Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

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  • #501
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  • #502
My first thought was that they were Lucas Fowler's keys and that is possibly what tied them to that crime scene. But then I realized they wouldn't have just been left there.

Unless cars are torched regularly on this spot on the road, it is likely missed evidence. And Billy Beardy found a burning car to be an oddity.
 
  • #503
Well I sort of think you might be confusing my statements with logical fallacies I have not made. I'm always pretty careful with my language because as an attorney I realize there are rarely absolutes and a comma makes a difference. You know what I mean?

So if I say, "Hmm. The creature has fangs and fur. Thus it's a sign that it couldbe a dog.", you sort of appear to be reading that statement as me saying "All dogs have fangs and fur therefore any creature with fangs and fur must be a dog."

However that's not what I said. Not close.

I don't know, I kind of see this pattern routinely in cases where people will address each issue or item of circumstantial evidence and pick it apart to show how, "well look, I can explain why this one particular item proves nothing and if I can do that for most of them, there's no case," instead of understanding that these things cannot be viewed in vacuum. It is the whole picture, not an individual puzzle piece that matters. Does a cumulation of things paint a picture that makes some conclusion more likely than not?

That's what I look at.

I didn't mention mental illness on the part of any of their parents. I mentioned paranoia, thoughts of revenge and a criminal record, as well as general family dysfunction. But never did I state those are a "proven marker of who a child will grow up to be or what there capable of". That's a super definitive and nonsensical statement that I didn't make and never would. However, parental criminality and family dysfunction when combined with other things, may be a sign that a couple of fresh faced boys aren't so sweet and healthy and may indeed have issues that render them capable of destruction and evil.

No. Long hours playing wildnerness games is indeed not more commonly known as camping. There is zero to suggest these two were avid campers engaged in fun outdoor activities with a group of like minded friends. Bryer's dad was pretty specific: "They considered themselves survivalists. 'They liked to go into the woods and play war.'"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-killings-is-on-a-suicide-mission-father/amp/

That's not how I've ever camped. I think it's cute to think they were just wholesome boys out in the fresh air having fun but that's really not what Bryer's dad described.

Looking at my statement again, about video games, I specifically stated: "hours and hours watching YouTube and playing video games, both of which can appeal to anti-social types and make them less able to learn to cope with the real world."

Sure, there can be and are social aspects to many video games. Many are interactive and involve teams and lots of dialogue and back and forth. But respectfully, so?

Looking back at what Bryer's dad said about them: "He described his son’s upbringing as being troubled, with his parents’ going through a bitter separation in 2005. The teen allegedly turned to video games and YouTube as his main influences, his father said."

From the link above.

I don't think that's healthy.

Video games didn't cause this. Nor violent movies. I think I've been clear on that. I find that laughable.

However, it is undeniable that introverts and people who isolate themselves and lack social skills may be drawn to spending hours online playing games or watching YouTube.

But again, I'm looking at signs that together, not apart, may show that these two displayed evidence that not all was okay. That they had serious issues.

All of the above coupled with statements about wanting to kill or harm people as some schoolmates have discussed, AND an interest in violent and hateful ideology, indicate to me that yes, they seem to match the profile of many young spree killers or mass murderers.

I'm not persuaded by their fresh faces and sweet smiles. There were some indications that there was something going on with these two.


I looked up the game Rust mentioned, and whoa, it sounds like what they are doing.
 
  • #504
The matches being left behind is very questionable I think.. If their next move was going to live and hide in the wilderness, matches would be paramount... And even the most inept people would know that. Why would they just leave a bunch behind, unless they didn't need them?
 
  • #505
leonard-dyck-wreath-debra-dennis.jpg


On the road where a body was found, a wreath is quietly laid in Northern B.C.

Debra Dennis, 56, made a wreath as gesture to murder victim's family
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-quietly-laid-1.5226788?__vfz=medium=sharebar
 
  • #506
Well I sort of think you might be confusing my statements with logical fallacies I have not made. I'm always pretty careful with my language because as an attorney I realize there are rarely absolutes and a comma makes a difference. You know what I mean?

So if I say, "Hmm. The creature has fangs and fur. Thus it's a sign that it couldbe a dog.", you sort of appear to be reading that statement as me saying "All dogs have fangs and fur therefore any creature with fangs and fur must be a dog."

However that's not what I said. Not close.

I don't know, I kind of see this pattern routinely in cases where people will address each issue or item of circumstantial evidence and pick it apart to show how, "well look, I can explain why this one particular item proves nothing and if I can do that for most of them, there's no case," instead of understanding that these things cannot be viewed in vacuum. It is the whole picture, not an individual puzzle piece that matters. Does a cumulation of things paint a picture that makes some conclusion more likely than not?

That's what I look at.

I didn't mention mental illness on the part of any of their parents. I mentioned paranoia, thoughts of revenge and a criminal record, as well as general family dysfunction. But never did I state those are a "proven marker of who a child will grow up to be or what there capable of". That's a super definitive and nonsensical statement that I didn't make and never would. However, parental criminality and family dysfunction when combined with other things, may be a sign that a couple of fresh faced boys aren't so sweet and healthy and may indeed have issues that render them capable of destruction and evil.

No. Long hours playing wildnerness games is indeed not more commonly known as camping. There is zero to suggest these two were avid campers engaged in fun outdoor activities with a group of like minded friends. Bryer's dad was pretty specific: "They considered themselves survivalists. 'They liked to go into the woods and play war.'"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...-killings-is-on-a-suicide-mission-father/amp/

That's not how I've ever camped. I think it's cute to think they were just wholesome boys out in the fresh air having fun but that's really not what Bryer's dad described.

Looking at my statement again, about video games, I specifically stated: "hours and hours watching YouTube and playing video games, both of which can appeal to anti-social types and make them less able to learn to cope with the real world."

Sure, there can be and are social aspects to many video games. Many are interactive and involve teams and lots of dialogue and back and forth. But respectfully, so?

Looking back at what Bryer's dad said about them: "He described his son’s upbringing as being troubled, with his parents’ going through a bitter separation in 2005. The teen allegedly turned to video games and YouTube as his main influences, his father said."

From the link above.

I don't think that's healthy.

Video games didn't cause this. Nor violent movies. I think I've been clear on that. I find that laughable.

However, it is undeniable that introverts and people who isolate themselves and lack social skills may be drawn to spending hours online playing games or watching YouTube.

But again, I'm looking at signs that together, not apart, may show that these two displayed evidence that not all was okay. That they had serious issues.

All of the above coupled with statements about wanting to kill or harm people as some schoolmates have discussed, AND an interest in violent and hateful ideology, indicate to me that yes, they seem to match the profile of many young spree killers or mass murderers.

I'm not persuaded by their fresh faces and sweet smiles. There were some indications that there was something going on with these two.

It's the antisocial threads reported about BS that bother me. School? Threats. Gaming? Aggressiveness and harassment reported by other gamers.
 
  • #507
Thinking back to last known whereabouts of K & B on 7/22 in Split Lake.
They were stopped for bypassing the checkpoint. They said they were going in to town for gas. They were seen at the Gas Bar, presumably TCN Gas Bar in town where they bought the gas. They were last seen leaving town by Saunders and his partner at the checkpoint. Could they have made any other stops in town?
Do we know how much time elapsed between when they were stopped and when they were seen leaving town?
Is anyone familiar with Hwy 280 near the cutoff to Split Lake?
Are there signs for the gas station on 280?
Where exactly is the checkpoint? It seems to be somewhat off 280 on the road into town.
In Split Lake there is a chicken restaurant, hotel, grocery store, and the gas bar. They could have purchased some additional supplies here.
It was about a 2 hour drive then to Gillam where the Rav 4 was found burning outside of town about 7:00 pm
K & B were not named suspects until the following day. I think they could have got a ride out of town that evening and gotten well west of the cutoff to Split Lake before anyone even knew who they were.
MOO
 
  • #508
There has been no confirmation that they even have a gun, or ever had one - except Bryers father saying he bought him an airsoft. (Airsoft is a BB gun that shoots tiny plastic pellets no larger than a small pea)
I wondered about the gun bit. It's possible they bought a gun off the street from someone.
 
  • #509
  • #510
I looked up the game Rust mentioned, and whoa, it sounds like what they are doing.

No, it really doesn't. They wouldn't be leaving useful items behind if that were the case. There is no strategy in that.

ETA: .....unless they are resetting maybe.
 
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  • #511
I wonder if there is any way Kam and/or Bryer was known by Chynna and/or Lucas. On-line perhaps? A travel or camping forum/discussion group? Maybe a friendly interaction was mistaken as something more by either KM or BS. A feeling of jealousy or betrayal that led to the murders of CD and LF? I, obviously, have no proof and am not trying to prove any points; just thinking out loud here.
 
  • #512
The matches being left behind is very questionable I think.. If their next move was going to live and hide in the wilderness, matches would be paramount... And even the most inept people would know that. Why would they just leave a bunch behind, unless they didn't need them?

It looked like they were dropped, perhaps in their haste to distance themselves from the fire.

Anything is possible, but Billy Beardy was there first.
 
  • #513
Vancouver was too close to the crimes. They'd be too hot. The city would allow them to blend in, find shelter and most importantly give them access to free food. Nobody is going to survive a Canadian winter in the woods, no matter how good a survivalist they are.

Why wouldn’t they blend in, find shelter and get access to free food in Vancouver? This can’t be the same Vancouver that I know, plus the year round climate is far less harsh than in Toronto.
 
  • #514
Re: the keys/key rings--they are rusty. Anybody know how long it would take for that amount of rust to form?
 
  • #515
I wonder if there is any way Kam and/or Bryer was known by Chynna and/or Lucas. On-line perhaps? A travel or camping forum/discussion group? Maybe a friendly interaction was mistaken as something more by either KM or BS. A feeling of jealousy or betrayal that led to the murders of CD and LF? I, obviously, have no proof and am not trying to prove any points; just thinking out loud here.

I think that’s spectacularly unlikely.

They broke down on the side of the road, and were almost certainly victims of opportunity.

They just got very unlucky.
 
  • #516
I wondered about the gun bit. It's possible they bought a gun off the street from someone.
I just assumed either it was taken from one of their family members, or they stole it from their victims.
 
  • #517
Re: the keys/key rings--they are rusty. Anybody know how long it would take for that amount of rust to form?
I don't think that's rust but scorched, charred keys. If you look at both photos tweeted together, you can see the charred debris on road where the burned vehicle was hauled away.
 
  • #518
Re: the keys/key rings--they are rusty. Anybody know how long it would take for that amount of rust to form?

I don't have a link and I'm not an expert (someone will come along that knows more haha) but from another case I have followed, I learned that this is what happens in a hot fire to certain metals.
 
  • #519
As a side note - it was printed on some outlets in Ontario that the OPP in Barrie had released information on Monday night, around the same time as the garbage dump sighting, that the killers could be in Ontario. It was just coming across the wire, when the dump info broke. I will dig up the link to the article. I thought it must have been moot with the garbage sighting news, it literally broke at the same time.

Not sure if you guys are aware of this? I cannot keep up with threads.
 
  • #520
Ontario Provincial Police James Bay Detachment in Kapuskasking received a report about a suspicious vehicle driving through a construction zone on Highway 11 in Kapuskasing today around 10:35 a.m.

OPP stated they can’t confirm the identity of the people in the vehicle that was occupied by two males.

The OPP is continuing to investigate this incident and is actively looking for the vehicle.

If you observe any suspicious vehicles or activity, do not approach, and contact 911 or the Ontario Provincial Police at 1-888-310-1122.

Please don’t report suspicious activity through social media, call the police directly.

OPP receive report of suspicious vehicle on Highway 11 North
 
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