Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #15

[Trooper]

I understand your anger and everything, but I think this is a bit harsh. Yes what they did(if they did it) is unforgivable and monstrous, but they were peoples children.. People loved these teens and those people are undoubtedly extremely hurt and shocked by all of this. I don't think those families think their children were worth nothing despite what they have potentially done. There had to be reasons for all of this, kids aren't born just to kill others and themselves and nothing else. Something was wrong.

edited by me for clarity and brevity.


You are mistaken if you are reading my posts as 'anger' Websleuths has always been, and will continue to be, I hope, a Victim Friendly Site. No ifs, no buts, and really , it is one of the very few places where victims are not relegated to being mere pawns in the games of perpetrators, and perpetrators raised to mythic folk hero status.

We can talk about victims here, and we can dismiss the propensity to raise up killers to the status of having to be 'understood' and, god help us, 'forgiven' and all this malarkey. It is perfectly alright to relegate killers to a substandard of human expectation.

Killers are not called outlaws because it sounds cute, it is because since mankind gathered together in a cave, rules and laws were consented to and adhered to because otherwise the whole humankind program would quickly end. People put themselves 'outside the law' and that could be because of a hard childhood, and all this stuff, but in the end, it is a chosen path.

 

[SiciC]

No one knows how long it took Lucas to die. No one knows who died first. Maybe Lucas , dying, had to watch Chynna's protracted death. No one knows.

It would be a very very long stretch and one hell of a shaky limb to climb out on and claim that the killings of Mr Fowler, Miss Deese and Proff Dyck were clean, expert, quick kills.

A hell of a stretch to claim that.

Sadly I've thought of this aswell. I don't like to think about it much but not thinking about it doesn't make it any less real..... The roadside worker said that Chynna had injuries to her head and face. He said Lucas had injuries to the side of his abdomen around his hip. This makes me think that Chynna might have been gone quickly but Lucas' death may have been more prolonged, he might have bled out and it wasn't fast, but of course no one was out there to help him. I fear Lucas may have been more aware of the severity of the situation than Chynna might've had the chance to be... Regardless, they both must have been absolutely terrified. I think they were likely sleeping.. which is scary enough, out there on an isolated highway in the middle of nowhere, literally, with no streetlights and a broken down van, so pure darkness. No source of light unless they used flashlights and such. And then for someone to pull up and they might have been thinking that someone was coming to help them, but the complete opposite occurred. It's heartbreaking and terrifying to even imagine.

 

[FactFinder3000]

It's clear to me the murder of Mr. Dyck was for the purposes of robbery.

And for the first murders shouldn't we wait until we know whether or not a sexual assault occurred? Because that would supply a clear motive. As I have said before, that's the most common reason a young couple would be killed like this.

I don't think these two set out to achieve notoriety at all. That's just not what this looks like.

 

[KR72]

It's clear to me the murder of Mr. Dyck was for the purposes of robbery.

And for the first murders shouldn't we wait until we know whether or not a sexual assault occurred? Because that would supply a clear motive. As I have said before, that's the most common reason a young couple would be killed like this.

I don't think these two set out to achieve notoriety at all. That's just not what this looks like.

Were you reading my mind? It's crossed my mind that it could have been a sexual assault that was interrupted by LF.

 

[SnooperDuper]

There have been several long-winded posts here stating that we should have nothing but pure unbridled hate for BS and KM...

...but isn't that the sort of emotion that brought us to this point? Passionate hate is never ok, even if you righteously hold it in the name of victims. That's how wars are begun and millions have died.

What BS and KM did was unequivocally wrong, but it is equally wrong to brew hate in response.

 

[Trooper]

The very fact that these two young men decided to kill themselves.. ( even though that is the general idea, it isn't improbable that one killed the other then himself ) underlines the unarguable fact that neither wished to be understood, nor had anything to offer in the long literary journey of killers, or wished to be forgiven, nor expected to be .

They left no explanation, no expressed desire to be 'understood' ( I suspect they understood each other very well, and especially, in the last days, they not only understood each other, but had a very good insight into themselves , at last ) and left no manifesto explaining the parts their parents played in their downfall and subsequent death.

They contributed nothing to the 'understanding ' of mindless murder, except , people will do it, with monotonous regularity , all over the world, and particularly, and while it's hard to take , it is what it is, young white males are up for it , in increasing numbers.

 

[MistyWaters]

How many kids in Port Alberni had ' a lot of anger and grief'? how many , say, in British Columbia? thousands? . how many in Canada, all up ? .

Come on, now. It cant' be claimed in all directions, really. What was so special about their 'anger and grief'? what made theirs so different, so worthy of 'understanding' more than any other kid wandering around in , say, Thunder Bay, or, Kingston, or downtown Montreal? .

Nothing, is what differentiates it. Nothing at all. It is the same.


It is the chosen path to releive that 'anger and grief' that sets these two apart, and either that is the main thrust of understanding or it means utterly nothing. Mere anger and grief is a human condition, and not one person on this earth avoids that .

That is very true, it’s their chosen path that sets them apart from the vast majority of others in similar situations who successfully overcome early challenges.

What’s disturbing to me about this case is their choice of three innocent victims who posed no harm, hurt or fear to them, strangers, no provocation and who were totally undeserving of being on the receiving end of any deep seated ‘anger and grief’. Not a clerk who refused to hand over what they couldn’t pay for, not a police officer who randomly stopped them for speeding, nor a relative or friend who one of them had a particular long-standing hate-on for who might’ve had the misfortune of unintentionally igniting their fuse.

Instead the victims chosen were three harmless strangers, an attractive couple on an adventure and a grandfatherly professor who looked like Santa Clause who were alone when the vicious attacks occurred. IMO that represents a thrill kill.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It's clear to me the murder of Mr. Dyck was for the purposes of robbery.

And for the first murders shouldn't we wait until we know whether or not a sexual assault occurred? Because that would supply a clear motive. As I have said before, that's the most common reason a young couple would be killed like this.

I don't think these two set out to achieve notoriety at all. That's just not what this looks like.

I feel like if there was a sexual assault, it would have come out by now. I could be wrong, but usually the media finds that kind of stuff out, and that's the kind of detail that would get more attention on the case which would have accelerated the manhunt.

If Chynna was shot in the face and Lucas was shot in the side of the abdomen, to me that indicates something that was unplanned and sloppy, and didn't go as expected. Like more of a robbery situation. Because the abdomen around the hip is not really the first location someone would think to shoot in a murder, like it's a potentially survivable wound. I feel like with a planned murder, maybe they would both be shot in the same location, such as the head? But I really don't know.

 

[NJSleuth91]

There have been several long-winded posts here stating that we should have nothing but pure unbridled hate for BS and KM...

...but isn't that the sort of emotion that brought us to this point? Passionate hate is never ok, even if you righteously hold it in the name of victims. That's how wars are begun and millions have died.

What BS and KM did was unequivocally wrong, but it is equally wrong to brew hate in response.

Bottom line: if someone found a teenager who was about to turn to violence, and told them the type of stuff that was written here, basically amounting to "you're nothing, get over it, you were always destined to be evil, what right do you have to be angry at anything when people are starving in Africa" do you think that would prevent them from turning to violence, or not? We may not always viscerally understand someone's perspective but we have to meet them at their perspective for them to understand us.

 

[Trooper]

I feel like if there was a sexual assault, it would have come out by now. I could be wrong, but usually the media finds that kind of stuff out, and that's the kind of detail that would get more attention on the case which would have accelerated the manhunt.

If Chynna was shot in the face and Lucas was shot in the side of the abdomen, to me that indicates something that was unplanned and sloppy, and didn't go as expected. Like more of a robbery situation. Because the abdomen around the hip is not really the first location someone would think to shoot in a murder, like it's a potentially survivable wound. I feel like with a planned murder, maybe they would both be shot in the same location, such as the head? But I really don't know.

Why would it come out, before the coroners report has been finalized? I merely enquire. …

 

[FactFinder3000]

I feel like if there was a sexual assault, it would have come out by now. ....

I don't. In fact, I worry that even if it was, they might never release that information.

 

[KR72]

I don't. In fact, I worry that even if it was, they might never release that information.

If there was a sexual assault this whole case could be explained. I hate to say it this way, but it would make sense.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Why would it come out, before the coroners report has been finalized? I merely enquire. …

Because it's an important component of the story? It would be kind of irresponsible not to report on it. "Murderous rapists (or necrophiliacs, whatever) on the loose" is something the public should be aware of. It would be very bizarre not to report a detail that important because it could change, for example, the potential type of victims that should keep an eye out.

I don't. In fact, I worry that even if it was, they might never release that information.

Why wouldn't they? They're planning to release the final report.

Another indication that no sexual assault occurred, I think, is that the RCMP seemed confused by the motive initially, and even said in their press conference that they may not be able to determine it. I don't think they would be confused about the motive if they knew the motive was sexual assault the entire time.

 

[sandbar]

I get that Bryer had a rough upbringing and that we don't know too much about Kam so far but I think there's more going on here than simply an unfortunate childhood. A lot of people suffer from similar situations or worse and don't kill. Some people come from totally functional backgrounds and commit the most heinous crimes. People who do evil things come from all walks of life.

MOO, but I think these two were the perfect storm together. Bryer obviously had severe anger issues, maybe he was mentally ill on top of those issues, (mental illness is not a pass to commit murder of course, and most mentally ill people don't kill, they're often victims). Bryer and Kam obviously fed off each other. Maybe one of them was a sociopath? Maybe both?

Here's an interesting article from The Atlantic.

When Your Child Is a Psychopath

Fantastic article, thank you.

 

[SiciC]

Were you reading my mind? It's crossed my mind that it could have been a sexual assault that was interrupted by LF.

I don't see how one would've had that opportunity without Lucas intervening before it even happened, so I don't think it could've been "interrupted" by him. He might have been an obstacle prior if that did happen, and that might've resulted in a conflict and maybe to him being shot. I think a potential robbery or just spotting an old van to shoot up and then realizing people were in it is what happened, it's possible someone then saw Chynna and attempted something, but I don't think the van was targeted specifically because someone knew Chynna was in there.

We don't know anything about that though but my, if that occurred it would make the whole thing even more heinous than it already is.

 

[Trooper]

Because it's an important component of the story? It would be kind of irresponsible not to report on it. "Murderous rapists (or necrophiliacs, whatever) on the loose" is something the public should be aware of. It would be very bizarre not to report a detail that important because it could change, for example, the potential type of victims that should keep an eye out.



Why wouldn't they? They're planning to release the final report.

Another indication that no sexual assault occurred, I think, is that the RCMP seemed confused by the motive initially, and even said in their press conference that they may not be able to determine it. I don't think they would be confused about the motive if they knew the motive was sexual assault the entire time.

Why would the any reporters conclusions be of any value without the Coroners report, which, by it's very nature is the definitive report?

Who would want a reporters idea instead of the Coroners ? Are reporters commonly qualified in Forensic Medicine where you are residing currently? . I don't get your claim, here.

No one is saying it wont EVER be reported, again you are misrepresenting what people say to shore up some point on a hill you are digging in on. What is said is, surely the Coroners report is the one to wait for, and not a mere unqualified reporter..

 

[NJSleuth91]

But I am not saying that BEFORE they turned to violence. I am saying that AFTER they most certainly chose to turn to unspeakable violence on people who had absolutely nothing to do with their perceived 'anger and grief' and 'misundertsoodness'..

I feel that you are merely stalking me in your posts, rather as perhaps Kam and Bry did to Chynna and Lucas, merely to make your point over and over again, brooking no other point of view, drumming up acceptance of the hideous murder of three people, merely to point out the discrepancies in some poor woman's parenting, and a mish mash of cod psychology that has no bearing on this event.

If you are finding my posts intolerable, you should be putting me on ignore, not trying to mislead and deliberately misreport what I say and do not say.

Again,... this is a victim Friendly Site, It always has been. I am Victim Friendly. I have no obligation to bow at the altar of Kam and Bry, looking for blame for their chosen path in life anywhere but at themselves. Which, you have to admit they DID EXACTLY THE SAME THING, in the end!! they saw the end game much clearer that you apparently can. They knew they were worthless!.

Nobody is "stalking" you. Trust me, you're not that important. I'm responding to posts that are factually inaccurate with opinions backed up by research on the topic.

Why would the any reporters conclusions be of any value without the Coroners report, which, by it's very nature is the definitive report?

Who would want a reporters idea instead of the Coroners ? Are reporters commonly qualified in Forensic Medicine where you are residing currently? . I don't get your claim, here.

No one is saying it wont EVER be reported, again you are misrepresenting what people say to shore up some point on a hill you are digging in on. What is said is, surely the Coroners report is the one to wait for, and not a mere unqualified reporter..

Ok, whatever. As a woman, I think it would have been extremely irresponsible and dangerous for the RCMP to not report it as a sexual assault to the public when they were on the loose. There would be no reason for hiding that. Therefore I would be very surprised if it comes out that it was.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I feel that you are merely stalking me in your posts, rather as perhaps Kam and Bry did to Chynna and Lucas, merely to make your point over and over again, brooking no other point of view, drumming up acceptance of the hideous murder of three people, merely to point out the discrepancies in some poor woman's parenting, and a mish mash of cod psychology that has no bearing on this event.

If you are finding my posts intolerable, you should be putting me on ignore, not trying to mislead and deliberately misreport what I say and do not say.

You are attacking the other poster personally and this is not allowed on the site.

We are here to discuss the case and not rip up the other person.

 

[copkid]

If there was a sexual assault this whole case could be explained. I hate to say it this way, but it would make sense.

The crime scene photos were posted here in one of the earlier threads (not for the squemish, truly heartbreaking) and Chynna appears to be fully clothed from head to toe. She appears to be wearing black leggings. Chynna was also reported to be wearing one shoe.
Lucas also looks dressed.
The scence does not show any indication of a sexual assault.
JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

You are attacking the other poster personally and this is not allowed on the site.

We are here to discuss the case and not rip up the other person.

Yeah holy ****. I just realized that guy said "you are stalking me as Kam and Bryer did to Chynna and Lucas." Wowwwwww. I got bad vibes from that poster the entire time, but I can't believe he went THERE.