Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[oceanblueeyes]

It's a myth that any airsoft handgun or long gun cant be deadly. They have been used in homicides as well as accidental deaths when the trigger was pulled against another person.

The US Safety Council states about 4 people every year are killed, and many more seriously injured with an airsoft weapon which now looks just like real weapons.

Airsoft guns have been used in armed robberies, rapes, and other violent crimes. Since they look just like the real deal the defendants are charged with being ARMED because they do have the capacity to gravely injure or even kill.

Airsoft guns have a high pressure capacity causing the metal pellets to come out of the gun barrel at a very high velocity.

The criminals just remove the neon identifier tip making it look just like a real firearm.

Jmho

 

[Jessthinkin]

No one is drawing conclusions. However, I've been asked to analyze surveillance videos frame by frame, and they can be very short but still quite useful. Analysis of body language and facial expression should in fact be done frame by frame first, then in larger bits, otherwise a lot of microexpressions go missed.

You had me at ‘microexpressions’!
Seriously, though, I completely agree.

 

[scrappinkat]

To me suspicious death is an overdose or due to drugs.

 

[CanadianMade]

For him to use the term “”airsoft” I do assume that is what he bought. Money seemed tight for him and there’s a good chance he was a little surprised at prices, plus it was requested so I assume he would have made sure to get what had been asked for. Technically airsoft is an air gun, so is a pellet gun depending on model.

He apparently knew what kind of cologne to get him. I would also assume he confirmed what he was buying. I realize people don't trust his words right now, and I get why, but I think any parent buying a gift(especially one who is not in the picture that much...I can safely say this from experience) would confirm they were getting the right thing.

 

[10ofRods]

Probably murder, but possibly murder/suicide.

Lots of people commit murder/suicide in their cars. An elderly couple did that near me this week.

ETA, no idea where the quote went, but I was responding to @webbie

“Suspicious deaths” doesn’t mean there is a killer on the loose.

Yes, several here have said that any Canadian would think that was the case, when combined with RCMP are investigating. It doesn't mean that to me (or to you, I guess) but several Canadians have said they would assume it was something really sinister combined with RCMP involvement.

 

[Zella]

To me suspicious death is an overdose or due to drugs.

I an not Canadian so this is an American perspective, but I live in an area with a bad drug problem, and that's where my mind goes when that phrasing is reported.

He apparently knew what kind of cologne to get him. I would also assume he confirmed what he was buying. I realize people don't trust his words right now, and I get why, but I think any parent buying a gift(especially one who is not in the picture that much...I can safely say this from experience) would confirm they were getting the right thing.

BBM

Not only that, but these would have been expensive purchases. It's just common-sense to make sure you're spending all that money on the right thing! I don't doubt that BS's dad got the right cologne and the right airsoft weapon for him. Right being the one he wanted.

 

[grannygates]

as a canadian, a “suspicious death” means murder. “no foul play suspected” means suicide.

Eta overdose would be included in no foul play

 

[Kiantra]

That would likely be the third location that RCMP searched near Dease Lake, in addition to the burned truck and the roadside turnout where LD was discovered.

And if it IS true that they had been camping there for a few days, that would imply they headed from the crime scene near Liard Hotsprings back to Dease Lake almost directly. Then something triggered them to suddenly burn their camper, steal a vehicle and flee eastwards in a hurry, killing LD in the process.

This is the same question that I keep mulling over. Also, why head back the way they came after C and L? Where they thinking of going back home? What were they doing those few days in between the van and killing LD? And what changed or trigger them to torch the truck and camper and kill LD? So many questions.

 

[sandbar]

Okay, just saw the pic of the computer at the torched camper pick-up site. I have no idea how to post it here.

How do we know it isn't LD's computer? K&B could have thrown it and whatever else out of the Rav4 before they split. There's a blue "Lowe's" pail there too do we think that's K&B's too?

 

[MassGuy]

as a canadian, a “suspicious death” means murder. “no foul play suspected” means suicide.

Where does murder/suicide fit in?

Because that fits the definition of “foul play.”

 

[otto]

Totally agree. The only thing still puzzling me about the known chain of events are the weapons used and why the delay in torching the truck. Well, that's mainly it. Motive is well enough established, to my way of thinking, and it's what happened afterward (and why they so quickly went to killing their robbery victims) that interests me.

It should be common knowledge that if someone invades your space to rob you, you are at a much higher risk of being killed than if a person just comes inside to case your house. Most new robbers want a vacant house/car and are startled and apt to be quite violent if seen. One person (now serving life in prison in my jurisdiction) was breaking into a house when a teen came home from school unexpectedly. This previously non-violent burglar seized a knife in the kitchen and killed the teen. His reason? Not to be seen/caught.

There are two reason that murder occurs during robbery: to facilitate the commission of the offence, or to facilitate flight after committing the offence.

I suspect that none of the victims were ready to give the two young suspects their money or vehicle. Regardless, they were murdered so the suspects could evade detection.

 

[Satchie]

Yes, it seemed that way to me too which I took to assume that they are simply tired of hearing the same question from the media....though it IS a legitimate question as RCMP themselves are the ones who released that sketch asking for information on that person. What I also find interesting in that press conference is that he stated they have 'significant evidence' linking the murders, but there isn't enough for Crown to charge B and K with the first two.....meaning...not enough evidence to say they are the ones who killed them. If there isn't enough evidence for that, I myself take that to believe there was no DNA, no ballistics. "Significant" to one person could be the opposite to another. If they consider the fact that they could have been in the same area around that time to be significant then that's what they are going on. It's not like they have never assumed someone to be a suspect before and been wrong.

I think it was explained by the Assistant Commissioner in the press conference this week, that they hadn't fully processed all the forensic information. Not that the forensic info didn't exist.

I think in BC there is a constant backlog in both forensic testing, and in the prosecution office office laying charges. It took over six months for charges to be laid in a straightforward case of dangerous driving where I live. There was no risk of the suspect running away, so it just took ages.

I think forensic testing and laying charges are made a priority for only as long as police need to identify and arrest a suspect who they think will flee. Then the case goes back into the queue while other, earlier cases get prepared for trial. Sadly, there are many other criminal cases, with a lower public profile. For example, a female tourist from Belgium was murdered on a highway in BC last summer. There's been an arrest, but no further info on that case yet. Her family has never spoken to the media, that I'm aware of.

BC courts’ ‘culture of timeliness’ on cases can be a lesson to other provinces

ETA: corection, I realize it took over 6 months for charges in the local case here. But the case is no where near trial, well over a year later. Also adding, it involved a death, and devastated a family.

 

[Lorelei1]

Right, you didn’t mention ‘fancy’, but you said if KM’s family were well-off, then why did they buy him an ‘old’ ‘ beat up’ truck and camper. I apologize if my using the antonym ‘fancy’ wasn’t the one you were thinking of.

Did they recently purchase it for him? I imagined it had been in the family for years and they let KM use it for his big trip.

 

[CanadianMade]

Totally agree. The only thing still puzzling me about the known chain of events are the weapons used and why the delay in torching the truck. Well, that's mainly it. Motive is well enough established, to my way of thinking, and it's what happened afterward (and why they so quickly went to killing their robbery victims) that interests me.

I figure they could have stayed in the area and not torched the truck because they didn't know what to do yet. Took a few days to calm themselves so to speak.
We all know I don't think they commited all 3 murders, but I'm certainly willing to consider it a possibility.
So I'm trying to think like them as best I can without really knowing very well....If I had tried to break into a vehicle and ended up killing two people after things went the way I had not thought they would, I would certainly need to take a few steps back. Of course I would end up walking myself into a police station, but at 19 I may not have. Please don't consider me horrible for saying that. All I mean is I didn't always think clearly at that age so it is possible that they weren't either.

 

[Curiouspersonxyz]

RCMP and Notifying Next of Kin - Canada.ca

FWIW here is a copy of an RCMP news release from 2008 regarding their policy for notification of next of kin.

Thanks - I found this comment particularly noteworthy (as I have found myself wanting information and frequently refreshing my screen from day one). What I would like to
know and the priorities/time frame of law enforcement are very different.

“We are well aware that the world of media moves very quickly, is extremely competitive and that new information is constantly in demand. However, the reality is that police work is conducted in an environment in which premature release of information can have far-reaching consequences.”

 

[10ofRods]

It's a myth that any airsoft handgun or long gun cant be deadly. They have been used in homicides as well as accidental deaths when the trigger was pulled against another person.

The US Safety Council states about 4 people every year are killed with an airsoft weapon which now looks just like real weapons.

Airsoft guns have been used in armed robberies, rapes, and other violent crimes. Since they look just like the real deal the defendants are charged with ARMED robbery because they do have the capacity to gravely injury or even kill.

Airsoft guns have a high pressure capacity causing the metal pellets to come out of the gun barrel at a very high velocity.

Jmho

That's what I was thinking too. But, if I understand correctly, only the plastic pellets are sold in Canada? The price for a metal pellet gun isn't that different, and in fact, a non-Airsoft brand might be cheaper. We know that Bryer wanted a particular style, but I can't think of an Airsoft style that doesn't have knock-offs (as they are all knock-offs in the first place).

It's like how people say Kleenex when it isn't actually Kleenex. Or Windex.

We have the picture of Bryer with a realistic looking gun that is said to be some type of air gun, but my question is how would we know whether it is an actual Airsoft with plastic pellets? We don't know that.

Point blank, it could certainly incapacitate someone (perhaps not quickly) but we don't know cause of death for any of the victims and we do know that the suspects also had a very sharp knife. That could account for what was said about Chynna and her burial.

We don't even know if that gun was purchased at a store or at a swap meet or off some kind of Craigslist or other online listing. I am trying to account for the crimes based on the facts we actually have.

 

[Rottiluvr]

Did they recently purchase it for him? I imagined it had been in the family for years and they let KM use it for his big trip.

No idea.

 

[10ofRods]

I figure they could have stayed in the area and not torched the truck because they didn't know what to do yet. Took a few days to calm themselves so to speak.
We all know I don't think they commited all 3 murders, but I'm certainly willing to consider it a possibility.
So I'm trying to think like them as best I can without really knowing very well....If I had tried to break into a vehicle and ended up killing two people after things went the way I had not thought they would, I would certainly need to take a few steps back. Of course I would end up walking myself into a police station, but at 19 I may not have. Please don't consider me horrible for saying that. All I mean is I didn't always think clearly at that age so it is possible that they weren't either.

I am more than willing to consider your perspective and value it. People here in the states are asking the same questions, but we have a different relationship to our police (rather obviously).

I too think they needed to calm themselves after what I think may have been an unplanned pair of murders. In fact, since there are no eyewitnesses, we will never know exactly what transpired, but it's possible they simply meant to subdue the victims, but the victims were screaming and yelling and, being strangers to the area, K/B don't know who might be living nearby and hear. For some reason, my intuition (which can be wrong, obviously) is that one of them went psycho on the two victims and killed one of the victims without much forethought or any planning, and the other victim was killed to eliminate their testimony.

 

[scrappinkat]

It's a myth that any airsoft handgun or long gun cant be deadly. They have been used in homicides as well as accidental deaths when the trigger was pulled against another person.

The US Safety Council states about 4 people every year are killed with an airsoft weapon which now looks just like real weapons.

Airsoft guns have been used in armed robberies. Since they look just like the real deal the defendants are charged with armed robbery because they do have the capacity to gravely injury or kill.

Airsoft guns have a high pressure capacity causing the metal pellets to come out at a very high velocity.

Jmho

In Canada “airsoft” fires small plastic BBs only. The end must be painted orange to distinguish it as airsoft. (Changing the color of the end tip can be result in police charges)

Pellet guns and pellet rifles can shoot steel BBS, pellets or darts. As an aside the new airbow shoots pellets or arrows and is incredibly lethal. If under 500fps anyone can buy a pellet gun, although some shops won’t sell to kids without an adult present. For example the Red Ryder BB gun in The Christmas movie is available to buy off the shelf, sold as a pellet gun, and has a FPS under 500. The lower power pellet guns are not efficient for killing anything larger than a small squirrel or bullfrog, the efficiency decreases as distance between target and rifle increases.

High power pellet rifles over 500fps need a PAL in Canada.

A person can be charged with armed robbery even if it was only their hand in the shape of a handgun in their pocket. How lethal or not lethal a perceived weapon is/was doesn’t influence charges.

 

[grannygates]

Where does murder/suicide fit in?

Because that fits the definition of “foul play.”

i believe the very first reporting would say investigating a suspicious death, and once investigation concluded it would be reported as a murder suicide.