CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Bobbi Pearl]

I watched this episode on TV a few weeks ago. The murderer who was there to steal and ended up killing the occupant and then in a quick and short period of time staging as a suicide by hanging as he had seen on a forensics show. He left little to no DNA.

Shelly's death in 2006 was initially determined by police to be suicide; her husband's insistence on a re-evaluation brought her killer to justice.

Adrienne Shelly - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

With the lack of true facts we know, stranger things can happen and for all we know this could have been a robber high on drugs and lucky enough to not have left any DNA that could prove anything.

 

[WINDSOR]

I agree sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. BUT US trials happen much faster than in Canada, and yet in Idaho they feel they have a case solid enough after just 7 weeks ( 49 days) to make an arrest. 5 years is a long time- over 1800 days. Just saying.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but comparing one isolated case in the USA to the Sherman case is really not a valid or useful comparison.

Yes US trials happen much quicker; <modsnip - political discussion not allowed>

Currently in the USA there are over 200,000 cold cases in the USA. One of the most famous one is the Jon Benet Ramsey case, which has been unsolved since 1996.

Unsolved Murders By State | Uncovered

uncovered.com

I will make a friendly wager that the Sherman case will be resolved before the Jon Benet case.

 

[ldlager]

I am not trying to be argumentative, but comparing one isolated case in the USA to the Sherman case is really not a valid or useful comparison.

Yes US trials happen much quicker; <modsnip - political discussion not allowed>

Currently in the USA there are over 200,000 cold cases in the USA. One of the most famous one is the Jon Benet Ramsey case, which has been unsolved since 1996.

Unsolved Murders By State | Uncovered

uncovered.com

I will make a friendly wager that the Sherman case will be resolved before the Jon Benet case.

windsor, I don’t want to take your money.,lol. Unfortunately it appears to me that neither case will be solved anytime soon.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wondering if the ''twist'' of the belts in the S murders revealed which direction the fibers twisted and if the perp was left or right handed?
Reminded of an execution, imo, speculation, fwiw.

PRIME PubMed | [Hanging: suicide or homicide?]

Death by Hanging: Suicide or Homicide. Six cases of homicidal hanging and murder presented as suicidal hanging are recorded. Suspension followed strangulation by ligature or throttling and head injuries in 4 cases. Distinction between homicide and suicide was easy in 5 cases: two of the...

wwww.unboundmedicine.com

''Unless the victim is an infant or an adult person incapacitated by drink, disease, or drugs, or unless there are several assailants murder is difficult to accomplish. Distinction between murder and suicide may be impossible by an examination of the body alone. Detailed investigation of the scene, reconstruction of the position of the suspended body, examination of the rope, the knots, the direction of the fibres on the rope may serve to discover homicidal hanging.''

Japanese media get tour of death chamber

Japanese media are allowed into a prison execution chamber, in a move that may stir public debate on the death penalty.

www.bbc.com

View attachment 394337
Local TV stations broadcast footage showing the room where death row inmates are hanged.
View attachment 394339

The Toronto Star
Sherman crime scene photos ...

The photo you posted of the death chamber reminded me of the entrance of the Shermans’ pool room. All the glass and the starkness of the image.


Photo from: Sherman family investigators hand over earring and other evidence collected at murdered billionaires’ home to Toronto police

 

[dotr]

The photo you posted of the death chamber reminded me of the entrance of the Shermans’ pool room. All the glass and the starkness of the image.
View attachment 394580

Photo from: Sherman family investigators hand over earring and other evidence collected at murdered billionaires’ home to Toronto police

Exactly why i posted it, had hoped someone would pick up on that!

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Exactly why i posted it, had hoped someone would pick up on that!

I missed that, I thought you were relating Japan, there greatly published manner of execution as hanging, JS's visit where he learned how to transfer cryptocurrency and a possible hitman from Japan are what came to my mind?

I really appreciated your question about the manner in which the belt were tied / looped. Is this a clue that can be traced? is it done in a way like navy or army training would teach you. were both identically originally tied? as well as does it indicate left of right handed.

IMO the reason HS is not in a sitting position identical to BS is that during the rigor process the body slid. I have thought this was possibly how they know HS was dead longer than BS. That her rigor was in more advanced stages.

 

[JDG]

IIRC, the Sherman’s were found approx. 36 hours after their deaths.

IIRC, the Sherman’s were ‘posed’ to resemble the art in the hallway.

The art pieces were posed differently, not the same.

Its highly unlikely that a body slid during rigor mortis, as it is stiff.

Rigor mortis is complete at approx. 12 hours and wanes at approx 24-30 hrs after death.

IF his body ’slid’, it would be when rigor mortis had ended.

The pathologists would have made a determination of death times according to the state of the bodies.

 

[JDG]

As per the earlier comment about Honey being ‘pushed down the stairs…’ she did not have any injuries, IIRC, that would indicate she was pushed down the stairs. There was a small pool of blood and some facial markings.

IMO, both Sherman’s were likely killed, very close in time, together.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

IIRC, the Sherman’s were found approx. 36 hours after their deaths.

IIRC, the Sherman’s were ‘posed’ to resemble the art in the hallway.

The art pieces were posed differently, not the same.

Its highly unlikely that a body slid during rigor mortis, as it is stiff.

Rigor mortis is complete at approx. 12 hours and wanes at approx 24-30 hrs after death.

IF his body ’slid’, it would be when rigor mortis had ended.

The pathologists would have made a determination of death times according to the state of the bodies.

yes to clarify I meant as her body completed the entire rigor process and was more limp/flexible than BS was at the time of first close inspection.

Both bodies were removed in a flat position so when they were finally removed from the home they both had completed enough of the process to lay flat.

36 hours has been the suggested length of time between death and found, since it is the same timing for rigor to complete IMO when they arrived rigor was finished on HS and she was more "limp" and just completing for BS where he held a little stiffness in his body still.

 

[newclues]

yes to clarify I meant as her body completed the entire rigor process and was more limp/flexible than BS was at the time of first close inspection.

Both bodies were removed in a flat position so when they were finally removed from the home they both had completed enough of the process to lay flat.

36 hours has been the suggested length of time between death and found, since it is the same timing for rigor to complete IMO when they arrived rigor was finished on HS and she was more "limp" and just completing for BS where he held a little stiffness in his body still.

Is it possible that HS's feet were originally crossed like BS's feet were but had come apart by then due to loss of rigor?

 

[JDG]

yes to clarify I meant as her body completed the entire rigor process and was more limp/flexible than BS was at the time of first close inspection.

Both bodies were removed in a flat position so when they were finally removed from the home they both had completed enough of the process to lay flat.

36 hours has been the suggested length of time between death and found, since it is the same timing for rigor to complete IMO when they arrived rigor was finished on HS and she was more "limp" and just completing for BS where he held a little stiffness in his body still.

Do you have a link for who was in what amount of rigor mortis when removed?

I do not recall that detail being made public. Tx

The forensic pathologists have numerous ways to determine time of death other than/as well as rigor mortis.

 

[dotr]

Nov 25, 2019,

re-post​

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

An excerpt from Kevin Donovan's new book on the life and death of Barry Sherman, billionaire founder of Canadian pharmaceutical company Apotex, and his wife, Honey.

www.forbes.com

Nov 25, 2019

''An Excerpt from The Billionaire Murders by Kevin Donovan​

On the morning of Friday, December 15, 2017, Barry Sherman, multi-billionaire founder of Canadian pharmaceutical company Apotex and well-known philanthropist, was discovered in the basement of his 12,000-square-foot home in Toronto, in a seated position, legs outstretched, the right leg crossed neatly over the left, his back to the lap pool. He was wearing his glasses, perched undisturbed on his nose. His bomber-style jacket was pulled slightly off his shoulders and down, which held his arms at his sides. Beside him, Honey, his wife of forty-seven years, known as the “queen” of Toronto’s Jewish community, was in a similar position, the light coat she wore also pulled off her shoulders, holding her hands at her sides. They were both VSA, paramedic and police code for “vital signs absent.” A quick estimate by the paramedics suggested the couple had been dead for at least a day if not more. Rigor mortis, the condition where the muscles stiffen after death, had passed, and the limbs were relaxed and limp.

The reason they were still in a sitting position and had not slumped over or tipped back into the pool was that each of the Shermans had a man’s leather belt around their neck that was tied above their head to the three-foot-high stainless steel railing around the end of the lap pool. Both were fully dressed, their coats over top of clothes they had worn that day. Barry’s face was untouched; Honey’s was damaged, but by what was unclear. Barry was seventy-five when he died; Honey was seventy.''

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

In an exclusive look at the first stage of the high profile double murder case, the Toronto Star has gained access to police statements and interviews after a nearly three-year long court battle.

www.thestar.com

Nov 2020
''Toronto Fire Department arrived first after the 11:44 a.m. call. A firefighter noted “they were blue in colour with obvious signs of rigor mortis.” Police arrived a little later, at 11:54 a.m.''

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Is it possible that HS's feet were originally crossed like BS's feet were but had come apart by then due to loss of rigor?

I am not an expert in this area and IMO I really do not know if we have a true depiction of how they were found. The original reports with the coats still on the bodies and slid down the arms like a straight jacket to immobilize the arms and possible movements was the topic for a while.

Now a hand drawn depiction based on someone looking at crime scene photos shows hands perfectly beside the bodies palms up. Not as described and published to the public in the first week after discovery.

When this new drawing/report came out and omitted the coats and made no mention of why originally the reports were they were found in them was not discussed left me feeling that we have been fed details that are untrue or not of fact. The drawing IMO was set out to show that they were displayed like the statues. It was KD that made this statement and wrote that they looked like the statues, not police or the private investigators.

TORONTO -- The bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman were in a similar pose to a pair of life-sized statues displayed in the billionaire couple’s basement, according to a report by Toronto Star chief investigative reporter Kevin Donovan.

As for the connection between the statues and the bodies, Donovan said it’s unclear if police have come to any conclusions about the apparent similarities.

“I have no idea what the police or the private investigators have come up with related to these photos,” he said. “I’ve asked the police and they’ve said they can’t comment on anything in an active and ongoing investigation.”

Murdered billionaire couple posed like 'creepy' life-sized figurines found in home: report

The bodies of Barry and Honey Sherman were in a similar pose to a pair of life-sized statues displayed in the billionaire couple’s basement, according to an investigation by the Toronto Star newspaper.

www.ctvnews.ca

I remind myself this is KD's story that he is surmising information he uncovers and trying to relate any subject matter to the case. KD can only go with what information he can uncover, I assume someone early on told him about the coats or lack there of, but to date I have not seen anyone come out and say they were not found in their winter coats.

Makes me wonder has KD been instructed by LE to no longer talk about the coats? Are LE and KD working together more than we know, is KD feeding specific details to the public so LE can move forward?

"they called for a “thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation,” urging the media to refrain from reporting until the investigation is complete."

Family of billionaire Canadian Jewish couple refutes murder-suicide claims

'Shocked' children of Barry and Honey Sherman 'think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory' they firmly reject

www.timesofisrael.com

When I look back at the pictures of the bodies being removed from the home on the gurney's they look like they could have a winter coat on, or the bodies were bloated as the middle of the bodies seemed to be very large compared to the feet.

Deaths of Billionaire Toronto Couple Were Homicides, Police Say (Published 2018)

Toronto authorities have ruled out murder-suicide, but they have no suspects yet in the mysterious killings.

www.nytimes.com

The longer this goes without an arrest I am really not sure if we can decipher if any of the news paper articles are completely accurate or give us the facts we could use to actually assist with pertinent information and public sleuthing to assist LE with information.

If it is this frustrating for us, I cannot fathom being a family member.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Do you have a link for who was in what amount of rigor mortis when removed?

I do not recall that detail being made public. Tx

The forensic pathologists have numerous ways to determine time of death other than/as well as rigor mortis.

no nothing from the media, this is why I said "in my opinion" just researching how rigor happens and the reported dates the bodies were found, logically using time of 36 hours as the time they sat deceased. It is quite coincidental that they state dead for 36 hours and this is the average/normal processing time for rigor.

From day 1 I was surprised they could determine the TOD (time of death) to be so precise. The bodies were in a temperature controlled room, a room that we are assuming had a large pool filled with chlorinated water.

Also something stood out to me, no reports from the people who found them that when they entered that room they could smell decomposition. One report from the gardener I believe who saw close up was the faces were purple.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Nov 25, 2019,

re-post​

Who Killed Honey and Barry Sherman: Investigating The Unsolved Billionaire Murders

An excerpt from Kevin Donovan's new book on the life and death of Barry Sherman, billionaire founder of Canadian pharmaceutical company Apotex, and his wife, Honey.

www.forbes.com

Nov 25, 2019

''An Excerpt from The Billionaire Murders by Kevin Donovan​

On the morning of Friday, December 15, 2017, Barry Sherman, multi-billionaire founder of Canadian pharmaceutical company Apotex and well-known philanthropist, was discovered in the basement of his 12,000-square-foot home in Toronto, in a seated position, legs outstretched, the right leg crossed neatly over the left, his back to the lap pool. He was wearing his glasses, perched undisturbed on his nose. His bomber-style jacket was pulled slightly off his shoulders and down, which held his arms at his sides. Beside him, Honey, his wife of forty-seven years, known as the “queen” of Toronto’s Jewish community, was in a similar position, the light coat she wore also pulled off her shoulders, holding her hands at her sides. They were both VSA, paramedic and police code for “vital signs absent.” A quick estimate by the paramedics suggested the couple had been dead for at least a day if not more. Rigor mortis, the condition where the muscles stiffen after death, had passed, and the limbs were relaxed and limp.

The reason they were still in a sitting position and had not slumped over or tipped back into the pool was that each of the Shermans had a man’s leather belt around their neck that was tied above their head to the three-foot-high stainless steel railing around the end of the lap pool. Both were fully dressed, their coats over top of clothes they had worn that day. Barry’s face was untouched; Honey’s was damaged, but by what was unclear. Barry was seventy-five when he died; Honey was seventy.''

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

In an exclusive look at the first stage of the high profile double murder case, the Toronto Star has gained access to police statements and interviews after a nearly three-year long court battle.

www.thestar.com

Nov 2020
''Toronto Fire Department arrived first after the 11:44 a.m. call. A firefighter noted “they were blue in colour with obvious signs of rigor mortis.” Police arrived a little later, at 11:54 a.m.''

Thank you for the back up dotr!

 

[JDG]

Why would a gardener be in the pool room in the dead of winter? (or ever)

Just curious. Tx

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Why would a gardener be in the pool room in the dead of winter? (or ever)

Just curious. Tx

The woman is refereed to as the gardener, she tended to the indoor plants and watered them on a regular basis.

When the realtors saw the bodies they immediately left, asked someone to go down and see what they saw. that was the "gardener"

 

[dotr]

If a house is for sale, is being shown and hiring staff to take care of it all was obviously no problem for the Shermans-
then why would the pool room be left dirty and likely a bit smelly with the green water, why would the real estate person even show that space? imo. speculation.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''The cleaning lady tidied the home, made the bed in Honey’s room, and the one Barry slept in (due to snoring issues). She tidied other parts of the house but not the rarely used swimming pool room — it had not been cleaned for three weeks.''

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

Today marks the third anniversary of the unsolved murders of Toronto billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman, who were found dead in the basement of their North York mansion in December 2017.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

''She added that the gardener, who had just arrived at the residence, returned to the basement to investigate.

According to the court documents, the gardener told police she came within a metre of the bodies, did not touch them, and came back upstairs.

She came back up “shaking,” the realtor told police, and informed the others that the Shermans were blue and clearly dead, adding that it appeared they had been murdered.''

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

If a house is for sale, is being shown and hiring staff to take care of it all was obviously no problem for the Shermans-
then why would the pool room be left dirty and likely a bit smelly with the green water, why would the real estate person even show that space? imo. speculation.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

''The location of the bodies is the most remote part of the Sherman house, and the pool was rarely used — the water was green, the pool cover was on, and the room had not been cleaned for three weeks. My speculation is that this area was chosen so that it would be a considerable amount of time before they were discovered.''

Five years later, inside the Barry and Honey Sherman murders

After a billionaire couple are found hanged by the railing of their indoor pool, a look back at the calm before the storm, the immediate finger pointing that left a family divided and the police still struggling to find a killer

www.thestar.com

''The cleaning lady tidied the home, made the bed in Honey’s room, and the one Barry slept in (due to snoring issues). She tidied other parts of the house but not the rarely used swimming pool room — it had not been cleaned for three weeks.''

It's been 3 years since Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead. Court documents reveal what we know so far

Today marks the third anniversary of the unsolved murders of Toronto billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman, who were found dead in the basement of their North York mansion in December 2017.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

''She added that the gardener, who had just arrived at the residence, returned to the basement to investigate.

According to the court documents, the gardener told police she came within a metre of the bodies, did not touch them, and came back upstairs.

She came back up “shaking,” the realtor told police, and informed the others that the Shermans were blue and clearly dead, adding that it appeared they had been murdered.''

Great finds again dotr!

The first URL I am curious how to tell the pool water was green if the pool cover is on?

Would anyone use a pool on rare occurrence that was not continuously serviced and the water turning green? If the Sherman's have a "gardener" watering indoor plants, cleaning lady, scheduled visits for the furnace maintenance, trainers, I would think they would have a pool company servicing the pool. If you are not servicing it you drain it, you do not swim in it.

On top, with the house being for sale it does not add up logically for me, either the water was not visible with a cover or the pool was empty, they knew showings were to happen the agents would have told them how to prep the house for viewings, I do not think they would allow a green dirty pool.

 

[Window21]

I have always thought that too. The green water makes no sense to me whatsoever. If the Shermans were so particular to hire a housekeeper, gardener, fitness trainer etc, I am almost positive they would have a pool service coming into the home at least once a month.