Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Snoop Sister]

I'm simply amazed at how Mr. Ste. Croix has suddenly progressed from a guy pulling a vehicle out of a mud ditch to such an expert criminal psychologist on Kam/Bryer - consider he had no clue who they were until his wife showed him the missing alert on her facebook. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

Yeah, I take what he says with a grain of salt,

 

[Schmoosh]

I know the witness got a "bullied" impression from them, but I don't know that that gels with what has been presented about their life in Port Alberni. If anything, Bryer seems like he had a tendency to bully people himself. Kam was described as not having lots of friends, but it seems like he was well-liked in general by his friends and acquaintances and not regarded as an outcast weirdo.

I'm wondering if being on the run was what was bullying them, if that makes sense--stressing them out and making them give off that vibe more than they ordinarily would.

He actually didn't get that from their vibe - he got that impression from reading up on them once he learned about them. At least that's the way I read the article. I wonder where he got his 'research' from.

When helping them, they were the nicest guys! Once he learned, and read up more, he still thought they were the nicest guys - who were bullied and yeah, "totally guilty".

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah, I see the similarities as well.

Their crime is different, but they do seem to have similar backgrounds to many of these mass shooters.

We're lucky they didn't do a mass shooting, 3 victims is 3 too many. Canada doesn't have many mass shootings and I hope it stays that way!

 

[NJSleuth91]

Off topic - has anyone noticed this thread is at 136 pages? Where's the new thread? lol

Mods are asleep...time to speak of politics.

I'm generalizing here but in a way KMBS fall into that same demographic that many shooters seem to have - young, male, anti-social, no girlfriends/love life, isolated, not much going on for future plans, hanging in basements, attracted to violence, mad at the world, resenting people who might have successful lives, too much screen time (being isolated this might reinforce detachment from reality/human interaction in a way), etc. This is all JMO

Yeah, I see the similarities as well.

Their crime is different, but they do seem to have similar backgrounds to many of these mass shooters.

Yeah I shared this article from NPR about school shooters the other day. It all sounds very familiar to this case.

School Shooters: What's Their Path To Violence?

 

[Zella]

He actually didn't get that from their vibe - he got that impression from reading up on them once he learned about them. At least that's the way I read the article. I wonder where he got his 'research' from.

When helping them, they were the nicest guys! Once he learned, and read up more, he still thought they were the nicest guys - who were bullied and yeah, "totally guilty".

I think he is trying to reconcile his perception of how they came across to him with what he has read--as are many people, including apparently BS's great-uncle--but yes I don't think that quite makes sense in context of their established histories.

 

[Zella]

Mods are asleep...time to speak of politics.

SBM



I keep wanting to drop that "speak of politics" line from BS on some unsuspecting soul, but it's so creepy, I'm afraid to use it on anyone outside of this forum who wouldn't get the reference!

 

[Schmoosh]

I'm simply amazed at how Mr. Ste. Croix has suddenly progressed from a guy pulling a vehicle out of a mud ditch to such an expert criminal psychologist on Kam/Bryer - considering he had no clue who they were until his wife showed him the missing alert on her facebook. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

My impression as well!

 

[Snoop Sister]

[QUOTE="JuneBug67, post: 15322683, member: 97619"]They can’t comment about individual students even if they wanted to because of privacy laws. And they definitely wouldn’t want to! LOL.

Yes, I know that MoE couldn’t comment because of privacy. I was responding to someone who thought the Ministry of Education would be informed of developments in this case lol. He asked how would you respond as MoE if approached by reporters or something to that effect.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

We have to consider they are capable of killing sleeping occupants of a roadside vehicle in cold blood, for their own pleasure.

Meadow Lake video shows no outward signs that they maliciously murdered a driver and drove his vehicle for almost 48 hours.

Definitely. I think the police probably know how it all unfolded. If no trial, have to wonder if the public will be informed though.

 

[Schmoosh]

I'm simply amazed at how Mr. Ste. Croix has suddenly progressed from a guy pulling a vehicle out of a mud ditch to such an expert criminal psychologist on Kam/Bryer - considering he had no clue who they were until his wife showed him the missing alert on her facebook. (yes, I'm being sarcastic)

And for a guy who works 17 hours a day, how much reading up on this could he have done? LOL

 

[JuneBug67]

SBM



I keep wanting to drop that "speak of politics" line from BS on some unsuspecting soul, but it's so creepy, I'm afraid to use it on anyone outside of this forum who wouldn't get the reference!

You can normal it up by adding that you’re particularly interested in Presidential candidate Mike McLeeOdd.

 

[otto]

Definitely. I think the police probably know how it all unfolded. If no trial, have to wonder if the public will be informed though.

There will be a report. All the words will be very carefully chosen to avoid perception of impropriety. It will take time. All five families, victims and suspects, want answers.

 

[Zella]

If that's the pick-up line kids these days are using, no wonder there are so many 'incels'! LOL

Earlier on a previous thread when it was suggested BS and KM had met some girls who were hiding them out, all I could think of was how Bryer apparently creeping out most people he came into contact with pretty much eliminated him from scoring any chicks or charming them into hiding him while he was on the lam.

 

[JuneBug67]

[QUOTE="JuneBug67, post: 15322683, member: 97619"]They can’t comment about individual students even if they wanted to because of privacy laws. And they definitely wouldn’t want to! LOL.

Yes, I know that MoE couldn’t comment because of privacy. I was responding to someone who thought the Ministry of Education would be informed of developments in this case lol. He asked how would you respond as MoE if approached by reporters or something to that effect.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. Sorry if that wasn’t clear!

 

[Zella]

You can normal it up by adding that you’re particularly interested in Presidential candidate Mike McLeeOdd.

LOL

Shh! I don't want anyone outside this forum to know I'm that bad at sounding out relatively simple names in my head!

 

[otto]

Earlier on a previous thread when it was suggested BS and KM had met some girls who were hiding them out, all I could think of was how Bryer apparently creeping out most people he came into contact with pretty much eliminated him from scoring any chicks or charming them into hiding him while he was on the lam.

Bryer looks pale, baby faced, tall and malnourished. His best friend is Kam. I think it's unlikely he has much experience with young women.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Someone needs to tell Sarah that BS and KM didn't embark on a journey across three states.

Who is Sarah?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I know the witness got a "bullied" impression from them, but I don't know that that gels with what has been presented about their life in Port Alberni.

If anything, Bryer seems like he had a tendency to bully people himself, and even when he creeped people out, their reactions seems to have been to ignore him/avoid him rather than bully him.

Kam was described as not having lots of friends, but it seems like he was well-liked in general by his friends and acquaintances and not regarded as an outcast weirdo by the community at large.

I get what you're saying but I think ignoring and avoiding can actually be just as isolating as bullying sometimes. I think Bryer was probably always weird, didn't know how to act properly, perhaps because of growing up in a dysfunctional home or whatever was organically wrong with him. A lot of kids who grow up with violence nad instability have outbursts and stuff like that. So people would reject him. They probably had a good reason to do so, but still. Eventually he just decided to start trolling and bullying people, and creeping them out on purpose, as sort of a defense mechanism. Like "well at least now they hate me because I wanted them to hate me." I just feel like this whole militia and playing "survivalist" games thing was this whole subconscious metaphorical manifestation of his (and probably Kam's) whole mindset, of like wanting to have this close group of friends to hide out with and fight back against the rest of the threatening world.

Even for Kam people said he was nice but they also said he didn't have many close friends. Perhaps even though he had friends he wasn't particularly close to most of them. Or his friends were the other "outcast weirdos" so he still felt rejected by society at large. Especially because of being in the alternative school program and things like that. Even if we don't see why he would have an "us against the world" mindset, maybe from his perspective that's how he felt.

But, all of this is conjecture...who knows, I could be totally wrong....

 

[modernpenny]

A lot to unpack in all the recent updates and threads. Now that the unease is laid to rest of them still being alive and out there, my heart aches for every one involved, the victims & their families, BS and KM, and their families too.

To know your son/brother/grandson/nephew committed heinous acts and you didnt see it coming leaves a lot for their families to sift through and try to reason with. They will also be forever scarred from this situation and it will be a long time before they can return to any semblance of normalcy.

I am sure LE will eventually shed light onto how and why this happened, as much as they are able to share with the public, which will not be every thing.

The real take away from this for me is that hindsight is a , but how does anyone think these kind of things would be acted out by their loved one?

Whatever led up to the crimes, I think these were 2 young men who made some rash decisions for whatever reason, got incredibly out of their depth and just continued to make poor decisions as they panicked and saw no way out. Their bodies were found 8km from the burnt out RAV4, which is around a 2 hour walk, probably more based on the area they were in.

They probably hiked there, exhausted and just gave up on running, and ended their own internal battles at the same time. Really, they had to realize that if caught their next home would be prison and I suppose to them, death was a better alternative.


I in no way excuse any of their terrible choices over the last few weeks, but I do have sympathy for undiagnosed mental health problems and a lack of resources to remedy failing minds/lost souls.

A lot of families were torn apart during this entire ordeal. I particularly feel sad for KMs sister, as before his facebook was shut down the only posts visible to the public were ones where she had obviously gone onto his facebook and updated it with silly things like "(her name) is the best sister ever!!!" Etc.

Terrible all around. RIP to that beautiful couple and to that kindly looking botanist. I am a botanist as well so that one particularly hit close to home.

 

[Zella]

Bryer looks pale, baby faced, tall and malnourished. His best friend is Kam. I think it's unlikely he has much experience with young women.

Agreed. I've never heard any mention of either one of them having a girlfriend or dating. I don't recall either having any female friends--at least none who came forward. It was always other guys. I suspect Bryer was probably really awkward around girls, and Kam may have also been quite shy around them, too.