Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[otto]

What I wonder, based on the river and the exact nature of the rapids - if a marine crash expert is able to determine if the boat’s damage indicates it had weight in it at the time it hit the rapids. For example an empty boat would be quite light and buoyant versus a boat carrying one or two people.

We might need a physicist, but my guess is that the boat buckled at the weakest point (the middle) and that would happen regardless of load.

 

[Kubirai]

1) August 4, BS' birthday, has come and gone with nothing "significant" (in the way of them publicly ending their lives if that was their true intention) as far as we know.

2) With the teenagers being from BC...is northeast Manitoba and the Nelson River well-known enough that they would even be familiar with the area and the possible

Q2 first ... my hunch is that they know current or former workers of Gillam area hydroelectric projects.

When they decided to escape from Yukon/BC, they chose Gillam area intentionally.

Now Q1 ... Aug 4 has been eventful, but elsewhere. BS had joined some communist groups, and Dayton killer claimed to be a socialist. Imagine if their paths intersected online.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Looking for some help following the trail of the "suit". I remember BS's father stating he bought a suit, but do we know for sure he took it with him on the trip? I know a "suit"was seen in the Rav 4 when it was stopped at the checkpoint. I foolishly assumed the suit seen in the Rav 4 belonged to LD. Mr Dyck was a lecturing professor, seemed logical to me he may have brought a suit with him. Do we know for certain that BS took "his" suit with him when he left home?

No, we don't know whose suit it was, and since it was presumably incinerated, we will probably never know. I read in an article somewhere that Professor Dyck was on the trip to collect samples, so it doesn't make much sense that he would have brought a suit. Plus from my own experience majoring and working in the life sciences, most biology professors don't even wear suits unless they're going to a really fancy conference or something. They usually wear some kind of jeans and sweater type of thing. They have to spend time in the lab too in the course of a normal day (even if they don't do lab work themselves they check on the work that is being done), and a suit isn't good lab wear. Personally I would bet money that the suit was Bryer's especially given that his dad thought it was a significant enough thing to mention in the interview.

What I wonder, based on the river and the exact nature of the rapids - if a marine crash expert is able to determine if the boat’s damage indicates it had weight in it at the time it hit the rapids. For example an empty boat would be quite light and buoyant versus a boat carrying one or two people.

That's a really good point. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do some analysis of that kind.

 

[MistyWaters]

If there was another sighting on video. Would it be known to the public? Just wondering if police have a positive tip. Being they are not diving anymore.

If there was any confirmed sightings elsewhere I think they’d announce that for the sake of safety to others and to seek more tips. And the RCMP wouldn’t still be blocking access at PR 290 north of Gillam. Searching specific areas in a fast flowing river which flows into Hudson’s Bay wouldn’t take as long as, for example, searching a lake bottom. After one day of diving, they may still be carefully scouring the river edge (reference to “additional searches”)

 

[missy1974]

That cop telling a very young child to watch their sibling and then closing the door on her/him was saddening. Totally unprofessional. IMO clearly traumatizing for the children too.

I just watched the video. It sounds like the RCMP tried to determine whether it was valid or not but because the back windows were so dark, they couldn't see in the back windows. It did seem a bit excessive, but at the same time, what if it was them, or what if they were in the back seat? Such a catch 22.

These Saskatchewan sighting stories are becoming confusing imo. The CBC report about people getting stopped refers to “last Wednesday”. Or maybe it was Wed, July 24th when the Meadow Lake sighting was first announced by the RCMP.

Last Wednesday would be July 31st. It was published today.

Something concerning was.... the guy says 'apparently they are looking for 2 guys and there is a canada wide warrant' .... so this guy didn't even know???? There are still people that are not aware??? lol

 

[Kubirai]

We might need a physicist, but my guess is that the boat buckled at the weakest point (the middle) and that would happen regardless of load.

Which post has a photo of the boat? I forgot most of my physics, but an empty boat is more likely to flip in the rapids. The sides would get banged more than the bottom, which is now the top.

 

[otto]

As a mathematician, I'm prepared to say that the boat buckled at its' weakest point. The seats provide structural integrity for the two ends. Maybe a physicist can add more insight.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I just watched the video. It sounds like the RCMP tried to determine whether it was valid or not but because the back windows were so dark, they couldn't see in the back windows. It did seem a bit excessive, but at the same time, what if it was them, or what if they were in the back seat? Such a catch 22

I understand that but when they realized the fugitives were not in the car but the couples children. Also the couple said they were placed in the back of the police car. As the one child was crying for their mother. The women police officer should have stayed and comforted the children not close the door on them. There was enough police with guns that this could have been possible IMO.

 

[Kubirai]

I foolishly assumed the suit seen in the Rav 4 belonged to LD. Mr Dyck was a lecturing professor, seemed logical to me he may have brought a suit with him. Do we know for certain that BS took "his" suit with him when he left home?

The witness seems reliable, so there probably was a suit in the car. BS family will know if he took the suit from home.

Otherwise it belongs to Prof. Dyck, a shorter and chubbier man. In that case, they would have sold it for cash.

 

[MistyWaters]

We might need a physicist, but my guess is that the boat buckled at the weakest point (the middle) and that would happen regardless of load.

Yes the strength of the aluminium boat and the ferocity and depth of the current would be considered in that analysis as well. I’m always amazed at the information car crash experts are able to determine from what looks like a total mass of crunched metal.

I’m curious if this will be addressed in the next RCMP update.

 

[Zella]

I'm just chiming in on the height of KM and BS. (I haven't posted on Websleuths in a few years - I'm a bit rusty). I looked at the CCTV footage of them again to try to find a spot where their heights could be guessed against something static when they're both looking straight ahead. Both of them are looking straight ahead as they come around the corner into aisle 19. I looked at the CCTV footage on the Australian ABC site (Military joins hunt for Canadian fugitives as new CCTV footage released). KM turns the corner and he's looking ahead at 00:05. BS turns the corner and looks ahead at about 00:07. It's not exact, but they do look pretty similar in height compared to the silver vertical bar on the right, although BS appears to stoop a bit. I was wondering if the photo where BS appears taller (the photo of them with the pink butterflies) was taken when they were younger and were growing at different rates.

My nephew had a final growth spurt around the age of 17 when he reached his final height (6' 7"). He's 21 now and starting to fill out, though is still rather scrawny. He was able to buy a suit off the rack (for a university dinner) at one of those big/tall places.

Oh that's really interesting--thanks for pointing that out! I tried to do that when they were leaving with the door, but KM was tilting his head, so it's hard to tell, though BS's shoulders look about a good 4 inches taller than KM's on the red height measurement thing on the side. I drew a line on BS's shoulder and then 2 lines on KM's picture: one for his shoulder and one for a comparison point of where BS's shoulder was.

I tried to do a screencap for comparison's sake, though in the past my file images are too big, so here goes trying to resize it. Apologies in advance if I mess it up:


Source of images:

 

[Zella]

I tried making the images a little bigger, which was probably a moot point. But here they are again as files rather than as thumbnails. Sorry for my incompetence with the pictures!

Image source:

 

[Kubirai]

As a mathematician, I'm prepared to say that the boat buckled at its' weakest point. The seats provide structural integrity for the two ends. Maybe a physicist can add more insight.

View attachment 196958

View attachment 196959

I hope someone with physics or mechanical engineering expertise will chime in.

My best guess is that it flipped and slammed into a rock, causing the buckle.

Alternate guess is that two guys overloaded the boat and got in, causing the buckle.

 

[MistyWaters]

The witness seems reliable, so there probably was a suit in the car. BS family will know if he took the suit from home.

Otherwise it belongs to Prof. Dyck, a shorter and chubbier man. In that case, they would have sold it for cash.

Good will stores everywhere are filled with second hand suits for sale for only a few dollars. Anywhere along their northern route, two young men attempting to sell a suit would definitely attract attention IMO.

It’s possible a suit was in the RAV4 to prop up a fabricated story in case they got stopped. One thing neither of the band constables have ever mentioned, a common question they’d ask people I’d think given B&K were obviously not locals and the vehicle had BC plates is were they stopping/visiting somebody on the reserve or where were they headed? Maybe a ruse of a job interview at Gillam would’ve been the reply and B was that naive to think having a visible suit hanging in the rear seat (my speculation) would support a story such as that.

ETA
Otherwise maybe the suits only purpose was to block light from the back seat window as they took turns sleeping in the back seat while the other drive during their hasty flee from BC to Man.

 

[sprucetip]

Websleuths Lingo

Thanks, but I looked there lol. No DBM...

 

[copkid]

No, we don't know whose suit it was, and since it was presumably incinerated, we will probably never know. I read in an article somewhere that Professor Dyck was on the trip to collect samples, so it doesn't make much sense that he would have brought a suit. Plus from my own experience majoring and working in the life sciences, most biology professors don't even wear suits unless they're going to a really fancy conference or something. They usually wear some kind of jeans and sweater type of thing. They have to spend time in the lab too in the course of a normal day (even if they don't do lab work themselves they check on the work that is being done), and a suit isn't good lab wear. Personally I would bet money that the suit was Bryer's especially given that his dad thought it was a significant enough thing to mention in the interview.

JMO, I feel BS's father discussing the suit in those early days was his attempt at trying to paint a picture of his son as a "good decent boy".

When I first heard about the suit I felt it was bought for BS's potential funeral which led me to think this crazy crime filled adventure was planned in advance and BS knew he would not come out alive.

It would be interesting to know where this "suit" actually is but I am guessing it is just another question, in the long list, that we may never have an answer to.

 

[minorone]

Oh that's really interesting--thanks for pointing that out! I tried to do that when they were leaving with the door, but KM was tilting his head, so it's hard to tell, though BS's shoulders look about a good 4 inches taller than KM's on the red height measurement thing on the side. I drew a line on BS's shoulder and then 2 lines on KM's picture: one for his shoulder and one for a comparison point of where BS's shoulder was.

I tried to do a screencap for comparison's sake, though in the past my file images are too big, so here goes trying to resize it. Apologies in advance if I mess it up:

View attachment 196960 View attachment 196961
Source of images:

I tried to mark the height of both of their shoulders when they walk past the shelving corner #19. It is tricky but I think Kam is taller, but not by much. Also walking out the door Kam looks a bit taller to me, but I think Bryer is a bit slouched.

 

[Moonlitnight]

Something concerning was.... the guy says 'apparently they are looking for 2 guys and there is a canada wide warrant' .... so this guy didn't even know???? There are still people that are not aware??? lol

I found that part pretty amazing as well.

 

[sprucetip]

In my (very speculative) opinion the suit had more of a symbolic significance for Bryer. First of all, he bought it with one of his first paychecks when most 18 year olds would rather spend their paychecks on literally anything else, so you would think that means it would be important. And if the CBC interview of the alcohol checkpoint officer is accurate and it was the same suit, he a) took it to the Yukon in the first place when there aren't many formal events in the Yukon, and b) specifically transferred it from the first car to the second when they were most likely in a rush to grab belongings and set the first car on fire before being seen. What that symbolic significance was, or whether it can give any insight into the overall mindset of the pair at the time, is anyone's guess.



I looked at the video again and you're right, they do look to be similar height compared to that thing on the corner of the shelf. The other photo could have been older maybe.



As I said before, at this point I only see three options:

a) It was planned and they completely failed in almost every way imaginable at planning it properly (because if they planned it properly, they could have gotten away with it with nobody suspecting them, and not led the cops directly to them). Which means that, of course they probably wouldn't properly research the river conditions in the area either.

b) It was planned but intended to be a suicide mission from the start with various clues to keep LE trailing them until they ended it all in the wilderness and were never found, leaving a mystery for the ages of "did they really get away with it?" In that case potentially drowning in rapids would probably be an attractive possibility to them due to the low likelihood of their remains being found.

c) None of this was planned at all and they were freaking out in total "oh s***" mode the entire time and acting in a reactionary and impulsive way, fleeing to the most remote area they could think of with little to no research (how would they even research because as far as I've heard, they weren't even using cell phones at all after the murders) and that had predictable consequences. Looking back on their actions, I'm suspecting more and more that this is what actually happened.



Same. I also don't realistically see them being able to kill another person or steal another car in the Gillam area without it being discovered by now, considering the entire community is on high alert. Or to go two weeks on the roads without any confirmed sightings or CCTV footage (they have to stop for gas sometime). The only thing I can think of is maybe if they went through the woods all the way to the Moak Lake or Thompson area around where 280 is, and took a vehicle from there. But that seems highly improbable for a variety of reasons, not least of which is those communities are probably on the lookout for anything suspicious too.

I think you’re spot on with C. All their actions point to them not planning this, plus them being nervous and paranoid in every encounter with people. It all adds up to them just winging it as they went.

 

[NJSleuth91]

JMO, I feel BS's father discussing the suit in those early days was his attempt at trying to paint a picture of his son as a "good decent boy".

When I first heard about the suit I felt it was bought for BS's potential funeral which led me to think this crazy crime filled adventure was planned in advance and BS knew he would not come out alive.

It would be interesting to know where this "suit" actually is but I am guessing it is just another question, in the long list, that we may never have an answer to.

But his dad wasn't discussing it in the context of him being a "good decent boy." He specifically discussed it to say that now he thought that Bryer bought the suit for his funeral. This interview was given after the two had already been charged for Professor Dyck's murder. It was the same interview where he said that the two were going to go out in a "blaze of glory" because they "wanted their pain to end" and that they would be "dead by today or tomorrow." (I saw an article with the full interview yesterday but now I can't find it...should have bookmarked it.)