Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[Zella]

JMO but I'm pretty sure this is what happened.

Also, wow, you are really going in on the sleuthing today.

Yeah I'm thinking it did, too. I wonder how long he was away from school. I've never seen an article confirm it, just that he left school for awhile.

Haha I actually did this last night while the thread was closed. I managed to behave myself for the first time since this story broke and work productively today.

 

[scrappinkat]

I see a disturbing trend of young men becoming alienated from society and acting out their anger with guns in mass shootings. Why does this keep happening over and over again? How can it be stopped?

I’ve been bothered more and more by this since the comment about ages of boys who have found their way to various Incel groups online, at ages of 13 or so. That’s horrifying to me. I don’t know if Kam or Bryer were in one and it’s not to be discussed so let’s not go there. But in the meantime how do we ignore that any boy could be currently going online and find themselves being coached to hate and blame others for how they feel. IF those kids didn’t find that kind of online encouragement would they be more prone to getting support from those around them? Perhaps support that could help teach them ways to deal with anxiety, emotional intelligence to know how better to deal with fears they have, how to interact with people - so many things that could help a youth escape from going down a road that is only filled with hatred.

Free speech is a good thing. The internet is a good thing. But sometimes IMO the internet offers a platform that doesn’t deserve to be protected by free speech.

 

[Zella]

In Canada, you begin school according the year you are born. So if Bryer and Kam were both born in the same year, but Kam finished high school a year earlier than Bryer, that means the either Bryer was held back a year, or dropped out and then returned or Kam would have had to advanced a year (skipped a grade).

That makes sense! Thank you! I've also wondered if Bryer was held back a year, but I never saw any mention of it. I also had wondered if Kam had skipped a year, but I've also never seen that confirmed anywhere and seems a bit at odds with what I can gather from him as a student.

 

[musicaljoke]

One RCMP cadaver dog. There would be others of course with other forces, and private S&R outfits.

Every SAR dog is trained to find deceased bodies, but the cadaver dog can find human remains in water, or buried under a metre of dirt, and bodies that were buried years ago.

 

[KR72]

That makes sense! Thank you! I've also wondered if Bryer was held back a year, but I never saw any mention of it. I also had wondered if Kam had skipped a year, but I've also never seen that confirmed anywhere and seems a bit at odds with what I can gather from him as a student.

Yeah, I'm going with your first impression, that Bryer dropped out and then returned to school, and was a year behind. I'm sure I read that somewhere too, can't recall where though, lol.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah I'm thinking it did, too. I wonder how long he was away from school. I've never seen an article confirm it, just that he left school for awhile.

Haha I actually did this last night while the thread was closed. I managed to behave myself for the first time since this story broke and work productively today.

I assume it must have been a few months at least to be remarked upon.

LOL I got a good night's sleep (ie. more than six hours) last night for the first time in two weeks...yeah maybe following this case isn't particularly healthy for me....

 

[Gina20]

They had already been in the woods for at least a couple of days by the time his dad was interviewed. They were in the woods by the time they were charged and named as suspects.

I had the opposite reaction. When I first saw the interview I thought "Wow, most parents would be in denial, but that guy has a really realistic assessment of the situation...I've never seen that before from the parent of a teen killer."

It could be that a suicide message was found, and AS was repeating what it said. His estimated time of death might have been their estimated time of death.

Things don't always go according to plan.

 

[LadyL]

I think he said it too and they just didn't include everything he said in the video for some reason, perhaps an oversight or mistake. The news source that did the interview was reputable so I don't see why they would make it up.



I don't think he meant to praise it either. I think he was saying that he thought Kam and Bryer's intention was to go out in a blaze of glory. As in, that is how they would see it, as most mass killers do. He even said in the 60 Minutes interview "there's no glory in what they did," which to me was indicating that he definitely didn't mean to sound like he was praising their actions.

depends on what he was referring to - the entire crime spree? or the way they died?
could be veiled disappointment at the way they ended it because they did not, as he predicted, go out in a blaze of glory
there was no shootout or standoff or dramatic takedown like he envisioned

 

[JuneBug67]

Every SAR dog is trained to find deceased bodies, but the cadaver dog can find human remains in water, or buried under a metre of dirt, and bodies that were buried years ago.

Interesting!

 

[SiciC]

I think it is equally likely that Kam went to VAST first then Bryer followed or that Bryer went to VAST first and then Kam followed. In any event, if they were in separate grades, I think it makes sense that they'd think being in the same school together but not the same grade was better than nothing.

We don't know Kam's birthday, but we know Bryer's was August 4, and so he'd now also be 19 if he were alive. I think they were probably in the same grade. They were apparently friends since elementary school and like you said, it's uncommon for young kids at school to become best friends with kids in other grades or classes than there's (imo). I think it could be possible that because Bryer dropped out he ended up behind a year, or possibly he could've failed a grade? Or re-entered school the year Kam already graduated (last year), and potentially graduated this year.. I know we can't confirm he graduated at all though.

ETA: Since we have heard nothing at all about any other jobs or anything Kam might have been doing this past year, maybe Bryer being in school the past year could explain it. If they were a fairly co-dependent, relied on eachother a lot, weren't especially social with others, Kam might've been reluctant to look for work without Bryer. Kam having a job and Bryer being in school might also affect their schedules, and they wouldn't get to hang out and have fun or camp-outs or whatever as much, and Bryer would have less responsibilites than Kam.... all of which might've also been a deterrent for Kam seeking serious or any sort of employment.
Total speculation, we don't know what he'd been doing this past year.

 

[MistyWaters]

They had already been in the woods for at least a couple of days by the time his dad was interviewed. They were in the woods by the time they were charged and named as suspects.

I had the opposite reaction. When I first saw the interview I thought "Wow, most parents would be in denial, but that guy has a really realistic assessment of the situation...I've never seen that before from the parent of a teen killer."

I think you’re right. AS’s earliest interview appears to have been on July 24th so I can only hope the two didn’t have a satellite radio while in the bush, alive for a few days and hear any of these ominous interviews by AS.

Global news has a few pieces on the 2nd July 25th interview on Twitter, AS emphatically stating the mounties are going to shoot first and ask questions later, then he moves onto being so sorry for not being able to rescue B.....assumably from being killed by police.

Twitter

<modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[Gina20]

Posted by @Cdndadeh on Thread 10, p.44 #874

I worked as a locksmith for 10 years in my younger days... I can say with reasonable assurance that there are two Toyota keys at least one house key either a kwikset or weiser brand and the smaller keys belong to small cam locks they could be locks for a camper, mailbox, filing cabinet, padlock or many other things. But I would put money that those keys are Toyota keys!

I postulated here that one of those keys might have matched the lock on a gun cabinet.

 

[Zella]

We don't know Kam's birthday, but we know Bryer's was August 4, and so he'd now also be 19 if he were alive. I think they were probably in the same grade. They were apparently friends since elementary school and like you said, it's uncommon for young kids at school to become best friends with kids in other grades or classes than there's (imo). I think it could be possible that because Bryer dropped out he ended up behind a year, or possibly he could've failed a grade? Or re-entered school the year Kam already graduated (last year), and potentially graduated this year.. I know we can't confirm he graduated at all though.

Yeah I've been very curious exactly how much older Kam was. Of course, it couldn't have been more than about 8 months since they were born the same year. But I am thinking his birthday must not have just occurred right before they left simply because it seems like something someone would've mentioned. ("He just celebrated his 19th birthday!") But there's no real telling with these two!

 

[Gina20]

Show of hands: who saw the BOG-gate interview? I did, on national TV.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think you’re right. AS’s earliest interview appears to have been on July 24th so I dearly hope the two didn’t have a satellite radio while in the bush, alive for a few days and hear any if these ominous interviews.

Doubtful. First of all I don't think they were anywhere near that prepared, second of all I think they were probably more preoccupied with bug bites, waterborne illness, evading helicopters, working up to being able to shoot themselves, etc.

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped>

 

[LadyL]

This keeps being brought up and I have no hatred towards this man but in his second interview, AS was a complete mess, walking to and fro, fidgity and red eyed and he said, 'they would go out in a blaze of glory', and that's the Bryer he knows.

Those few people who didn't watch the original video, can blame the 'demon' media all they like because they believe they misrepresented what AS said, but in this case, it happened, those were HIS words.
It was a terrible interview, reminded me of Anna Nicole Smith's last interview before she committed suicide. Terribly irresponsible of the reporters to speak to a person who's deeply distressed and showing clear signs of mentally instability, be upset about the interview taking place and aired, they've removed it for good reason but they won't remove his words.
I normally wouldn't defend the media but gee, they didn't put those words in his mouth and I'm sure someone has downloaded the video, not the one where he's sitting calmly on a grassy slope, speaking, that's NOT it. If one likes facts, there's one.

[bbm]

just fyi & o/t - her death was ruled an accidental overdose

Anna Nicole Smith - Wikipedia

 

[KR72]

I just noticed this, but the pic of young Bryer and AS appears to have been taken in a Walmart.

 

[Gina20]

Yeah I've been very curious exactly how much older Kam was. Of course, it couldn't have been more than about 8 months since they were born the same year. But I am thinking his birthday must not have just occurred right before they left simply because it seems like something someone would've mentioned. ("He just celebrated his 19th birthday!") But there's no real telling with these two!

What's the age for starting school in PA?

Where I live, there can be a 14-month gap between the youngest and oldest child in a Grade One class, due to the guidelines for optional vs. compulsory starting ages.

This is yet another reason some children have difficulties in school, IMO. Some parents choose early entry because of day care logistics and so on, whether their child is ready or not. Others will hold their children back as long as they can. The size difference and range of abilities means big gaps in both.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, I remember seeing that but multiple people have said Kam was more outgoing, though, and there are references to him being more engaged in with people and events than Bryer. He's reported to have attended LAN tournaments that Bryer apparently wasn't seen at. Friends seem to recall Kam fondly as someone fun to hang out with, and people who encountered him as acquaintances also say he was likable, indicating he wasn't super withdrawn. One of the people who knew Bryer said he was very quiet until he was in a group of his friends. Even Bryer's great-uncle admitted Kam was more outgoing than Bryer.

I wondered if "outspoken" was being used in the context of that article as a synonym for "blatantly disturbed." And though I found that article interesting, it also seemed a bit sloppy. They couldn't decide if they spelled Kam's last name as Mcleod or MacLeod, it said they worked at WM for several "months" as opposed to "weeks," and they gave Kam's dad's occupation as commerical fisherman when he actually co-owns a barge towing service.

Yes the problem with information gained from reporters seeking to speak to local people who’ll agree to talk can be the person stating their opinion would need to be familiar with both B and K equally, in order to compare the two. Possibly the person who believed B was more outspoken didn’t know K as well.

 

[JuneBug67]

I just noticed this, but the pic of young Bryer and AS appears to have been taken in a Walmart.

I noticed that the other day. I found it kind of sad and sweet all at once. Wondered about the circumstances.