Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[10ofRods]

As I’ve just finished explaining to you (post #2376), it is highly unlikely that an illegal gun from an eBay seller in the US will get through. You’d have to be pretty stupid to even try it. There is also zero reason to believe that Schmegelsky Sr. would try to import a gun illegally. Frankly, he’s rather more likely to have purchased it in Port Alberni.

Unfortunately, "highly unlikely" describes this entire case, so I'm not persuaded. Mr. S (Bryer's dad) has whereabouts that are very, very unaccounted for. He comes and goes. I myself have experience of people smuggling things in and out of Canada (they may or may not have done so intentionally). Yes, I guess you'd have to be stupid or careless or just not care to try it.

But people do. My life is filled with people (in jail) who did things that are improbable. What you are telling me is that you and people you know wouldn't do it. But you are probably not very similar to Bryer or his dad.

How familiar are you with eBay and its policing of international sellers? I mean, really? Can you actually speak to that?

In the event that it was purchased in PA, then Mr. S had to have a PAL, if I am right about what type of gun it is (and I could be wrong). We cannot sleuth him, but I am quite doubtful that Mr. S is used to doing things out in the open and with concern for permits and licenses. I could be wrong. At any rate, the gun could be legally sold in Canada to someone over 18 who had a PAL. RCMP would know that already...I'm surprised that Mr S hasn't been charged, though.

At any rate, guns move in lots of directions that they ought not to.

 

[Schmoosh]

Which creek bed? Do you mean the shoreline of the Nelson River? It looks like there are quite a few places where are other rivers flowing into the Nelson, you'd need to wade through water.
I'm looking at the map of where the car was found and the boat, I wonder if they were stopping at the Sundance Camp? And then walked through there and onto the boat? The map is in this news article:
B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead

No, it's a creek bed that runs pretty much directly from where the RAV4 was found to the Nelson River, but most of it runs between and parallel to both the road and the river. If you Google map it and go on satellite view and zoom in, you'll see it. I don't believe they used the boat at all and I don't think RCMP thinks that either, per what they said when they were talking about the creek bed as a route to where they were found.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Also, regarding the RAV4, I've seen pictures of it on fire in a field, right side up. And I've seen photos of it upside down. How did it go from right side up to upside down?

 

[Schmoosh]

Does that mean that they never used the boat?

Correct.

 

[10ofRods]

Wondering what was different about this found item from the other ones?
RCMP find item that may be connected to McLeod and Schmegelsky investigation
August 10, 2019 5:44PM EDT
"GILLAM, Man. - RCMP say they've found an item that could be relevant to their investigation into two murder suspects whose bodies they believe they located earlier in the week."
"He did not say what the item found Friday was, but says it “may be of interest to the investigation” and “will have to be examined to determine its relevance.”

Gun? Military knife? That would warrant a tantalizing clue. I need a weapon here, to connect the dots (and I bet RCMP wants the same).

 

[Jen-Knee]

The following is a prime example how teens can know something is wrong or not right and say or do nothing about the situation.

‘They knew he was dying’: Father of Langley teen overdose victim wants bystanders charged

Yeah, that whole situation is just messed up. I believe that the teens who were there filming should be charged with something. But I think the guilt of doing nothing will haunt them.

Adults can be just as bad, though. Schools in BC have a zero tolerance policy and rarely, from what I have seen, do anything. Usually things escalate. It's also the same where if a child is being (sexually) abused by a parent. It's not uncommon for the other parent to ignore it and do nothing.

People of all ages can be guilty of staying silent when they should be speaking out and reporting things.

 

[Schmoosh]

Which creek bed? Do you mean the shoreline of the Nelson River? It looks like there are quite a few places where are other rivers flowing into the Nelson, you'd need to wade through water.
I'm looking at the map of where the car was found and the boat, I wonder if they were stopping at the Sundance Camp? And then walked through there and onto the boat? The map is in this news article:
B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead

The map doesn't correctly show where the boat was found. Go further downstream to where there's a 90 degree bend on the north shore and turn the corner a bit. That's where the boat was found. Go back UPstream 8 km (where they show the yellow dot where the boat was found) and that's where the bodies were found.

 

[FactFinder3000]

<modsnip - personalizing> it is highly unlikely that an illegal gun from an eBay seller in the US will get through. You’d have to be pretty stupid to even try it. There is also zero reason to believe that Schmegelsky Sr. would try to import a gun illegally. Frankly, he’s rather more likely to have purchased it in Port Alberni.

And why would you try import one when they are easily obtainable? You can buy them at Canadian Tire or a specialty store.

For example, this place has a branch in Victoria: Camouflage Military Surplus | Canadian Army Apparel & Tactical Gear

 

[otto]

In one of the RCMP videos I saw last night, they said they were trying to retrace their steps along a creek bed to the location. If you go from where the RAV4 was found and follow the creek bed, it looks like they could get at least 75% to where they were found.

I marked Sundance Creek on this map. The creek has a lot more bends than I marked, but you can see where it meets the Nelson River.

 

[otto]

Also, regarding the RAV4, I've seen pictures of it on fire in a field, right side up. And I've seen photos of it upside down. How did it go from right side up to upside down?

It must have flipped when it was pulled onto the road.

Here's a photo where you can see that it is under the power lines, which are on the North side of the road.

 

[Gina20]

Background info. only.

For all the talk of Port Alberni's hard-luck economy, there are talks ongoing with the cruise ship industry to develop a cruise ship hub. Imagine the potential in that. Local ship pilots, who board to guide the ships down the channel, tugs, etc.

Port Alberni Transhipment Hub, PATH, is another plan to cash in on the Asian container ship market, making use of barges to bring exports to the deepwater seaport, ready for lading at PA. Ports further south are at capacity, they argue. I don't know if these plans will come to fruition.

One drawback with any fjord is the threat of tsunamis from undersea subduction earthquakes, like the 1964 Alaska earthquake. Channeling a tsunami increases its height and speed.

 

[SnooperDuper]

You can't buy guns on eBay anyway:

Can any firearm-related items be sold on eBay?
Actual firearms can’t be listed, but certain firearm parts and accessories are permitted on eBay per the guidelines listed below, including restrictions on international shipping. All listings and products permitted under this section must clearly identify the part or accessory being sold, as well as the type of firearm it fits.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/... policy&intent=firearms&context=DEFAULT_BUYER

 

[Optics]

Yeah, that whole situation is just messed up. I believe that the teens who were there filming should be charged with something. But I think the guilt of doing nothing will haunt them.

Adults can be just as bad, though. Schools in BC have a zero tolerance policy and rarely, from what I have seen, do anything. Usually things escalate. It's also the same where if a child is being (sexually) abused by a parent. It's not uncommon for the other parent to ignore it and do nothing.

People of all ages can be guilty of staying silent when they should be speaking out and reporting things.

Yes when I saw this it reminded me greatly of Reena Virk's death in many ways

 

[Shlock Homes]

I marked Sundance Creek on this map. The creek has a lot more bends than I marked, but you can see where it meets the Nelson River.

View attachment 197901

Interesting. So how did their personal items end up further away from the RAV4 from them? Were they walking along the shoreline after following the creek? I can also see a system of trails or roads in the area where their bodies were found. They could have easily been transported there, if they didn't use those to travel to their final 'resting place'. It still doesn't explain how personal items were further downstream along the river.

Google Maps

 

[Deleted member 248860]

And why would you try import one when they are easily obtainable? You can buy them at Canadian Tire or a specialty store.

For example, this place has a branch in Victoria: Camouflage Military Surplus | Canadian Army Apparel & Tactical Gear

Great question.

A poster here (@10ofRods) has a theory that Schmegelsky Sr. purchased a high powered air gun. It was pointed out that possession of such a gun violates the Criminal Code unless purchased by someone with a gun license, and that it is highly unlikely that Schmegelsky had one.

With that not working, next step was to suggest that Schmegelsky purchased it from an eBay vendor in the United States, even though that is illegal and it is highly unlikely that the gun would ever make it across the border.

For one thing, the package would be inspected by Canada Customs or its package delivery agent (Canada collects VAT on any package worth over CAN$20 before the package will be delivered), and on top of that the declaration would have to be falsified, with nobody bothering to check an incoming firearm in a country with strong gun control laws.

On top of that, guns imported to Canada are subject to duty on top of VAT, which in my personal experience, having done it with a fine Spanish shotgun via the US, is a rigamarole all by itself.

As you say, it makes a lot more sense that Schmegelsky purchased a perfectly legal lower powered gun in Port Alberni, but that doesn’t fit the theory.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Any theories on why Bryer wanted to "talk politics" and start a militia months ago? Buy a gas mask, a knife you could gut a cow with, and camo?

Yes, we have discussed this. He was a weird guy with a lot of weird ideas. And he was looking for an identity to belong to and to seem "edgy"/"badass". A poster the other day who works in the field said young people are often drawn to gangs, terrorist organizations, and other hate groups less because of the ideology itself, and more because they feel alienated from their families and communities and want to feel accepted and important. He wasn't even ideologically consistent with what he identified with -- Nazis, Russians, Communism, the Azov Battalion -- these contradict each other. We would expect a lot more consistency in his beliefs if this was ideologically motivated. There's no evidence as the RCMP said that the murders were targeted. I could be wrong but so far the evidence points to untreated mental illness and nonspecific rage at the world. JMO.

do you still see teens out and about playing in your neighborhood?

I see teenagers around my town all the time, skateboarding and that kind of thing. After the schools let out they take over all the local pizza places and such.

Breyer is sounding more and more like someone who hangs with whoever will give him what he wants. When the goodies and, so does he. I’m starting to wonder if he even cared about Kam? JMO

I think their relationship was very toxic and emotionally unhealthy, but I also think they had a very genuine, strong bond. I do think KM provided BS with access to things he wouldn't have had otherwise--like a vehicle--but I also get the impression that KM was not put off by the thing BS did that drove away his other friends.

That right there, for someone as lonely and unmoored as BS seemed, would inspire some genuine affection, I think. I also suspect since BS was apparently so introverted and strikes me as a nervous sort that he liked KM's confidence and slightly more outgoing nature but also appreciated he wasn't too extroverted and, thus, overwhelming to him. (I say that as an introvert. I avoid bubbly extroverts like the blight! They're lovely people, but they exhaust and overwhelm me.)

So, yeah, I think BS may have used KM, but I don't think that precluded him genuinely liking him. I do suspect he used his own family shamelessly, though.

All MOO.

Edited to add: I think the fact they were friends for so long also just provided him with some stability he appreciated and may have even relied on. He had a rocky relationship with his mom and an absent one for a long time with his dad. But it seems like KM's friendship was always there. I think the fact they were described by numerous people as "inseparable" indicates that they were both very dependent on that friendship and valued it tremendously. In other words, I see it as very much a two-way street with them.

I think their bond was genuine. I don't think they would be described by people who knew them as "inseparable" or "it was weird how close they were" if it was just a using relationship. A relationship based on using doesn't generally last for well over a decade, let alone appear to be that close. And I think their bond could be evidenced by that they never turned on each other or pinned the murders on each other, which would have been in their individual best interest. They enacted whatever this was together, and they chose to die together for a reason.

 

[aphoto]

I’m finally verified and back in action, I believe my deleted posts are in the process of being reinstated. I won’t be keeping a super close eye on the thread as I have a busy week but anyone can feel free to tag me if they need confirmation of anything or want me to touch base with sources. I can’t help much with any of the BC side of the investigation but I’m pretty well sourced on the Manitoba side of things.

It must have flipped when it was pulled onto the road.

Here's a photo where you can see that it is under the power lines, which are on the North side of the road.

View attachment 197902

I can confirm it was flipped while being removed from the ditch.

 

[sprucetip]

My profile "fits" where ever teens are connected to the internet. It's really hard to observe teen behavior when most of their meaningful life is conducted online. Indoors.

But let me ask (I'd love to visit Newfoundland, I used to dream, of course, of living on PEI)...do you still see teens out and about playing in your neighborhood? I don't. I got all excited at a "teen sighting" in my hood two days ago (three boys and three girls, all about 14). There are no kids outside, anywhere, where I live (suburban Los Angeles). And in my home town (small agricultural California town), same thing except there are some kids out in the poorer neighborhoods.

Middle class neighborhoods? No kids. Empty playgrounds (teens used to congregate there; now they congregate online). They don't even go to the mall that much any more. And my students (18-25 mostly) have a steep increase in meeting people in apps or games, whereas even 8 years ago, a fair number were disdainful of that.

I am always surprised at the way online communities attract a worldwide core group or clique, sometimes rocking the assumptions of the actual host cultures in the places where these kids live.

Kam and Bryer were very active members of some online communities, that much we know (especially Kam, who was a mod). Many kids in alternative high schools are online...a lot.

Anyway, if Newfoundland still has regular teen activity that involves hanging out in a neighborhood, that's amazing.

That’s really interesting, I’m going to take note of the teens out and about in my town. Now that you mention it, I don’t see them a lot.

This discussion reminds me of a friend’s daughter who at about 9/10, developed a pretty hard core addiction to not just games, but anything online. All she wanted to do was watch YouTube or play games. I once took her and her sister to a place that was a kids paradise, it had mini golf, small farm, indoor foosball, ping pong, tons of things. Enough to keep kids occupied for hours.

She was miserable when we arrived and bounced from game to game, with a maximum attention span of about 5 minutes/game. Less than an hour into it, she declared she was bored! My jaw dropped. Her mom later said she’d get ‘foul’ when away from the internet and was going to talk to her counsellor about how to approach it. Maybe I’m old school but my parents would have simply cut off that privilege until I pulled it together lol. But maybe parenting is different now? Anyways, she still has issues now, a couple years later.

 

[Schmoosh]

I marked Sundance Creek on this map. The creek has a lot more bends than I marked, but you can see where it meets the Nelson River.

View attachment 197901

Thanks Otto. Not quite the creek bed (not riverbed) I was talking about. I'd try to mark up a map for it but I'm afraid my skills are lacking in that department!

 

[derbywinner]

Background info. only.

For all the talk of Port Alberni's hard-luck economy, there are talks ongoing with the cruise ship industry to develop a cruise ship hub. Imagine the potential in that. Local ship pilots, who board to guide the ships down the channel, tugs, etc.

Port Alberni Transhipment Hub, PATH, is another plan to cash in on the Asian container ship market, making use of barges to bring exports to the deepwater seaport, ready for lading at PA. Ports further south are at capacity, they argue. I don't know if these plans will come to fruition.

One drawback with any fjord is the threat of tsunamis from undersea subduction earthquakes, like the 1964 Alaska earthquake. Channeling a tsunami increases its height and speed.

I have to say something about Port Alberni's hard-luck economy; not sure where you are reading that. In Vancouver and the lower mainlaind as we call it, housing is at a premium. That includes Port Alberni. Google real estate there. The people that live there are comfortable, and there are many leaving our messed up housing costs in Vancouver to escape to places like Powell River.