Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Francie Starr]

Oh, oh. So many posts without a new thread. Are we being closed down again, MODS? I really, really, really hope not.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Actually it sounds to me like “Seems like the RCMP doesn’t want Gillam people to be in the spotlight and to get any credit for having some role in the investigation”

I think it's just they still don't want to confirm leaks.

 

[JuneBug67]

There’s no question that the keys should have been promptly collected if they are relevant to the crime scene. I’m still catching up, but my impression had been that some journalists saw the keys, perhaps at different points over various days, but there is no clear information on if, how and when they left the scene. It’s unlikely the RCMP will spontaneously volunteer information in the matter, so we are really dependent on journalists to pose some questions to police and try to fill in the blanks.

Are the keys in fact related to the crime scene?
Is the advanced corrosion that is present consistent with the keys being related to the scene?
Does the key that appears to have a plastic ring around it in fact have a plastic ring around it? Is that consistent with being in an intense fire?
When were the keys first spotted?
Were they obscured or partially obscured under ash/debris, or out in the open?
In their original position when discovered, were they closer to the vehicle’s position when on fire, or closer to the position of the vehicle when flipped/pulled out?
When were the police notified there may be uncollected evidence?
If police responded to the scene to collect them, when did that happen?
If a police error was indeed made, are there mitigating circumstances the public should be aware of?
If a police error was made, what has been done to address it and any other potential oversights?

The keys should absolutely not be dismissed out of hand, but a lot also seems to be being assumed right now.

 

[srper2]

As someone who has been on the other side getting a painful notification of a family death, I would personally feel very uncomfortable in that moment as the reporter and wouldn't want to conduct that interview.

Unfortunately, if it is 60 Minutes Australia, one of their signature actions is to focus a camera directly into the face of the person who is reflecting on experiencing something terrible, then the reporter sits staring at them without saying a word, waiting for them to start to cry. Every time.

 

[webbie]

In particular the way AS, Bryer's father, who was the only family member speaking to the media, has stopped speaking since his coverage by the DM.

I believe AS stopped talking to the media because he signed an exclusive with 60 minutes Australia

 

[missy1974]

Your right so much to do and not enough folks to do it. Considering seeing the video of the fellas searching today and completely vanishing in seconds ... Maybe it was a really bad idea to be sifting dirt when in a "sitting duck" scenario. Perhaps the site was being protected from afar until the possibility of danger had passed?

If it was being protected, I don't think reporters would have been able to get photo's of the keys to begin with. I also recall seeing photo's/video's of the area after the vehicle was removed, it was not being protected. JMO

 

[minorone]

As someone who lives in B.C., Canada, I wish people would get over this need to think we weren't aware. As someone who checks local and national headlines every morning, I was aware of a suspicious death a day or 2 after it happened.

Canadians read the words 'suspicious death' and know somethings not right. We all know what suspicious death means....No definitive cause of death yet but be forewarned - you should be aware.

Too many people posting here from elsewhere think we weren't warned. We were warned...if we cared to pay attention to the news.

I am glad you are mentioning that Canadian feel they were adequately warned. It has been mentioned numerous times, but somehow it gets lost in all the rhetoric here about the RCMP not warning people to be careful.

Also some here keep referring to the failures of the RCMP, and all I can assume is they are from jurisdictions outside Canada and do not understand how our system works. LE has to be very selective with what information is released to the public as it could jeopardize the admissibility of evidence presented at the trial. The public here does not expect to know every detail pretrial. Also the victim's family has a right to request that the information not be made public and the system respects their right to privacy.

I have followed some cases in other countries where prosecutors hold pretrial conferences sensationalizing the evidence and the case. If that happened here, it would not be admissible evidence at the trial.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Alan Schmegelsky, Bryer's dad, is going to be on an episode of "60 Minutes" in Australia this coming Sunday to talk about this case. I think we will hear a lot more from him. He's been the most outspoken family member right from the start. I don't doubt he's heart broken, but I think he somewhat likes the attention or is just a talkative guy. I also think he even mentioned himself that he has substance abuse issues or mental health issues, which makes it even more likely he'll continue his emotional spiels
jmo!

I actually feel a lot of empathy for AS. He seems to have been broken, and heart-broken, for some time. His suffering feels (to me) genuine and engulfing.

 

[Zella]

Unfortunately, if it is 60 Minutes Australia, one of their signature actions is to focus a camera directly into the face of the person who is reflecting on experiencing something terrible, then the reporter sits staring at them without saying a word, waiting for them to start to cry. Every time.

I wouldn't have a job with them for very long, but I couldn't do that. If I'd been assigned to be with him for those couple of weeks, I'd have probably just told AS that he would probably regret giving an interview at that moment right after receiving that notification.

In any event, I think knowing they've been with him for 2 weeks explains his radio silence otherwise. Also, I noticed his book was only reported on by more tabloidy publications. I think more legitimate news media probably recognized it was unseemly to continue pouncing on him for a soundbite in that state.

 

[Kubirai]

The other keys look like file cabinet keys (or perhaps other cabinets), a house key, and then, there's a leatherman tool (which botanists like and carry).

The keys were found outside a Toyota RAV4, IIRC. The van was not stolen and didn't work, so it makes little sense for K/B to carry around an extra set of keys (they could have just taken the leatherman tool).

Based on the items left behind in the RAV4, the fugitives bolted from the area very quickly, probably expecting the Split Lake band Constables to call Gillam RCMP.

Prof. Dyck may have maintained an office at UBC Botany Dept after retirement, with several filing cabinets.

 

[srper2]

Your right so much to do and not enough folks to do it. Considering seeing the video of the fellas searching today and completely vanishing in seconds ... Maybe it was a really bad idea to be sifting dirt when in a "sitting duck" scenario. Perhaps the site was being protected from afar until the possibility of danger had passed?

If they felt too at risk to investigate, they could have secured the scene and waited until it was safe to sift! I have seen plenty of tented and cordoned sites at scenes like this on the news. By the time they would have been checking the burnt vehicle, it was pretty obvious CM and BS had met numerous other people, including local police and had hurt or killed nobody apart from Mr Dyck, and we still have not been told how he died.

 

[Zella]

I believe AS stopped talking to the media because he signed an exclusive with 60 minutes Australia

I agree.

I actually feel a lot of empathy for AS. He seems to have been broken, and heart-broken, for some time. His suffering feels (to me) genuine and engulfing.

I might be a soft touch, but I feel the same way. I don't think he necessarily makes good decisions in regard to talking to the press, but I still feel really bad for him. That interview he gave when he just thought they were missing was very raw. I've said it before on here and sincerely don't mean to sound like a broken record, but he reminds me of people I've known--incidentally from working in a public library--who were not well and were really hurting. I think the only person in his life as a family or friend was probably Bryer, and now he's gone, and in the worst way imaginable.

 

[srper2]

I wouldn't have a job with them for very long, but I couldn't do that. If I'd been assigned to be with him for those couple of weeks, I'd have probably just told AS that he would probably regret giving an interview at that moment right after receiving that notification.

In any event, I think knowing they've been with him for 2 weeks explains his radio silence otherwise. Also, I noticed his book was only reported on by more tabloidy publications. I think more legitimate news media probably recognized it was unseemly to continue pouncing on him for a soundbite in that state.

They would be paying him for his exclusive story, knowing he is in severe financial hardship and extremely vulnerable.

 

[Francie Starr]

Disappearing acts. There's a long history of a welcoming north to charlatans, vagabonds, scalawags and worse. Here's a neat backgrounder...
Hidden Among Us

 

[Jessthinkin]

I agree. It’s affecting me & I haven’t met any of the people directly involved. It’s affecting everyone on this forum — if you are in fact people. And it’s affecting people in three countries plus at least England (someone mentioned being from England). I’ve thought about it constantly for three weeks.

Me too... during quiet moments I unintentionally notice my mind present with LF and CD at the side of the highway. I try to replace that scene with the happier one of them on video at the gas station. They seemed like joyful, wonderful people.

 

[Gina20]

Well, I did say it's "usually" pretty bang on with the accuracy vice "always". Reading papers each morning is something I do as part of the position that I'm employed in - along with various messages and departmental-wide stuff. I've noticed that the G&M rarely needs to post a retraction or correction to an article as opposed to, say, the Sun network papers, Tor Star, National Post etc. They are also the Cdn distributor for the NY Times.

I view the G&M as a centre-right paper. It's reportage seems to be much less biased than Sun, Tor Star (affectionately - or not - known as The Red Star), NP, etc that are based nationwide.

I mentioned some of their "breaks" and investigative journalism such as the SNC Lavalin Scandal and W-R … all of which the government denied - until they could deny no more. G&M also uncovered a previous Government's AdScam which resulted in trials of some persons involved.

As for the Australian Press breaking the cause of death; yes they did. The RCMP had asked for the CoDs to be withheld though I will point out. The Cdn Press (all of it, not just the G&M) tend follow what LE Agencies request when an investigation is on-going which it was at that time. IMO, some Cdn press also knew the CoD but chose to stick with Cdn press standards and not publish. Just as the Homolka trial, all Cdn Press tracked it and reported, but the 'in-depth' details had to become known to Canadians via the US Press as this country had a publication ban on.

G&M tends to cover politics, the Feds, international items involving Canada, etc etc (which is why I read the papers in the mornings), law and business. Less of the Keeping up with the Ks entertainment and sports. More actual "news" and less "fluff". Any national newspaper in Canada has sources on the Hill. They use them too. Some sources are better than others.

The G&M is the national paper of record.

Oh, and IIRC, no news outlet found Karla - an author did and wrote a book about it; only once the book was ready to launch did the press get a wiff of her being found down south. And, when she was then "re-found" by a single reporter from the local Montreal Gazette … and every other paper in Canada picked it up from there, not just the G&M.

I read all about the preliminary hearing in the Bernardo/Homolka trial in the British press, which also did not follow the publication ban. The local news agent had it for sale. Later, after those papers were temporarily banned from sale, I had someone mail me articles.

 

[dameagatha]

Wow. I thought Websleuths would be about discussing possibilities and alternate theories, not just hammering out the mainstream view. If you're just going to go with the scenario the cops have given you without any evidence, what's the point of talking about it? Having another suspect involved is not a conspiracy. This case makes no sense. Maybe the cops have something wrong. It would be nice to hear ideas from people and not be shut down. I have learned from my life that truth can be a lot stranger than fiction.

The problem I have with some alternative theories on WS is they don’t start with the facts to build a narrative. They are heavy on complicated “what if” stories and light on known specifics. The evidence isn’t coming solely from RCMP. All kinds of people have contributed & tested the emerging picture without coming to conclusions: journalists, photographers, people from all walks of life on WS & many places in the world.

It is a truism that the hardest thing to see can be what is right in front of you. For me, seeing the size of the military response in Gillam shifted the weight of non-publicized evidence to proof, ie, what I don’t know but can indirectly see is happening. Sadly, governments don’t spend millions of dollars searching for nice boys.

 

[srper2]

Oh, oh. So many posts without a new thread. Are we being closed down again, MODS? I really, really, really hope not.

I am finding it great to read everyone's posts without getting lost and realising a new thread is happening!

 

[sandbar]

They would be paying him for his exclusive story, knowing he is in severe financial hardship and extremely vulnerable.

Are you sure AUS 60 Minutes pays people? Do you know how much?

 

[dameagatha]

I actually feel a lot of empathy for AS. He seems to have been broken, and heart-broken, for some time. His suffering feels (to me) genuine and engulfing.

They smiled & laughed a lot in photos, always goofing around. I keep thinking I need to try to enjoy life more, as they did. Prof Dyck, too. Happy people. There are so many lessons in this tragedy.