual suicide or M/S, even though the killers likely understood that the fiction would not hold up forever.

I think the pool was more convenient because he likely accosted and killed Barry in the basement and it was easier to move Honey downstairs than Barry upstairs. My personal theory is that there was more than one killer in the house but if WM was the only perp then the difficulty of moving the bodies would definitely have been a factor in the staging. I'm not sure whether there are any other spots in the house that would have allowed for staging a double hanging without the risk that the bodies would be visible from a window or door. I'm thinking of that big staircase. (I know determined suicides can hang themselves from just about anything but a person setting a scene might not want to rely on a door knob.)

Using the pool room for the staging also would potentially postpone the discovery a bit more than staging on the main floor or upstairs. As we know, the killers had an unexpected stroke of luck, as they likely expected them to be found at some point on Thursday.

A professional hit would not know that the pool area cameras weren't in operation unless insider information such as a family member or someone extremely close to the shermans told them.

 

[fadedglitter]

A professional hit would not know that the pool area cameras weren't in operation unless insider information such as a family member or someone extremely close to the shermans told them.

The murderer either:
1. Knew the camera didn’t work (had spoken with someone in the family, maybe visited the home) or
2. Did not know the camera didn’t work, but wasn’t concerned (face covering) or
3. Did not notice the camera (busy staging two corpses and not super aware of surroundings).

For all we know the non-functioning camera was a well-known story: “MY parents didn’t watch us while we played in the pool; they set up a CC camera and then NEVER HOOKED IT UP HAR DE HAR HAR…” I can imagine that sort of thing as the spoiled kid’s version of “when *I* was a kid…”

 

[dotr]

The staging by the pool (now a puzzle), elicited some of these reactions at first.. Reminded of a certain type of 'frat bro' playing nasty games in the guise of clever pranks.
Different from, but not unlike the former Col., Russell Williams, back in the day.
Shock, (nobody expected to be at the pool), least of all H & B.
Insult, to the potential buyers, a macabre Halloween joke.
Fear, 'a sinister omen''
speculation.

Colonel Russell Williams: The making of a mystery man

Canadians wonder how Russell Williams, a decorated and fast-rising air-force commander, can be the same person accused of murdering two young women

www.theglobeandmail.com

'Apr 17, 2010 — During his undergraduate years, the young man's pranks were the stuff of legend. He hid in dark closets so he could leap out and surprise.. .'
''Everything - her desk, her computer and her chair - had vanished beneath a tangled mess of white paper that filled the room from floor to ...''
2010

Col. Russell Williams: A serial killer like none police have seen

He seemed successful and happy, yet at 44 he embarked on a life of crime that escalated from panty fetish to murder. To the experts, Col. Russell Williams seems a walking Jekyll and Hyde.

www.thestar.com

A fellow boarder at the college remembers Williams being locked in his room by other students as a prank. The boarder, who asked not to be identified, says Williams got out by tying together bed sheets and climbing out the window.
At the University of Toronto, where he was known as a prankster, Williams graduated with a degree in politics and economics.''
2018

Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank

The Toronto real estate agent who found the bodies of billionaire drug czar Barry Sherman and his wife Honey thought the scene was a Halloween hangover.

torontosun.com

“This is a joke, something left over from Halloween,” the agent told CBC News, asking the network not to identify him.''
“It was scary,” he said.
The agent said he and his Chinese clients were surprised by the grim scene but didn’t believe the bodies were real''.
''According to the agent, his wealthy clients were less than pleased by the macabre sight that greeted them on Old Colony Rd.
“They were angry,” the agent said, adding the couple were superstitious and feared the sick scene was a sinister omen''

 

[ldlager]

A professional hit would not know that the pool area cameras weren't in operation unless insider information such as a family member or someone extremely close to the shermans told them.

Or they or someone working with them had toured the house (perhaps posing as potential buyers) and figured out or were told that the cameras were inoperative. Of course, the contractors working in the house could have found this out also.