Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Esprite]

Perhaps this incident has already been posted. When RCMP Assistant Commissioner, Jane McClatchey, announced the probable deaths of the fugitives a few days ago, she reported that the RCMP had hundreds of leads, and followed up on all of them. This is the extent of their followup on July 31, 2019. The incident took place close to the Alberta/ Saskatchewan border. with about a 12 hour nonstop drive to Gillam.

Dakota Shepherd is a First Nations musician, and competitive powwow grass dancer. On his Facebook page, he reported that "you cant see it on film but they had fully auto sks's with a ten shot clip while wearing their bullet proof vests." One must wonder what the "heavy" guns would be.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/prince-albert-stop-1.5236228

 

[sprucetip]

Here's one:

• They decided Whitehorse wasn't their cup of tea, for whatever reason
• They started heading back towards home (fact)
• They camped in the Dease Lake area and thought "we just prepared to move away from our parents. Do we really want to just go back home?" They chat about where else to go
• Whoever was cooking in the camper was sloppy and accidentally set it on fire
• With no vehicle, they start hitchhiking
• Perp who really killed Dyck and stole his vehicle sees them hitchiking/or sees their camper on fire, and gives them a ride (they don't know he's a killer)
• Perp sells Dyck's vehicle to them, cheap, after getting to where he needs to go
• They carry on their merry way to where they had planned during the pre-fire chat

OK people, now tear this apart! LOL

Would they have had enough time to get to the Yukon? Even Watson Lake? I guess they had 2 days right? That’s pretty quick to make the decision to go back.

Also, I can’t remember, did they say the mystery bearded guy was heading south? Was his vehicle opposite LF/CD when he confronted them? I feel I recall he was and was walking across the Hwy?

 

[Gina20]

Just confirmed with a police source that the keys were only collected yesterday. They had sat out there for 19 days.

Note that the good people of the community left them there. Not like people in a big city, where someone took off with the wedding ring of a deceased car crash victim, but later turned it in after an emotional appeal from his widow, who wanted it for their toddler when he grew up.

I think it is another world up there.

 

[Kiantra]

Just confirmed with a police source that the keys were only collected yesterday. They had sat out there for 19 days.

Thank you for following up.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

No comment at this time. There is no way Ministry of Education would get involved in this mess. Imo

ETA unless under a subpoena

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think that “no comment” is suicidal, amounting to a declaration that you’re hiding something. It’s just a lot easier, not to mention the right thing, to review what happened.

I should make it clear that I’m talking about Schmegelsky, not McLeod, who was well out of the school system. Schmegelsky is a trickier issue.

Maybe I spent too many years involved in government damage control and am too sensitive, but any Minister that I’ve ever worked with would have a basic briefing on the facts by now, we’d be talking about any advisable next steps and there would be communications lines (Qs and As) already in place

 

[FactFinder3000]

That is the thing: the lack of sufficient evidence to meet the legal threshold for charges, qualified with "yet". Knowing that the Public Safety Minister found this case urgent enough to call on the military for assistance in the search, I doubt that the materials are languishing in someone's bottom drawer while they're on vacation.

Here's what an RCMP spokesperson said before the teens were found:
----

She also pushed back against any suggestion that the delay in laying charges is due to doubt that Schmegelsky and McLeod are the suspects who should be charged in Fowler and Deese’s deaths.

“It’s the process we have to go through, and we’re working through that now,” she said. “As you can imagine, with a double homicide, we have to have all the evidence in place, and it takes some time.

READ MORE: B.C. murder suspects spotted twice in northern Manitoba, police say

“There’s a volume of information we have to go through, but hopefully it won’t be too much longer.”

----

source: B.C. RCMP say they’re still working on charging suspects for Fowler, Deese murders

 

[elondriel]

The really big question is what happened when the suspects met the tourists. Why did Kam and Bryer stop at the van? What was their thinking? Were they initially planning to steal from what they assumed was an abandoned vehicle? How did things escalate to murder?

What would a 23 and 24 year old think about an 18 and 19 year old, and did they realize that their lives were in danger at the time that the teens stopped at the van?

We'll never know the answer, but that was the turning point in the entire manhunt.

I have wondered too if KM and BS got there and found them dead. Then having just the curiosity of looking at actual dead bodies rather than ones on video games got to them. (Think sort of Stand By Me, the sort of dark curiosity) Could have taken things from the van as well, or not, suppose it would depend on what went through their mind in the moment. (Do we take mementos or hey this is like raiding someone's loot in a game..type thoughts.)

As for LD, what if he was an accident? What if all the driving KM was tired and fell asleep at the wheel and accidentally ran him over, or BS was learning to drive and did the same. They torched their car in panic to hide the evidence on their vehicle and then freaked out and took his RAV.

From there it was just driving and trying to think what to do. If cell service is sketchy out there they would not know what was going on as far as an investigation. I think if they had seen they were wanted for questioning at least, they would have done more to get away from the cop at the checkpoint. Maybe it was after they got through that somehow they found at that much and panicked yet again, torched the RAV and took off into the bush, found the boat but were still too hurried to think about what they were doing. As others have said ended up flipping the boat or crashing it with one injured or both just soaked, got up onto the bank and a little ways in and succumbed to the cold. I feel they died the night they burned the RAV.

Anyhow just some musings if trying to figure out a way that things happened as they did without it being just completely cold blooded and at the same time ended up with the victims belongings.

 

[Schmoosh]

Would they have had enough time to get to the Yukon? Even Watson Lake? I guess they had 2 days right? That’s pretty quick to make the decision to go back.

Also, I can’t remember, did they say the mystery bearded guy was heading south? Was his vehicle opposite LF/CD when he confronted them? I feel I recall he was and was walking across the Hwy?

The bearded guy's vehicle was on the opposite shoulder, pointed south. He was standing in the middle of the road with both arms pointed down in frustration.

We don't know if the two ever actually went as far as the Yukon border, but something made them change their minds, head back to Dease Lake for at least one overnight, and change their plans to head east after looking like they were, in fact, at least headed for Whitehorse.

 

[Seattle1]

July 19, 2019

Two NSW homicide detectives will act as family liaisons after the son of one of the state’s top officers and his girlfriend were found dead along a Canadian highway.

They confirmed on Saturday that Fowler and his American girlfriend, Chynna Noelle Deese, were shot dead on Monday on the Alaska highway, 20km south of Liard Hot Springs, British Columbia. bbm

[...]

“The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) are an outstanding organisation, we have the utmost confidence in their capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers ... purely to assist the families,” he said.

“Just breaking down some of the communication and just really keeping us appraised and them appraised of what’s going on.”

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

ETA:
We owe a lot of gratitude here to the NSW detectives that announced the couple were shot dead.

It's my understanding this would never have come from RCMP, although they did offer "gun violence," but only after statements by NSW.

And nothing more since....

I believe that RCMP interviewed the suspects families, and soon learned of the make and model of gun in suspects possession.

I believe it likely LD also shot dead by same weapon as couple -- leading police to soon link the murders, and name the teens as suspects.

Allegations are not facts, but I believe given the teens also driving LD's stolen RAV4, the police had sufficient probable cause to charge BS/KM with the murder of LD.

Nothing in this post confirmed by RCMP, including talking to family. MOO

 

[Gina20]

Did he travel to Nanaimo? I had assumed he went to PA. I also assumed he had to get a hotel since BS's grandma was the ex-wife's mom, so he wouldn't have been welcome to stay, presumably.

Maybe not...AS had already travelled to Nanaimo for the visit when he learned that BS was gone. Maybe just on his way to PA.

 

[FactFinder3000]

U.B.C. and other Canadian universities accept mature students. Here are U.B.C.’s requirements:

Mature students - UBC | Undergraduate Programs and Admissions

There are a couple of universities in B.C. where the requirements may well be more relaxed. There’s also the whole community college system.

Which is why I stated it also varies with a student's situation.

Notable on that page: "You must be outside of full-time education for at least four years"

 

[Gina20]

July 19, 2019

Two NSW homicide detectives will act as family liaisons after the son of one of the state’s top officers and his girlfriend were found dead along a Canadian highway.

They confirmed on Saturday that Fowler and his American girlfriend, Chynna Noelle Deese, were shot dead on Monday on the Alaska highway, 20km south of Liard Hot Springs, British Columbia. bbm

[...]

“The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) are an outstanding organisation, we have the utmost confidence in their capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers ... purely to assist the families,” he said.

“Just breaking down some of the communication and just really keeping us appraised and them appraised of what’s going on.”

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

ETA:
We owe a lot of gratitude here to the NSW detectives that announced the couple were shot dead.

It's my understanding this would never have come from RCMP, although they did offer "gun violence," but only after statements by NSW.

And nothing more since....

I believe that RCMP interviewed the suspects families, and soon learned of the make and model of gun in suspects possession.

I believe it likely LD also shot dead by same weapon as couple -- leading police to soon link the murders, and name the teens as suspects.

Allegations are not facts, but I believe given the teens also driving LD's stolen RAV4, the police had sufficient probable cause to charge BS/KM with the murder of LD.

Nothing confirmed by RCMP, including talking to family. MOO

And not a peep about finding a gun, and no one who saw them with a gun. Although there was an L-shaped blur on the road by LF's van in images from the scene.

 

[Schmoosh]

Which is why I stated it also varies with a student's situation.

Notable on that page: "You must be outside of full-time education for at least four years"

That's interesting! Many years back, it used to be 2 years out of school (and 21 years old), but some yutes would be all "COOL! I don't have to even try to graduate high school. I can mess around for a few years and still get into university!" LOL

 

[dameagatha]

I don't know how dry the bush/brush is where they ditched the RAV4, but if they did accidentally go into the ditch and the brush was dry, and spent some time trying to get it out of there (like in Cold Lake), it could have ignited the brush and set the vehicle on fire.

In the on-camera interview with Billy Beardy he said there were matches on the ground around the Rav. The interviewer noticed an unlit match on the ground as they spoke. I would conclude the car was intentionally set on fire.

 

[10ofRods]

That's right! In fact, I assume if his father was still working in construction, that would have been an option for him. I suppose since he choose to instead work at Wal-Mart, he wasn't interested in doing it again. Or since he and Kam were so glued together, maybe he wouldn't have minded, but Kam was like, "Nope, I'm not doing construction with your dad."


That's interesting to me. As far as I know in the United States, if you want to enroll in a university, you need a high school diploma or an equivalency.

True, mostly, but you can enroll in a college (community college) without one (and be assessed for college readiness). A huge number of students in California will attempt this, but those without a high school diploma don't fare as well, as they are not used to performing in the type of environment we usually call a classroom.

California public universities, by contrast, will not take people without a high school diploma unless they successfully complete 60 units at the community college.

 

[Schmoosh]

In the on-camera interview with Billy Beardy he said there were matches on the ground around the Rav. The interviewer noticed an unlit match in the ground as they spoke. I would conclude the car was intentionally set on fire.

How does an unlit match prove a car fire?

 

[Zella]

True, mostly, but you can enroll in a college (community college) without one (and be assessed for college readiness). A huge number of students in California will attempt this, but those without a high school diploma don't fare as well, as they are not used to performing in the type of environment we usually call a classroom.

California public universities, by contrast, will not take people without a high school diploma unless they successfully complete 60 units at the community college.

Where I live, there is dual-enrollment at community colleges for high schoolers and not-for-credit classes one can take without a diploma. But the classes you enroll in for college credit, you need to have at least a GED if not a high school diploma to enroll. Ditto for the state university. I honestly had no idea that was an option in other places.

 

[dameagatha]

How does an unlit match prove a car fire?

It doesn’t. It was one of many matches observed by the first witness to find the Rav on fire.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I've actually wondered if the reason he didn't stay long with his dad is he wanted to return to PA to be close to KM. That friendship really does seem to be the one constant and strongest bond in his life. Living with his mom was apparently no longer an option, but grandma's house seemed to work out okay since he stayed there the past couple of years without any apparent issues.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kam was a major factor in him returning. At that age your friends are everything, and even more so if you don't have many close friends.

As I said the other day I suspect from what we've heard about his parents, his grandma was the only stable and consistent parental figure he had ever had, and that's why he was respectful around her.

I am 34 and I do not have a drivers license.....Never have. Never will.

I'm 27, live in the suburbs, and same...I haven't totally ruled out ever getting one, but definitely won't any time soon. I have the insight to know I would be a terrible driver due to my anxiety. It is unusual that Bryer didn't have a license, but it's possible it was due to something like anxiety. His dad did say in the interview "He hasn't been nurtured...nobody ever even taught him how to ride a bike." Since Kam and Bryer had been spotted hitchhiking, maybe Bryer even hitchhiked in Port Alberni to get around.

It could have been as simple as KM's dad saying "Look, you can't even get to work on time because you're up all night. You're obsessed with video games (heck, he was a moderator; that can consume a lot of time). Learn what working at a real job is for a few years and then I'll consider bringing you into/back into the business. Here's a truck camper to get you on your way."

It wouldn't be the first time a successful company-owning father has done it.

I'd bet this is what happened. If he didn't think Kam had the work ethic to handle a job at the company (which sounds like it could be potentially dangerous work), why would he risk accusations of nepotism and messing up operations? Instead better to wait until he matured a bit. 19 is kind of young to start out in the family business anyway.

Or court-ordered, as part of the custody agreement. It was stated that AS had supervised visits with his son. Why did he to travel to Nanaimo for visits, rather than PA -- more of the agreement?

Could also be part of some other juvenile court order. It was stated that he had run away.

Supervised visits also indicates, to me at least, some previous issue that made social workers think it was potentially unsafe for him to be around Bryer unsupervised, like drug use, violence, criminal charges, etc. I never heard before that Bryer ran away -- when did that happen?

 

[Optics]

It could have been as simple as KM's dad saying "Look, you can't even get to work on time because you're up all night. You're obsessed with video games (heck, he was a moderator; that can consume a lot of time). Learn what working at a real job is for a few years and then I'll consider bringing you into/back into the business. Here's a truck camper to get you on your way."

It wouldn't be the first time a successful company-owning father has done it.

Yes! @Schmoosh it could have been that or go to college in the fall. Also the issue Kam was a moderator Thanks for pointing that out - I feel there has been way too much focus on Bryer's video gaming but oversight on the fact that Kam was a moderator and right into video games too.