Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

Truth she could also have been just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Could have been someone on the path doing whatever, someone who was not a very nice person. There are according to people I have talked to, lots of places to kind of pull off, trails and paths galore. Also if Gen did fall into the river it would have had to have been from the dock behind the Boaz or close to the dock. The deck to the dock proper has railing on both sides, the dock is open along the front facing the river. The water would have been cold,cold. However the dock shouldn't have been slippery with such a dry hot day.

Genevieve's last known location was beyond the dock behind the Boaz; and well beyond the entrance to it. There is no reason to suspect that she turned around and walked back to that dock.

Her last known location puts her clearly heading to the path she was known to travel. Her last text message indicates that she was heading home with a purpose--she wanted to get her laundry done. She had a job interview Monday morning. Her mother expected her by 6:00 pm.

Genevieve was a local girl, and I've never know one local person to want to go play in that water--they all stay clear of it.

Yes, I can tell from zooming in that there are lots of paths where a vehicle could pull into and hide.

I personally favor that a perpetrator was waiting and may have chosen a section closer to Riverview Dr. For one thing, he would be staying nearer his intended exit for his own evil purposes.

(Another thing--I believe this is the section where Yeonhee was grabbed.)

I don't believe Genevieve landed in the water from the path. I think she was first transported to another location, and later deliberately placed in the water.

 

[OldSteve]

Thank you, Mr. Steve.

I think she may have been quite far into the path, too--almost ready to come out on Riverview Dr.

That's the side that seems to have the easiest access for a vehicle, with the path appearing quite wide until the trees.

There may be a section in there that could have allowed him to pull off the path, and wait for her.

I added the red circle about where the treed area seems to stop as someone would have approached the exit at Riverview Dr.

http://goo.gl/maps/qY0KU

Good morning Truth Prevails! Excellent work on the above, as usual!

Also, respectfully snipped from your post "Genevieve's last known location was beyond the dock behind the Boaz; and well beyond the entrance to it. There is no reason to suspect that she turned around and walked back to that dock."

It's like the water had :magnet: powers to pull her in...other than that, like you, absolutely no natural reason for her to get into the water!

 

[Sandpiper]

Genevieve's last known location was beyond the dock behind the Boaz; and well beyond the entrance to it. There is no reason to suspect that she turned around and walked back to that dock.

Her last known location puts her clearly heading to the path she was known to travel. Her last text message indicates that she was heading home with a purpose--she wanted to get her laundry done. She had a job interview Monday morning. Her mother expected her by 6:00 pm.

Genevieve was a local girl, and I've never know one local person to want to go play in that water--they all stay clear of it.

Yes, I can tell from zooming in that there are lots of paths where a vehicle could pull into and hide.

I personally favor that a perpetrator was waiting and may have chosen a section closer to Riverview Dr. For one thing, he would be staying nearer his intended exit for his own evil purposes.

(Another thing--I believe this is the section where Yeonhee was grabbed.)

I don't believe Genevieve landed in the water from the path. I think she was first transported to another location, and later deliberately placed in the water.

In my heart I agree with you in that Gen was taken from the path. No one would notice a truck or car coming out of that area. Also agree that she was transported to another location and went into water elsewhere. The dock makes me wonder if she may have stopped to sit and enjoy the last lingering warmth and feeling of summer. It was only 4:30 she was not expected home until 6:00. I have heard from people who knew her that she loved water and beaches and long walks in nature so this makes me think that Gen had a romantic side which might double back and sit on a dock.

 

[Truth Prevails]

In my heart I agree with you in that Gen was taken from the path. No one would notice a truck or car coming out of that area. Also agree that she was transported to another location and went into water elsewhere. The dock makes me wonder if she may have stopped to sit and enjoy the last lingering warmth and feeling of summer. It was only 4:30 she was not expected home until 6:00. I have heard from people who knew her that she loved water and beaches and long walks in nature so this makes me think that Gen had a romantic side which might double back and sit on a dock.

I love the ocean, too; but I was never tempted to go sit along the Saint John River near the Reversing Falls Bridge.

Mispec is a much better, and more sensible, choice, imo

She was already tired at 3:30 pm when she texted her girl friend to say she wanted to get home; do her laundry; grab some food and rest. She had most likely been out late the night before.

Gen was a conscientious girl--she knew what her obligations were and how to organize her time.

The sighting of Genevieve beyond the BoAz Restuarant was confirmed by law enforcement.

To me--suggesting that she suddenly stopped in her tracks; turned around; backtracked to the boardwalk built for tourists; and walked down a set of stairs as the tide was coming in--is like trying to pound a square peg into a round whole.

It doesn't fit.

I suppose there could be things we do not know, that could make it fit--but based on the little that has been released in this case, I'm not seeing that.

 

[OldSteve]

:goodpost: All the key points that make her untimely death one of the most difficult for me to get a handle on.

We have allot of info that we don't have in other cases - for instance:

She was already tired at 3:30 pm when she texted her girl friend to say she wanted to get home; do her laundry; grab some food and rest. She had most likely been out late the night before.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Good morning Truth Prevails! Excellent work on the above, as usual!

Also, respectfully snipped from your post "Genevieve's last known location was beyond the dock behind the Boaz; and well beyond the entrance to it. There is no reason to suspect that she turned around and walked back to that dock."

It's like the water had :magnet: powers to pull her in...other than that, like you, absolutely no natural reason for her to get into the water!

BBM - That's about how I feel.

It was not the powers of the water that pulled Genevieve in--it was most likely the power of something evil, in the form of man.

imo

 

[OldSteve]

In my heart I agree with you in that Gen was taken from the path. No one would notice a truck or car coming out of that area. Also agree that she was transported to another location and went into water elsewhere. The dock makes me wonder if she may have stopped to sit and enjoy the last lingering warmth and feeling of summer. It was only 4:30 she was not expected home until 6:00. I have heard from people who knew her that she loved water and beaches and long walks in nature so this makes me think that Gen had a romantic side which might double back and sit on a dock.

As much as I agree with Truth Prevails, of course, it is possible. This is where those who knew her can advise us. What did she do in the past.
Imagine the difference if a friend came forward saying, "I've known first hand for Gen to say she's tired, but would still go down to the dock to catch a last minute look at the water."

Question - if she did go down to the dock, would she be facing west to see the sun setting, or east?

What I don't like here it the there'd have to be a "double gotcha" - meaning two event that don't seem likely to happen to happen:
1) She'd have to divert from the course she appeared to be on.
2) She'd have to fall into water.

 

[Truth Prevails]

:goodpost: All the key points that make her untimely death one of the most difficult for me to get a handle on.

We have allot of info that we don't have in other cases - for instance:

Yes, as much as I complain, I have to admit you are correct in that we have a fair amount of info on this case.

That's only because she was missing for some time, and law enforcement wanted any tips the public might have on her whereabouts.

Plus, Genevieve's family were willing to do media interviews.

 

[Truth Prevails]

As much as I agree with Truth Prevails, of course, it is possible. This is where those who knew her can advise us. What did she do in the past.
Imagine the difference if a friend came forward saying, "I've known first hand for Gen to say she's tired, but would still go down to the dock to catch a last minute look at the water."

Question - if she did go down to the dock, would she be facing west to see the sun setting, or east?

BBM - Perhaps it is south/west, but don't quote me on that.

We can't quote what we read on Facebook, but I believe we are allowed to paraphrase. You have to take this with a grain of salt and just go: hmmm; but I read that the path I point out below is the path Gen used frequently. She was never known to stray from this path.

The people who did all the ground searches for Gen were doing them because they knew "Gen's" path did not take her that close to the water, and they did not believe she was in the water.

They were devastated and heartbroken when she turned up at Anthony's Cove.

What I don't like here it the there'd have to be a "double gotcha" - meaning two event that don't seem likely to happen to happen:
1) She'd have to divert from the course she appeared to be on.
2) She'd have to fall into water.

Regarding number 2, if she walked down the steps--which I do not believe she did--she would basically be at the waters edge. Please remember that this was a cautious and considerate girl who understood the dangers of the area.

http://binged.it/1ihEA9T

 

[RainyAlaska]

What I don't like here it the there'd have to be a "double gotcha" - meaning two event that don't seem likely to happen to happen:
1) She'd have to divert from the course she appeared to be on.
2) She'd have to fall into water.

Very true. Well stated OldSteve.

We know she told a friend that she was tired so she was walking home with a purpose, as opposed to meandering or exploring around enjoying the afternoon. Gen was also 19 years old and very aware of the dangers of the water, as opposed to someone younger who might not fully respect the dangers.

I'm like the rest of you. Just don't see this as "accidental". So no suicide and no accident...that leaves foul play. ????

 

[OldSteve]

Hello RainyAlaska - first time here (I think) and just want to :welcome: you!

 

[Sandpiper]

As much as I agree with Truth Prevails, of course, it is possible. This is where those who knew her can advise us. What did she do in the past.
Imagine the difference if a friend came forward saying, "I've known first hand for Gen to say she's tired, but would still go down to the dock to catch a last minute look at the water."

Question - if she did go down to the dock, would she be facing west to see the sun setting, or east?

What I don't like here it the there'd have to be a "double gotcha" - meaning two event that don't seem likely to happen to happen:
1) She'd have to divert from the course she appeared to be on.
2) She'd have to fall into water.

Old Steve Gen would have been facing in an easterly direction, looking back down direction she had just walked. There is a path leading to the dock that is accessed from the main path not far from the entrance. The dock itself is well built and is intended for the loading of passengers for harbour tours.

 

[OldSteve]

Old Steve Gen would have been facing in an easterly direction, looking back down direction she had just walked. There is a path leading to the dock that is accessed from the main path not far from the entrance. The dock itself is well built and is intended for the loading of passengers for harbour tours.

Thanks for info, and thanks for all the good work you do!

My asking the question was, to see if she could see sun going down over the water, versus looking away, toward darker water/sky... but water sound too unfriendly to enjoy either way..

OT -
I use to like watching the sun set over the ocean, but never liked looking east from Jersey shore as night fell - dark sea... etc...

Different when in the tropics, since calm water, and large clouds that would blow out to sea in the evening produced distance lightning flashes (no thunder, too far) was pretty... allot rum, also helped...:floorlaugh:
Oh to be young again!

 

[Truth Prevails]

Very true. Well stated OldSteve.

We know she told a friend that she was tired so she was walking home with a purpose, as opposed to meandering or exploring around enjoying the afternoon. Gen was also 19 years old and very aware of the dangers of the water, as opposed to someone younger who might not fully respect the dangers.

I'm like the rest of you. Just don't see this as "accidental". So no suicide and no accident...that leaves foul play. ????

BBM - Yes, and that can be supported by links:

At about 3:45 minutes in:
Matthew Bingley, CBC: The last time that she was seen was on King Street, I think; just going about her day. Have you thought about what she could have been doing that day?
Gen’s mother: Her friend, Nick, said she was heading home. She had told her other friends that she was heading home. One of her friends thought they did see her at 4:20 pm over by Ocean Steel—that wasn’t confirmed as positive, but she was pretty sure that was Genna and that’s the last anyone has seen. A friend at 3:30 pm was talking to her and she just told them that she was tired and hungry and wanted to go home. She was on her way home.
http://www.cbc.ca/informationmornin...e-want-help-locating-missing-saint-john-team/

In the CBC video linked below Gen's father called it a text message, and he adds she was planning on going home, doing laundry and getting some rest, and planning to meet later on.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/NB/ID/2413891027/

(I can't check the video link due to problems with my computer, but I'm pretty sure it still works.)

According to Gen's mother that was around 3:30 pm, right around the time she was seen on King Street, near Tim Horton's. Google maps give an estimated walk time of 45 minutes, so that fits fairly well with the last reported sighting of Gen being around 4:30.

It all seems so normal to me--a 19 year old woman walking home after spending a night in the uptown area with friends. She had a job interview the next day; she wanted to get home and get her laundry done; she needed some rest and the family meal was possibly around 6:00 pm, when her mom was expecting her home.

She probably felt if she was feeling better she might go visit her friend after she had some decent food.

I don't know how much more routine you can get than that. 19 year olds are allowed to be tired, too. It's outrageous to think that would point to suicide.

Even on a nice day with the temperatures being in the mid-60's, a light jacket would be advisable when crossing the Reversing Falls Bridge. That water roars with it's pure force. There is a spray from it.

There is a big pulp mill just upstream. It spews pollution. Most people--romantic or not romantic--do not want to hang around it.

She walked that area often; she always followed a known path. People who knew her do confirm this.

She was in good health--this was confirmed by Genevieve's family.

End of rant--so all that to say: Yes, I agree. I see nothing else but foul play.

And add to that two other deaths: Shelby Dawn Williams and Yeonhee Chan.

Add the timing and the circumstances of those deaths with Genevieve's, and see what it looks like.

imo

 

[OldSteve]

Respectfully snipped:

I don't know how much more routine you can get than that. 19 year olds are allowed to be tired, too. It's outrageous to think that would point to suicide.

Even on a nice day with the temperatures being in the mid-60's, a light jacket would be advisable when crossing the Reversing Falls Bridge. That water roars with it's pure force. There is a spray from it.

There is a big pulp mill just upstream. It spews pollution. Most people--romantic or not romantic--do not want to hang around it.

She walked that area often; she always followed a known path. People who knew her do confirm this.

She was in good health--this was confirmed by Genevieve's family.

End of rant--so all that to say: Yes, I agree. I see nothing else but foul play.

And add to that two other deaths: Shelby Dawn Williams and Yeonhee Chan.

Add the timing and the circumstances of those deaths with Genevieve's, and see what it looks like.

imo

Great summation! It's rare to get clear a picture like this just before a person goes missing.
If this were my child and this was all the info I had, I'd be very confused and frustrated and of course very heart broken.

 

[RainyAlaska]

Hello RainyAlaska - first time here (I think) and just want to :welcome: you!

Thanks for the welcome, OldSteve. I've been lurking since Gen went missing but don't comment much.

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks for the welcome, OldSteve. I've been lurking since Gen went missing but don't comment much.

Glad you decided to post! - I had not thought about what you mentioned, why would she go into the water (if she had on purpose) with her purse?...

All three of the women found in the water (CMIIW) did not anything behind on the shore - very strange if suicides, strange too if they fell in, since one would think something would have been shed slippng/siding down an embankment...

 

[Truth Prevails]

Respectfully snipped:



Great summation! It's rare to get clear a picture like this just before a person goes missing.
If this were my child and this was all the info I had, I'd be very confused and frustrated and of course very heart broken.

BBM - They might have slightly more--for example, they have probably seen the last photo taken in the vicinity of Ocean Steel; and they were possibly told the full contents of her purse, and what articles of clothing remained on her.

I think they would have to give up that much to the immediate family; or at least would if asked.

There could be other things, too; that we are missing--and every little scrap helps.

Still, I'm not seeing anything that would quell my rising thoughts that this was murder.

I don't understand the lack of outrage really; even with Shelby's and Yeonhee's families.

Honestly, I believe it is due to extreme grief--you just can't fight any more battles at times like that, you know. You have to pick them, and the biggest one is getting out of bed in the morning and putting one foot in front of the other the rest of the day.

We are taught not to fight authority because authority always wins, so the battle is just too much at such times.

That's how they get away with it, imo.

 

[Sandpiper]

BBM - They might have slightly more--for example, they have probably seen the last photo taken in the vicinity of Ocean Steel; and they were possibly told the full contents of her purse, and what articles of clothing remained on her.

I think they would have to give up that much to the immediate family; or at least would if asked.

There could be other things, too; that we are missing--and every little scrap helps.

Still, I'm not seeing anything that would quell my rising thoughts that this was murder.

I don't understand the lack of outrage really; even with Shelby's and Yeonhee's families.

Honestly, I believe it is due to extreme grief--you just can't fight any more battles at times like that, you know. You have to pick them, and the biggest one is getting out of bed in the morning and putting one foot in front of the other the rest of the day.

We are taught not to fight authority because authority always wins, so the battle is just too much at such times.

That's how they get away with it, imo.

Truth I feel your passion and your pain. Perhaps the problem in fighting the authorities is just where do families start? Maybe it is easier to hope it was only a drowning not daring to venture to more terrible thoughts, perhaps there is comfort in not pushing things too far. Gens family spoke out right away and denied any mention of suicide. In Yeonhee's case there could be cultural and language issues regarding a denial of suicide and a further search for truth. I don"t believe there was anything from the family once she had been found. Poor Shelby's family just wanted privacy and yes the grief must be overwhelming for all the families.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth I feel your passion and your pain. Perhaps the problem in fighting the authorities is just where do families start?

BBM - I agree. But why do we have to fight? That's what I ask myself.

Maybe it is easier to hope it was only a drowning not daring to venture to more terrible thoughts, perhaps there is comfort in not pushing things too far.

This is possibly a personal decision, which I would respect.

However, for myself, I would want the reality; and I would want justice, if appropriate.

Gens family spoke out right away and denied any mention of suicide.

Yes, and I applaude them for it. If not for that very fact, Genevieve's death would have been considered a suicide; and those--like myself--who dared question it, it would have been deem unpopular.

In Yeonhee's case there could be cultural and language issues regarding a denial of suicide and a further search for truth. I don"t believe there was anything from the family once she had been found.

True about Yeonhee, but she was a citizen of our country and entitled to its benefits--like justice, for example.

Poor Shelby's family just wanted privacy and yes the grief must be overwhelming for all the families.

This is my opinion only, but I think Shelby's family were afraid of the things that might have been said about her in the press if they pushed the issue.

I respect that, and think their point was very valid; but I yearn for the day when we will stop blaming the victim.

All imo