Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Seattle1]

Privacy laws are here to stay. The government and police never wanted them but they have been forced to adopt them because of pressure from citizens who don't want the government to misuse the large amount of information they collect and keep about citizens in the modern, computerized, state. It's an aspect of human rights. I'm allowed to die without the whole world knowing and speculating about my private agony by the side of a highway.

It makes things much harder for the RCMP, but they have no choice. They can tell us it was a homicide, but the details can't be released without the family's permission, or unless they must reveal them in order to carry out their duties, eg prosecute at a trial. Whether police will decide it's necessary to fulfill their duties in writing some kind of public report, I don't know.

Better get used to it: in Canada you are not entitled to learn private things about other people from the police.

Canadian privacy law - Wikipedia

Then why is it they released that the couple died of gun violence?

It doesn't follow they didn't do the same for LD before or after he was identified. I don't think the public is asking for all the gory details.

MOO

 

[Gina20]

Would it be the police who provide this info though? Isn't this up to a coroner? The RCMP were involved in Ben Kilmer's disappearance here on Vancouver Island but the coroner released the cause of death: 'Public interest' prompts B.C. coroner to release details in death of Ben Kilmer.
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/wife-seeks-to-stop-release-of-details-of-vancouver-island-man-ben-kilmers-death

If there is no inquest, then it is up to the police?

 

[Zella]

Now...I call you a TRUE WebSleuth! Nicely done!

Aww thanks! I'm kicking myself for not checking the screenshots earlier! In any event, I found them late last night right before bed, was absolutely gobsmacked by that first one, and didn't have time to post but knew I had to share on here with my fellow sleuths.

 

[Optics]

Then why is it they released that the couple died of gun violence?

They (the RCMP) didn't release it - the Aussie media did. We don't know if they mined that information from family members or how the reporter got the information. The RCMP only acknowledged gunshot way later.

 

[olivebpa1]

It will all come out in the end but LE has a responsibility to BS, KM and their families too. They can't make allegations against the two without having rock solid evidence. They need to complete their investigation.

I agree. These 2 will not have a chance to defend themselves in court. Whatever the RCMP concludes will be how they are remembered. It’s important to get it right.

 

[Zella]

Then why is it they released that the couple died of gun violence?

It doesn't follow they didn't do the same for LD before or after he was identified. I don't think the public is asking for all the gory details.

MOO

The RCMP never officially released that. I think LF's dad did and Australian media said that, but RCMP, to my knowledge, has never said how any of the 3 homicide victims died.

 

[aphoto]

Why do you think they are incompetent?

Lots of reasons. They have botched a lot of elements of the investigation and search. Lots of errors have been reported in the press, mostly by Australian media. Before anyone criticizes the media for that reporting it is their job to hold power to account.

The keys are one of the latest major failings, makes me wonder what else they might have missed in the vicinity of the burnt RAV4. Perhaps there was further clues of their direction of travel that could have lead to arresting them and not finding them dead.

I’m also very concerned the police never interviewed or followed up with the cab driver to determine who it was who called wanting a ride to Bird. I don’t think for a second that it was KM or BS but it could well be someone they knew? I think it’s nonsense to think a 3rd person was physically involved in the murders but there has to be a reason they chose remote northern Manitoba and perhaps that phone call would answer that. It wouldn’t be hard for RCMP to get his phone records.

I’m not at liberty to disclose everything at this point but I feel confident enough to say I believe they up a lot along the way.

 

[Gina20]

They (the RCMP) didn't release it - the Aussie media did. We don't know if they mined that information from family members or how the reporter got the information. The RCMP only acknowledged gunshot way later.

But the RCMP did eventually release it, when they could have continued to neither confirm nor deny. Without the leak, no release about gun violence, in order to respect the privacy of the suspects/victims? FGS.

 

[scrappinkat]

Wow. I thought Websleuths would be about discussing possibilities and alternate theories, not just hammering out the mainstream view. If you're just going to go with the scenario the cops have given you without any evidence, what's the point of talking about it? Having another suspect involved is not a conspiracy. This case makes no sense. Maybe the cops have something wrong. It would be nice to hear ideas from people and not be shut down. I have learned from my life that truth can be a lot stranger than fiction.

It does seem that only the mindset of Mcleod and Schmegelsky went on hatred filled gamer induced killing spree is accepted here, at times it almost seems to be presented with glee. I don’t know if the cops have something wrong or not, they haven’t divulged enough information to really form an opinion on that either way. IMO though they did seem to jump the gun so to speak on naming Mcleod and Schmegelsky as suspects in the murders of Fowler and Deese, and IF that’s the case I do hope the public is informed. On the other hand I do accept that the RCMP must have received a lot of tips when they released the two sketches, and there’s a good chance RCMP saw some of those tips providing information that links all three murders to Mcleod and Schmegelsky. Even if that’s the case I think we will learn the motive was not wanting to experience their Rust gameplay in real life. It’s going to be much more mundane than that.

 

[Zella]

But the RCMP did eventually release it, when they could have continued to neither confirm nor deny. Without the leak, no release about gun violence, in order to respect the privacy of the suspects/victims? FGS.

I think at that point, since LF's own father said it, they couldn't then claim it was a matter of respecting the family's privacy.

 

[FactFinder3000]

The RCMP never officially released that. I think LF's dad did and Australian media said that, but RCMP, to my knowledge, has never said how any of the 3 homicide victims died.

They did. After their hand was basically forced by the Australian media, the RCMP finally stated what they should have stated days prior, namely that the victims were shot.

 

[Errrr]

My wife is an ex Children’s Services Social Worker and when I talk to her about these two she repeats a saying of hers: it takes a lot to ruin a kid.

That’s not to lay blame, or at least all of the blame, on parents/family. But it often feels like we as a society have a sort of “not my business-let the chips fall where they may” attitude for troubled kids.

I don’t think they necessarily had to be that bad. They just graduated from alternative high school which puts them on the successful end of troubled. Unfortunately, Put guns in the hands of teenagers and a significant number will look for an opportunity to use it. The whole incident could have snowballed from there, with one bad decision after another. They seem to have had something in mind the parents wouldn’t approve of, after reading BSs fathers text. It appeared there was some reluctance to let his father know just where they were headed. He took his computer with him so I doubt the intention was to rough it in the bush. I still think the vehicle fires were accidental, implausible as it may seem. Makes more sense than drawing attention to themselves. The whole thing may have been comic if it weren’t so tragic. JMO

 

[sandbar]

sandbar:

"The question is: did Picton's victims families have any say in whether that info was released? I don't know..."

But look at who the victims were, KWIM?

YES! exactly... (but i don't know what KWIM is)

 

[musicaljoke]

Let me clarify, I never said the Australian police offered assistance "with the investigation". I merely said "with the assistance of Australian police". Acting as a liaison and pleading for public's help with the investigation is still "assistance", no matter how small.

If I was one of the RCMP officers working the case, I would totally want the Aussie police guys in the back of my cruiser! What a blast that would be, listening to a couple of cheeky mates sharing woolly stories as we put the mileage on. I know that they couldn't work in any official capacity surrounding evidence, but gosh, wouldn't there be work to do for two skilled volunteers? I would have put in a request.

 

[Zella]

t does seem that only the mindset of Mcleod and Schmegelsky went on hatred filled gamer induced killing spree is accepted here, at times it almost seems to be presented with glee.

SBM

I think a lot of that is simply based on how active they seemed to be in the gaming community. Everyone interviewed about them mentions that they loved video games, and their social media presence also seemed heavily centered around it. Other than that and camping--oh and maybe Nazism, if we can call that a hobby--I'm not sure what other hobbies they had.

For what it's worth, I don't think video games solely caused them to do anything they did--people are more complex than that--but it was apparently such a central aspect of their socializing and daily lives that it would be unusual not to wonder if they derived inspiration from it or had a distorted view of reality from it.

 

[otto]

Then why is it they released that the couple died of gun violence?

It doesn't follow they didn't do the same for LD before or after he was identified. I don't think the public is asking for all the gory details.

MOO

Lucas Fowler's father released the information about how his son died. RCMP confirmed the information a few days later.

 

[sandbar]

I don’t think they necessarily had to be that bad. They just graduated from alternative high school which puts them on the successful end of troubled. Unfortunately, Put guns in the hands of teenagers and a significant number will look for an opportunity to use it. The whole incident could have snowballed from there, with one bad decision after another. They seem to have had something in mind the parents wouldn’t approve of, after reading BSs fathers text. It appeared there was some reluctance to let his father know just where they were headed. He took his computer with him so I doubt the intention was to rough it in the bush. I still think the vehicle fires were accidental, implausible as it may seem. Makes more sense than drawing attention to themselves. The whole thing may have been comic if it weren’t so tragic. JMO

Do you have a link to the article that says he took his computer?

 

[Kittybunny]

"that is the Canadian way". Maybe being the Canadian way is a good thing, so we don't end up hearing and reading a bunch of fake news.

There is the matter of accountability too though. I don't think the RCMP did anything wrong though. I think based on a lot of wild speculation about someone else being responsible for any or all of the murders, it might be best to put those rumors to rest since even some folks here say there is no evidence that that the two young men did it.

‘Murder is not a private matter’: RCMP owe public more answers about suspected B.C. killers, critics say | The Star

 

[SnooperDuper]

Lots of reasons. They have botched a lot of elements of the investigation and search. Lots of errors have been reported in the press, mostly by Australian media. Before anyone criticizes the media for that reporting it is their job to hold power to account.

The keys are one of the latest major failings, makes me wonder what else they might have missed in the vicinity of the burnt RAV4. Perhaps there was further clues of their direction of travel that could have lead to arresting them and not finding them dead.

I’m also very concerned the police never interviewed or followed up with the cab driver to determine who it was who called wanting a ride to Bird. I don’t think for a second that it was KM or BS but it could well be someone they knew? I think it’s nonsense to think a 3rd person was physically involved in the murders but there has to be a reason they chose remote northern Manitoba and perhaps that phone call would answer that. It wouldn’t be hard for RCMP to get his phone records.

I’m not at liberty to disclose everything at this point but I feel confident enough to say I believe they ****** up a lot along the way.

The Australian press has been both unfair and inaccurate all the way through this. They reported the search had moved to Ontario when it had remained focused in Gillam until the end.

Why elevate this one tip from the cabbie over the other 1,000 tips that were received? Is it really important in any way, or is it just the only news that the "reporter" was able to "investigate"? You make it sound like it was the one tip that was going to break the case wide open, and it's definitely not that.

It seems that you can't come up with any solid examples of how the RCMP failed. You're fixated on the keys and the cabbie. Do you honestly have any REAL examples of how the RCMP failed?

 

[September23]

DBM