CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[FromGermany1]

That scenario makes the case fall apart in court when defense counsel reveals that TPS had evidence pointing toward someone else and failed to investigate or even accept the tip.

Cops have to act on tips. This is one of the reasons they’re not fond of rewards: a slew of low-quality tips swamps investigative resources that could be directed to more promising areas.

The hierarchy within the police force would be the problem (if I am to believe TV crime dramas). MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

The hierarchy within the police force would be the problem (if I am to believe TV crime dramas). MOO

TV crime dramas are misleading even in their portrayal of US court matters. Canadian courts are even further from what you’ll see on TV.

You can step into your local courthouse any day of the week to see how Canadian courts function. I highly recommend it to anyone interested in the court system.

 

[WINDSOR]

Going back to the increase of the reward by $25 million to $35 million by JS in 2022, five years after the deaths of Honey and Barry.

In my world $10 million, even in Canadian dollars is a a substantial sum. By raising it by another $25 million, the case surely got media attention. JS likely increased the reward because he wanted to entice someone to talk and solve the crime.

Why has nobody come forward with relevant information? (I am assuming nobody has.) People who know for example who the Night Walker is, are afraid to talk, or do not know there is a reward.

What if the Night Walker is dead? Nobody to identify, nobody to charge, no reward to be paid.

 

[fadedglitter]

Going back to the increase of the reward by $25 million to $35 million by JS in 2022, five years after the deaths of Honey and Barry.

In my world $10 million, even in Canadian dollars is a a substantial sum. By raising it by another $25 million, the case surely got media attention. JS likely increased the reward because he wanted to entice someone to talk and solve the crime.

Why has nobody come forward with relevant information? (I am assuming nobody has.) People who know for example who the Night Walker is, are afraid to talk, or do not know there is a reward.

What if the Night Walker is dead? Nobody to identify, nobody to charge, no reward to be paid.

The details about who’s eligible to claim JS’s $25M have always been murky to me. The initial $10M offer led to a ton of complications about who was eligible and what telephone infrastructure would be established to accept tips. In true Canadian style, a committee was established. All of that was discontinued later but the reward remains and was increased in 2022.

The original reward was for up to $10M for information leading to the apprehension and prosecution of the killer. Presumably this excludes payment if the killer is dead and cannot be apprehended or prosecuted. But when it’s all extra zeros, perhaps the family would be willing to reward a person who came forward with compelling information a deceased person is responsible. It’s also possible that the killer is already serving a life sentence and won’t be prosecuted. This again would appear to be a situation that wouldn’t be eligible for the reward. Ultimately it’s the family’s money and they can decide how to use it.

 

[ldlager]

The details about who’s eligible to claim JS’s $25M have always been murky to me. The initial $10M offer led to a ton of complications about who was eligible and what telephone infrastructure would be established to accept tips. In true Canadian style, a committee was established. All of that was discontinued later but the reward remains and was increased in 2022.

The original reward was for up to $10M for information leading to the apprehension and prosecution of the killer. Presumably this excludes payment if the killer is dead and cannot be apprehended or prosecuted. But when it’s all extra zeros, perhaps the family would be willing to reward a person who came forward with compelling information a deceased person is responsible. It’s also possible that the killer is already serving a life sentence and won’t be prosecuted. This again would appear to be a situation that wouldn’t be eligible for the reward. Ultimately it’s the family’s money and they can decide how to use it.

Yes it’s the family’s money. And I am NOT belittling or denigrating their creating the existing $25 million reward.. But frankly, the four children likely inherited a total in excess of $5 billion. A reward of $35 million is less than 1% of what was inherited.
I would have thought that the family could have dramatically increased the reward by now. Even 5% of their inheritance would represent a reward of about $250 million. And I think this increased amount, combined with some publicity, and clear and achievable parameters on how to collect, could make a huge difference and could influence someone to come forward.
Again, no criticism of the family, but I believe this is something they should consider. IMO

 

[al66pine]

Terms/Conditions of Offer of Reward?

The details about who’s eligible to claim JS’s $25M have always been murky to me. The initial $10M offer led to a ton of complications about who was eligible and what telephone infrastructure would be established to accept tips. In true Canadian style, a committee was established. All of that was discontinued later but the reward remains and was increased in 2022.

The original reward was for up to $10M for information leading to the apprehension and prosecution of the killer. Presumably this excludes payment if the killer is dead and cannot be apprehended or prosecuted. But when it’s all extra zeros, perhaps the family would be willing to reward a person who came forward with compelling information a deceased person is responsible. It’s also possible that the killer is already serving a life sentence and won’t be prosecuted. This again would appear to be a situation that wouldn’t be eligible for the reward. Ultimately it’s the family’s money and they can decide how to use it.

@fadedglitter
Thx for your post, which included this: "The original reward was for up to $10M for information leading to the apprehension and prosecution of the killer."

Wondering if the original or any of the subsequent rewards were for -
--- apprehension and prosecution or
--- for apprehension and conviction.

May or may not make a difference in luring someone to come forward. IDK.

"

 

[Bigditch]

It is quite natural to seek the motive of a crime, assuming that once you discover the motive you will discover the perpetrator(s).

Motives can help but are not necessary to solving crimes. Simplistically, the motive was, somebody wanted Sherman's dead. Why and for what reason or purpose is intellectually gratifying to know, but not that important to solving the who did it.

For a moment let us suppose the Walking Man, was the sole assailant. If he was hired by someone, or had his own reasons for wanting the Sherman's dead does make much difference at this point to identifying who he is. Until we know who he is, this crime will not be solved.

Since the Walking Man has not been publicly identified, chances are are slim at this point in time he will ever be, unless someone comes forward and talks to the Police. Sadly the $35 million reward has not brought forward valid information.



MOO

Reminds me of the walking man figure in the Spencer and Monique Tepa murders.

 

[Bigditch]

The hierarchy within the police force would be the problem (if I am to believe TV crime dramas). MOO

Interesting you say that considering the hot water Toronto PD is currently in.

 

[fadedglitter]

The reporting on Greenspan’s announcement was similar to this:

Greenspan announced the offer of the reward for “the apprehension and prosecution of those responsible for the murders” along with a dedicated call centre to receive tips. Its phone number is 1-833-668-0001, and an international number is 011-905-849-7373, he said.

And here’s the CBC, on the additional $25M:


"Closure will not be possible until those responsible for this evil act are brought to justice," Jonathon Sherman said in a statement shared exclusively with CBC Toronto.

To that end, Sherman said he's contributing an additional $25 million to the reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction. This brings the total reward to $35 million.

The Sherman family had previously offered a $10-million reward for information leading to a conviction.


There’s definitely a switch to “conviction”. This may simply reflect the family’s growing awareness that the reward had led to a gigantic pile of tips, and that conviction was going to be far more difficult than receiving a tip.

 

[al66pine]

The reporting on Greenspan’s announcement was similar to this:

Greenspan announced the offer of the reward for “the apprehension and prosecution of those responsible for the murders” along with a dedicated call centre to receive tips. Its phone number is 1-833-668-0001, and an international number is 011-905-849-7373, he said.

And here’s the CBC, on the additional $25M:


"Closure will not be possible until those responsible for this evil act are brought to justice," Jonathon Sherman said in a statement shared exclusively with CBC Toronto.

To that end, Sherman said he's contributing an additional $25 million to the reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction. This brings the total reward to $35 million.

The Sherman family had previously offered a $10-million reward for information leading to a conviction.


There’s definitely a switch to “conviction”. This may simply reflect the family’s growing awareness that the reward had led to a gigantic pile of tips, and that conviction was going to be far more difficult than receiving a tip.

@fadedglitter
Thanks for the quote and link.
I appreciate the clarification.

 

[WINDSOR]

Too bad the TPS does not hold press conferences regarding this case anymore.

Someone could ask.................
Is the tip line for the reward is still open?
Has the TPS finished investigating all the tips they have received to-date?
Have the tips received been of any value?
Is the TPS still encouraging people to provide tips?
Since there may be an overseas connection to this case, is the TPS in any way asking for tips overseas?

​

 

[WINDSOR]

Authorities say leaked police data was used to facilitate shootings, drug trafficking and an attempted murder of an Ontario corrections manager​

7 Toronto police officers charged in corruption case tied to plot to kill corrections manager

Authorities say leaked police data was used to facilitate shootings, drug trafficking and an attempted murder of an Ontario corrections manager

www.police1.com

Reading the revelations of the the TPS officers who have been arrested in the huge corruption scandal, is quite scary.

What even compounds the issue is the corruption was discovered by a police force outside Toronto. The TPS's own internal affairs department appears to have had no idea what was happening AFAIK.

Maybe the TPS should be more open and forthcoming in all matters, especially with public information. When things are covered up and 'held close to the vest', usually the evil doers are protected.
MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

Too bad the TPS does not hold press conferences regarding this case anymore.

Someone could ask.................
Is the tip line for the reward is still open?
Has the TPS finished investigating all the tips they have received to-date?
Have the tips received been of any value?
Is the TPS still encouraging people to provide tips?
Since there may be an overseas connection to this case, is the TPS in any way asking for tips overseas?

​

Is the tip line for the reward is still open?

Answer: Inspector Idsinga said at a press conference in 2019 that he believed it was offline.

Has the TPS finished investigating all the tips they have received to-date?

Answer: this task will never end because as tips come in they need to be investigated. It could be “done” one day and the next day another tip could arrive and need to be investigated.

Have the tips received been of any value?

Answer: we have not heard that any of the tips were of value.

Is the TPS still encouraging people to provide tips?

Answer: yes, directly to TPS.

Since there may be an overseas connection to this case, is the TPS in any way asking for tips overseas?

Answer: yes, every time they are asked about the case. I’m drawing a distinction between “tips” and the formal requests they have made to other countries.

 

[WINDSOR]

Is the tip line for the reward is still open?

Answer: Inspector Idsinga said at a press conference in 2019 that he believed it was offline.

Has the TPS finished investigating all the tips they have received to-date?

Answer: this task will never end because as tips come in they need to be investigated. It could be “done” one day and the next day another tip could arrive and need to be investigated.

Have the tips received been of any value?

Answer: we have not heard that any of the tips were of value.

Is the TPS still encouraging people to provide tips?

Answer: yes, directly to TPS.

Since there may be an overseas connection to this case, is the TPS in any way asking for tips overseas?

Answer: yes, every time they are asked about the case. I’m drawing a distinction between “tips” and the formal requests they have made to other countries.

fadeglitter, I appreciate your answers.
Am I correct in assuming the responses you gave, are not from the TPS, but rather your view? They are likely accurate, however I believe the TPS, especially now when their honesty, and credibility is in question, should make every effort to be open and forthright.

The TPS has been extremely reluctant to share information or have involvement with the media and the public. In fact the TPS has fought against disclosure in the courts. Yet the case still remains unsolved after 8 years. Maybe the TPS should accept the fact their approach to solving this crime has not worked and they should evolve their strategy.

BTW, the case listing for Barry or Honey does not mention the reward.

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/case/65/2017/

MOO

 

[dotr]

This case is not yet considered 'cold,' but judging by the cold cases i have followed here, the TPS cold case team are top notch, fwiw, imo.

 

[fadedglitter]

fadeglitter, I appreciate your answers.
Am I correct in assuming the responses you gave, are not from the TPS, but rather your view? They are likely accurate, however I believe the TPS, especially now when their honesty, and credibility is in question, should make every effort to be open and forthright.

The TPS has been extremely reluctant to share information or have involvement with the media and the public. In fact the TPS has fought against disclosure in the courts. Yet the case still remains unsolved after 8 years. Maybe the TPS should accept the fact their approach to solving this crime has not worked and they should evolve their strategy.

BTW, the case listing for Barry or Honey does not mention the reward.

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/case/65/2017/

MOO

All of the answers to your questions above are directly from TPS and in alignment with how police and courts operate in Canada.

I suppose I could add something to the answer to your question about whether any of the tips were “of value”. TPS has never made a comment about this except to say years ago they wanted to be sure they had everything that had come in: they asked that tipsters re-submit anything they’d provided to the private team. “Value” isn’t a word investigators would usually use.

Usually a tip that has any value at all leads to an interview or document production or analysis that provides the information that is truly of value, either because it confirms or tends to disprove other information. A tip may lead in unexpected directions. The last we heard, Yim told the court he believed there is nothing that could be unsealed that would lead a member of the public to come forward with information. The tree is too big to shake. That’s not to say no tips could be of value; I increasingly believe this case will be solved when someone else dies or is arrested and new information comes forward in the course of investigating that other matter.