CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[Woodland]

This article, by the author of 'The Wrong Man' is linked on page 6, post #131. It's a summary of parts of his book.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/toromagazine/may2004/2009112301/7.html#62

From page 62 -

There was a small amount of her blood found in the foot well of the 1981 Toyota Tercel's back seats. Nothing about brain matter.

Page 67 and beyond - unable to copy and paste so will summarize.

Early in the summer of 1990, DD called LE and claimed to see the Tercel in Lake Scugog area about 6:00 am on 22 June - 3 days after EB disappeared - with a blond man at the wheel.
This later became a sighting on 20 June with RB at the wheel - but at 6:30 am on 20 June RB was at the Bain residence after being called by Mrs B.
DD's s-i-l later came forward and said DD had lied because he needed money.

According to the article, Raybould and Reesor relied on DD's renewed/revised/enhanced info to lay murder charges against RB and he was convicted even though RB could not have traveled from Lake Scugog to Scarborough in 30 minutes. LE/Crown would not have to explain the car moving at anytime from the body shop.

A very lucky killer went free, imo.

 

[Woodland]

... her id was found in her own bedroom

RSBM

Quote is from page 2 - is there something to back this up?

 

[eyesonly]

RSBM

Quote is from page 2 - is there something to back this up?

Person who married her aunt saw EB's I.D. in her bedroom months after her disappearance
in a little garbage pail thingy in her bedroom. There was never any mention from the forensics
of her ID in the list of things found in her car.

this person is in the book, woodland, believe he appears in the " private investigations " part. JS are his initials.

 

[Woodland]

EB would have had minimally - a drivers license, health card and some form of student card. What did the person see?

 

[Snively]

To say she was not at the park you would have to discount MP's testimony, who had know Liz for 10 years. Liz was in the park. Her testimony was tossed in it's entirety at the later trial due to hypnosis testimony on the man who she was seen with at the park. The initial testimony on see Liz at the tennis courts should have been allowed. Anybody that went through hypnosis had any and all of their testimony excluded and accurate and fair testimony, like I've shown above, we're not allowed. The judge refused to differentiate and excluded in it's entirety. Hypnosis, while controversial in 1992, was legally accepted. To eliminate everything due to a ruling passed many years after the initial trial, and not allow testimony and statements taken pre-hypnosis, eliminated much of the Crown's evidence, and is also very controversial.

 

[Woodland]

I completely discount MP's testimony and it has nothing to do with legalities - and I don't believe EB was at the park that day. Jmo.

 

[Snively]

Lake Scugog was considered as a possible hiding place and prime search area partially based on RB having a connection to a youth camp in the area and he was the main suspect at that moment. He had not been arrested by that point. They also had the information of the owner of Haugen's having seen her car in his parking lot at 5:30am on the 20th and his sighting of the missing key chain in the restaurant's dumpster. These were the prime two reasons. The other reason was that PM was known to frequent a boat or cottage in the area. He was still on the radar that day of the first major search of Lake Scugog. The police had not confirmed that PM was indeed working the date of Liz's disappearance at that moment in time. PM had been highly suspected at this point of being the Scarborough rapist and was in fact later had a request for his extradition from Ireland (he fled from Canada after a family member turned him in) submitted. DD's testimony was controversial within the police and especially the Crown attorney's and was the main reason of the time line of her body being moved on the 22nd and not on the night of the 19th or morning of the 20th that many believed. At least one Crown attorney was on the record saying she felt the body had been moved on the night of the 19th or morning of the 20th. Many also feel that RB went back to the parking lot after visiting the Bains house at 9:15PM and this in fact was the time of the murder. The LUD's pulled showed that RB had a window of opportunity at this moment between leaving the Bains, but the leading idea pushed by the police detectives was that the murder had occurred prior to this at closer to 7:00PM and so this became the official view of the police that was used in the trial.

 

[Snively]

She knew Liz for 10 years. She saw her at the tennis courts that night. Discount the hypnosis testimony all you like that the man Liz was with was RB, but the initial part she saw Liz at the tennis courts is 100% correct. She was seen at the library earlier in the day at 5:30PM by another lady who knew her. She was there at the campus and at the tennis court and her car was at the parking lot.

If you just want to toss all the testimony of the Crown and the defence (and a lot of defence testimony was questionable and conflicting with other statements) then don't eve bother trying to figure anything out since it just becomes pointless and nothing but conjecture.

 

[Woodland]

I think the potential for MP to have heard, before coming forward, that EB's mom said she went to the tennis court area is very high. MP did go and see the family after a short period of time. It becomes questionable to me, although I don't discount MP was trying to help. That's my opinion.


Can you tell us about the library?

Also, if it's not too much trouble, was there video from the bank showing EB made an ATM transaction at approximately 3:45 pm?

 

[Snively]

Yes there was a transaction made at the ATM (not a person's initials, so I don't confuse myself anymore with these damn initials instead of names lol) and it was confirmed to be Liz. However I can't recall or find any information if there was a camera at the ATM, but somebody said there was a camera either at the building or the ATM itself, and she knows a lot more details than I do.

KK was a friend of Liz's that saw her at the library between 5:00 and 5:30. She did not take out any books. Another lady named MW was a lady who worked at the library and at 4:00PM she talked to and conclusively saw RB whom she knew, at the library when he asked her if Liz had registered to take out a CD. She told him she couldn't tell him the information and referred him to the campus police both because he told her he was looking for Liz and also because he insisted to know but she refused to tell him and was starting to annoy her. It's unknown if he went to the campus police but there never was a report filed. The 4:00PM sighting by the librarian directly contradicts the testimony of RB's family who insisted he was at home until 6:30. Crown attorney's accused RB's family of lying about his whereabouts on more than one occasion.

As for an earlier report that I think was implying that something happened at the Bain residence the day of the 19th, the police were at the residence the morning of the 20th to interview her family and they did a cursory search for any clues to her whereabouts that morning. And I can you assure they did a thorough sweep of the Bain residence later on the 21st and they found absolutely no signs of any disturbance relating to a fight or struggle, and no signs of any blood.

Edited 7:49PM September 12, 2014

 

[Woodland]

So we don't yet if or how the ATM transaction was said to be EB herself.

RB is now looking for EB at 4:00 pm in the library? Her mother is said to have seen her leave home at 4:00 pm after just making a transaction at the bank at 3:45 pm - not sure what the distance is, or why she would go home and immediately leave. How long after EB's disappearance did KK say it was 19 June between 5:00 and 5:30 pm, and no other day?

Two people at the library with a 60 to 90 minute time-frame at one location? Then she went to the tennis courts and was sitting at picnic table at precisely 5:40 pm but her car is not in the lot close to the courts.

Way too busy for me.

When were LE seen using luminol at the Bain residence? Was that recorded somewhere?

 

[Snively]

Liz was confirmed to have used the ATM.

The ATM was close to her home. She had been out that afternoon and came home and went to the campus. Apparently she got changed. Nothing weird there.

I don't have the dates the statements were made. Only the police do. You may be able to get the date of statements if you spend a couple of thousand dollars trying to get the court transcripts. There were over 1000 statements and 200 hours of phone messages. Both of these witness statements are from people who knew Liz and in the case of MW she knew both Liz and RB. These are confirmed accurate. No hypnosis involved. One of the first locations that the police went was the campus so they would have been possibly and likely even before her car was found since that was the last place her mother said she was going.

RB had been trying to get a hold of her most of the afternoon. Yes, the librarian had him placed at the library at 4:00.

Yes, KK said it was the 19th and between 5:00 and 5:30. Again, no hypnosis involved. Easy to get from the library to the courts and if the time KK saw her was closer to 5:00 than 5:30 then there is tons of time. Not busy at all.

I double checked what I was told about the luminol. I was wrong. There was never anything that looked like blood so they had no reason to use it. My apologies for misunderstanding what I was told. The police were looking through the house for any clue as to where she would go or who she could have seen that day and night.

It's not far from the campus to the tennis courts and the parking lot where her car was seen was not far from the courts. It's about a 3 minute drive from the campus to the parking lot and a short walk from there to the tennis courts.

 

[Woodland]

With all due respect, nothing anyone says they saw is a confirmation, in of itself, that they saw anything.

RB's family said he was home until 6:30 or so, why are they wrong? RB said he did not commit this crime - why is he not believed?

DD initially 'said' he 'saw' the Tercel on the morning of 22 June - then that became 20 June - that may have changed back to 22 June at trial - not sure yet. It won't make a difference to me anyway.

You were 'sure' someone 'said' they 'saw' LE using luminol at the Bain residence - but that info, according to you now, was wrong.

I don't see anything that confirms EB was alive on the afternoon of 19 June 1990 - unless a video camera captured her making the ATM transaction at about 3:45 pm. If there was no video, I'm inclined to rewind prior to 3:45 pm. That's just me.

 

[Snively]

I misunderstood somebody on the luminol. My fault. They said nothing of the sort. I'll edit it out of my original post.

 

[Snively]

Feel free then to throw out all witness statements. None of them are good. Case close then I guess.

 

[Woodland]

No need at all to edit your post - point being people can be incorrect. Sometimes I swear I left my glasses on the kitchen counter - then find they are no where near the kitchen.

I'm hoping the case is just getting started.

 

[dotr]

Has EB's family given up searching for her, or do they just have no idea whatsoever as to where to begin searching?
Does RB hope to see her body recovered?
If there is no body, how is it known that EB is deceased?

 

[eyesonly]

Has EB's family given up searching for her, or do they just have no idea whatsoever as to where to begin searching?
Does RB hope to see her body recovered?
If there is no body, how is it known that EB is deceased?

EB's family gave up searching for her by the time RB was convicted.
They had to come to terms with it in order for them to move on with their lives. That doesn't mean they've given up hope one day she will be found.
The police had them convinced RB was guilty and the family maintains that stance to this day.

Yes RB and his family definitely hope to see her whereabouts found someday and find out exactly what happened that night.

As for Liz being deceased, that is based on the forensics account of the amount of blood in the car and apparently the brain matter that was in a news article by Snively that stated their "source" told them their was brain matter amongst the blood.

Could she have been kidnapped for prostitution, or faked her own demise to get away from everything.
Possible but not probable especially the 2nd scenario. I don't think Liz would cause that much pain for her loved ones by disappearing of her own free will. Jmo

 

[eyesonly]

RB had been trying to get a hold of her most of the afternoon.

Yes, KK said it was the 19th and between 5:00 and 5:30. Again, no hypnosis involved. Easy to get from the library to the courts and if the time KK saw her was closer to 5:00 than 5:30 then there is tons of time. Not busy at all..

careful about that statement of RB trying to get a hold of her most of the afternoon. that is a fabrication not based on any facts to back it up. there is absolutely no proof to back that up snively. one would think if he was looking for her in the afternoon, he would have called her house looking for her first, but that didn't happen, nobody in bain house said RB called in the afternoon looking for her and LE produced no phone records showing he called the house or attempted to call the house.

KK for instance wasn't sure it was the 19th, and KK stated that liz was wearing a purple T-shirt. which we know for a fact liz was not wearing
at 5-530pm on the 19th.
that purple t shirt was found in her younger sisters closet.

again the police were taking statements that might benefit them in their case against RB and doing what they do best in getting people to see things when
they want them to be seen.

the purple t shirt tells us right away that it was not on the 19th when liz disappeared, unless it was before she arrived home and changed before going to check the tennis schedule as per Mrs bains account.
i'm saying before 4pm when her mom says she left home for the courts, but i am not aware of what she was wearing during the day.

 

[Woodland]

Elizabeth Bain knew killer: Police: [FIN Edition]
John Duncanson TORONTO STAR. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 15 Nov 1990: A1.

Abstract (summary)

Metro police strongly suspect that [Elizabeth Bain], a University of Toronto student missing since June 19, was murdered by someone she knew.

[Steve Reesor] refused to say how Bain was killed but The Star has learned that she was killed by a hard object such as a rock, outside her car.

Bain, 23, a student at the University of Toronto, disappeared June 19. She was last seen by a friend near a picnic bench on the Scarborough campus.

Full Text

Metro police strongly suspect that Elizabeth Bain, a University of Toronto student missing since June 19, was murdered by someone she knew.

Detective Sergeant Steve Reesor, in charge of the investigation into her disappearance, confirmed today for the first time that police are treating it as a murder case.

Although her body has not been found, Reesor said DNA tests on blood found in her car have shown that it was hers and that she was slain.

Reesor refused to say how Bain was killed but The Star has learned that she was killed by a hard object such as a rock, outside her car.

Her body was likely then put in the car and removed from the scene of the killing.

Sources told The Star that blood found in the vehicle contained brain matter in such quantity that Bain could not have survived.

The identification of the blood was done by analysis of its genetic make-up, tests using highly sophisticated equipment that only recently became available for use by police in Ontario.

Homicide detectives are not releasing a psychological profile of the killer prepared by experts at the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation in Quantico, Va. Such profiles have proved to be highly accurate in other murder cases.

Bain, 23, a student at the University of Toronto, disappeared June 19. She was last seen by a friend near a picnic bench on the Scarborough campus.

Three days later, her bloodstained 1981 Toyota Tercel was found parked on Morrish Rd. near Kingston Rd.

Hundreds of volunteers have scoured ravines, creeks and parks in Metro's east end but so far have not turned up any clues to her disappearance.

BBM - the above quote is from page 16, post #399.

By the time the forensic testimony from The Centre of Forensic Sciences was heard in court - there was no brain matter in EB's car.

Unable to copy the Toronto Star archived article -

The only article I can find on any forensic testimony from the Star is dated 12 March 1992 - page A29.

RH of The Centre of Forensic Sciences testified (summarizing) 'blood similar to EB's was found smeared on the back floor of her car.

RH was the last Crown witness. The defense began their case and the jury began deliberations on 30 March 1992.

Imo, this is a case where inaccurate articles appeared in the paper before a case was heard, but there is plenty of 'more accurate' info to be found as a trial took place to weed out the rumors.