Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[derbywinner]

Everything is circumstantial at this point. They want to show intent by building a case based on the person's history. But ultimately, if there was a court case, a lot of this wouldn't be admissible or have relevance. Even if one of them had a book on the Charles Manson murders, it doesn't mean they would turn to murder. And for thrill killers, they stopped in BC. You'd have expected a trail of murder extending into Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The m.o. for the murder of Dyck seems different from Fowler and Deese, that's why it seems like the work of different people.

I'm on the fence with Fowler and Deese. I read way back after they were killed about camping in Pink Mountain. Googled it and yes Fowler and Deese did camp there. But I know I read that Kam and Bryer also were camped there at the same time. So I'm kind of sketched because of that.

 

[Kubirai]

What teenager has fully developed ideological beliefs? He didn't even know about his Ukrainian heritage.

None of the domestic terrorists we've seen south of the border (and a few here who have murdered) had a solidly coherent belief system either.

Teens as young as 15 have been charged for downloading materials from jihadi websites.

 

[dameagatha]

Not an easy feat. And no reason why anyone would do that.

Previous threads extensively covered the extremely ferocious rapids on the Nelson River & damage to the boat.

 

[Link Haze]

I don't think anyone said they did or they inherently would if they did.

I mean, to be perfectly frank, I own a book on Manson. I would venture to say a lot of people on this forum do, seeing as it is for true crime buffs. I would sincerely hope my library would never be used against me. If it is, I'm guilty of mass murder.

That doesn't mean someone is a murderer.

Bryer and Kam had interests that a lot of people who never kill anybody do. But they--and especially Bryer--also manifested more worrying red-flag behavior. It's the combined effect of those worrying things that is being considered, not one of them in isolation.

I read a ton of true crime, but I have zero interest in killing anyone. For me it's more of an interest in forensic science.

 

[SausagePizza]

Port Alberni is a port just does not get large cargo vessel or tankers etc..

 

[otto]

Not an easy feat. And no reason why anyone would do that.

The Nelson River is a trout spawning area, and there are instructions online explaining how to remove the middle seat (for bass fishing) and maintain the structural integrity. We covered a lot of this discussion when the boat was found on Aug 2.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Re the job market in Port Alberni...

Just spoke with my brother, who is a significant player in new housing construction on Vancouver Island. With the caveat that it is a “big island”, he says that housing starts generally are not keeping up with demand, and in some places demand is at the highest levels “since the 1970s”. However, he says that Port Alberni is “a bit out of the way”. Without looking at stats, he estimates Port Alberni new housing construction as “reasonably strong”.

Lots of young families are moving out of Victoria since the crazy market from Vancouver is making it more and more unaffordable for rent and owning.

Many of these young families are moving to Langford, Sooke, Comox/Courtenay/Cumberland and probably PA. Cumberland used to be cheap (we almost moved there with our young family) but has now gotten majorly expensive as the new "it" place and even young Vancouverite families driven out of Vancouver have moved there as well. The island has gotten much, much busier... lots of new construction all over. Some places more desirable than others depending on lifestyle, schools, arts and culture, etc.

 

[KR72]

Was it a large river like the Nelson River though? All the photos I've seen of the river show a fairly wide, and non-rapids river. In fact, if you didn't know it was a river, you'd think it was a lake. It's also not clear where they would have put the boat into the water, the whole area looks like it's a sloped cliff. Somehow I think the boat was meant to be tied to them, but they can't connect the dots.

The Nelson is one of the fastest and most dangerous rivers in Manitoba of which there are plenty.

 

[Zella]

I read a ton of true crime, but I have zero interest in killing anyone. For me it's more of an interest in forensic science.

Same here! I actually did my master's degree work in literature on true crime! It's been a passion of mine since childhood. I've never killed anyone and have no desire to do so. I like literary villains, root for the bad guys in a lot of movies, and have occasionally played violent games, though it's not really something that appeals to me. None of those things on their own indicts someone as a killer.

Likewise, KM and BS playing some of the games they did is not on its own anything to indict them over. I think they're suspects for good reason, but that has nothing to do with their interests on its own.

 

[srper2]

Also, why would they carry the keys with them? Why go to all the trouble of burning everything, and yet you carry the keys? Was it so they could lock the doors before they torched it? I doubt carrying them would be an oversight. If they were on the run and using a stolen vehicle, knowing where the keys were at all times would be very important. If you lost them, you'd have to steal another car. So wouldn't forget they had them.[/QUOTE
If the keys were to the burnt truck, they could have kept them because they also had their house keys etc on them, intending to use later. Then when burning the RAV4 if by then they felt they had nothing left to live for, no longer needed them and dropped them. That could also explain why they didn;t take items that would be invaluable for survival out there at the time. If you are intending on continuing on in life, they could be valuable, if you are intending on dying, of no value?

 

[derbywinner]

makes total sense to me
maybe you havenèt been exposed to this type of person

I grew up with Clifford Olson, and david shearing, and the highway of tears; I'm not delusional. None of this makes sense. You have to live here to understand. Bad stuff happens; not like this.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

While it is the most un-port-like port on the planet, it is still a port, believe it or not. Overview | Port Alberni Port Authority - Rising Tides and New Horizons

I don’t know why people are debating this, but there’s a reason why @derbywinner is less keen than some of you about calling Port Alberni a port. Before correcting him/her, it might be worth noting that he/she is speaking as someone who has worked for a major terminal operation in Vancouver.

Vancouver is a major commercial port operation. Port Alberni is legally a port, but commercially it is insignificant. If you look at your link, it mostly runs some marinas and three berths for the export of local lumber products.

Sorry, but I’m with @derbywinner. Vancouver is a port, Port Alberni is a white elephant and a drain on taxpayers, which is why it is desperately looking for business

Not that any of this matters, except in terms of Port Alberni employment opportunities.

 

[dameagatha]

The Nelson is one of the fastest and most dangerous rivers in Manitoba of which there are plenty.

Also, the location where Kam & Bryer joined the river is relatively close below Limestone dam, which contributes to turbulence depending on flow rates.

 

[otto]

Lots of young families are moving out of Victoria since the crazy market from Vancouver is making it more and more unaffordable for rent and owning.

Many of these young families are moving to Langord, Sooke, Comox/Courtenay/Cumberland and probably PA. Cumberland used to be cheap (we almost moved there with our young family) but has now gotten majorly expensive as the new "it" place and even young Vancouverite families driven out of Vancouver have moved there as well. The island has gotten much, much busier... lots of new construction all over. Some places more desirable than others depending on lifestyle, schools, arts and culture, etc.

Campbell River fishing is rather famous.

 

[derbywinner]

I read a ton of true crime, but I have zero interest in killing anyone. For me it's more of an interest in forensic science.

I am intrigu

Port Alberni is a port just does not get large cargo vessel or tankers etc..

Okay

 

[FactFinder3000]

It must have flipped when it was pulled onto the road.

Here's a photo where you can see that it is under the power lines, which are on the North side of the road.

View attachment 197902

So are you saying that the person who says they stood in the burnt spot and showed us where it was on the map was wrong? The burnt RAV4 was north of 290?

I'm confused. What boat and who?

The picture you posted shows a boat in the background, not a building.

 

[derbywinner]

Campbell River fishing is rather famous.

Our fishing out here is amazing. I can drive 10 mins., cast a rod and we got salmon !!

 

[Kubirai]

It looks like the rim was also ripped out. That takes a lot of effort. KM and BS did that, or the boat was already missing that when they possibly took it?

That damage could have been caused by the boat flipping over and the submerged rim grinding against rocks.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Lots of young families are moving out of Victoria since the crazy market from Vancouver is making it more and more unaffordable for rent and owning.

Many of these young families are moving to Langord, Sooke, Comox/Courtenay/Cumberland and probably PA. Cumberland used to be cheap (we almost moved there with our young family) but has now gotten majorly expensive as the new "it" place and even young Vancouverite families driven out of Vancouver have moved there as well. The island has gotten much, much busier... lots of new construction all over. Some places more desirable than others depending on lifestyle, schools, arts and culture, etc.

Yes, that’s basically what my brother was saying. I didn’t specify it in my post, but his reference to demand being the highest since the 1970s was to the general Victoria area and a couple of other areas.

 

[srper2]

Yes, they do. See Dartmouth Murders, 2001. Two teen age boys, interested in Nietzsche, killed two married professors in their home.

2001 Dartmouth College murders - Wikipedia

We can't generalise a behaviour to a group/population based on the behaviours of a tiny sample. There are tens of millions of people who play all these games around the world (and hang out in their parents basements etc), but very few become criminals or murderers! One constant theme with murders/shootings is access to a gun, not access to a computer game!