Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Optics]

The act of burning the vehicles was beyond attempting to burn evidence IMO, it intentionally was cause a forest fire to distract, create havoc, destroy the wilderness and put people in neighbouring communities at risk.

Exactly!

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yes, everywhere outdoor fire safety is continually reinforced, from the dangers of tossing cigarettes out car windows to ensuring campfires are thoroughly doused. These two would have to total imbeciles to not know torching vehicles in forested areas has the huge potential of fuelling a forest fire, spreading into the surrounding grass, bush and trees.

I mean...the evidence indicates they were.

The act of burning the vehicles was beyond attempting to destroy evidence IMO, it was intentionally to cause a forest fire in order to distract, create havoc, destroy the wilderness and put people in neighbouring communities at risk.

It's possible, but you would think they would have set the surrounding brush on fire too if that was the plan. I doubt they were even thinking of that, I think they were just focused on whatever hare-brained semblance of a plan they had for getting away.

 

[Moriarty]

I'd love to know what those two were looking for in that hardware store. They went down an aisle marked "seasonal" but I can't make out what sort of items were actually on the aisle. K did seem to be looking for something, and they seemed to know where they were going (maybe they'd asked as they entered?).

Not sure you got your answer, or if this was linked before...also not sure the Meadow Lake Northern Pride counts as MSM. That was the source of the hair cut story as well.

But, in the story about the Co-op visit, Northern Pride quotes the customer who saw the pair in the Co-op and called RCMP:

"Meanwhile, the eyewitness said the two men were walking around the store looking at camping and RV supplies among other items.

'They were pretty quiet – talking pretty quietly amongst themselves the whole time,' the informant continued. 'When they went to leave the store, the cashier asked if they needed any help. She also suggested they go to another local business to find whatever it was they were looking for. That’s when they left, but one of them in particular struck me as different because he was wearing a camouflage outfit that looked fairly new. It was just odd to see someone wearing a full camouflage outfit in the middle of summer.'

Earlier in the piece, the source stated:

" 'I was at a local business Sunday afternoon and I saw two very tall, young gentlemen who didn’t look familiar to the Meadow Lake area,' explained a local resident who reported the teens’ presence in Meadow Lake to the RCMP. 'We’re a small town and we all tend to recognize people even if we’ve only seen them on the street one time. I knew these guys weren’t from around here. These two gentlemen were very tall, and that’s what stuck out to me the most.'

Murder suspects were in M.L. - Northern Pride

 

[Moriarty]

Yes, the date for the haircut doesn't fit a very plausible timeline, but if a hairdresser had the suspect's face in her hands to trim his beard, she surely would be able to remember this for several days. Could it be that just the date was wrong?

I would think that most of the haircuts would be for repeat clients. A couple of young, tall male tourists would be noticed.

Especially in small town. That article states that the two were also seen at around the same time at a local restaurant, but it's mentioned in an almost off-hand and unsupported way.

 

[Zella]

'They were pretty quiet – talking pretty quietly amongst themselves the whole time,' the informant continued. 'When they went to leave the store, the cashier asked if they needed any help. She also suggested they go to another local business to find whatever it was they were looking for. That’s when they left, but one of them in particular struck me as different because he was wearing a camouflage outfit that looked fairly new. It was just odd to see someone wearing a full camouflage outfit in the middle of summer.'

SBM

I haven't seen this article--adding to my archive. Thank you!

I'm now 100% sure the word Kam is saying when he leaves is "Thanks" to the cashier.

 

[MistyWaters]

I mean...the evidence indicates they were.



It's possible, but you would think they would have set the surrounding brush on fire too if that was the plan. I doubt they were even thinking of that, I think they were just focused on whatever hare-brained semblance of a plan they had for getting away.

We don’t know what they were thinking. But it’s well known even smouldering cigarettes cause forest fires. It’s not as simple as setting the surrounding brush on fire and successfully outrunning it because the fire can spread faster, trapping the fire starter.

But clearly fire was significant to them for some reason and no way were they immune to the risk of forest fires, growing up at Port Alberni.

ETA
Last year there was a large out of control forest fire on Vancouver Island.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/nanaimo-wildfire-1.4781692
“The fire risk is rated as extreme on much of Vancouver Island.”

 

[NJSleuth91]

'They were pretty quiet – talking pretty quietly amongst themselves the whole time,' the informant continued. 'When they went to leave the store, the cashier asked if they needed any help. She also suggested they go to another local business to find whatever it was they were looking for. That’s when they left, but one of them in particular struck me as different because he was wearing a camouflage outfit that looked fairly new. It was just odd to see someone wearing a full camouflage outfit in the middle of summer.'

So they were definitely looking for supplies then. Since they were in the seasonal aisle, my suspicion is they actually were looking for mosquito netting, but who knows. I wonder if anyone overheard any part of what they said.

" 'I was at a local business Sunday afternoon and I saw two very tall, young gentlemen who didn’t look familiar to the Meadow Lake area,' explained a local resident who reported the teens’ presence in Meadow Lake to the RCMP. 'We’re a small town and we all tend to recognize people even if we’ve only seen them on the street one time. I knew these guys weren’t from around here. These two gentlemen were very tall, and that’s what stuck out to me the most.'

BTW @Zella, I thought of something with the height thing and whether Bryer was actually 6'4" or if he was taller, going by the store footage. If he was wearing military boots that could add a couple of inches to his height, I think, so that could explain it.

 

[Zella]

I think the motivation for starting the first fire was a combination of "It'll be cool!" and "Maybe they'll think we're dead in the fire?"

I think the motivation for the second fire was "Why not? We already know how."

 

[NJSleuth91]

We don’t know what they were thinking. But it’s well known even smouldering cigarettes cause forest fires. It’s not as simple as setting the surrounding brush on fire and successfully outrunning it because the fire can spread faster, trapping the fire starter.

Well, they can, under the right conditions. However in this case neither of the vehicle fires started a forest fire. So clearly whatever they did was not sufficient to start one. If they really wanted to start one, they probably would have taken additional steps to make sure it actually got started.

 

[Zella]

BTW @Zella, I thought of something with the height thing and whether Bryer was actually 6'4" or if he was taller, going by the store footage. If he was wearing military boots that could add a couple of inches to his height, I think, so that could explain it.

SBM

True. I can't get a good look at their footwear. Looks like they're both wearing boots of some sort? In any event, most of my boots have about a 1" heel on them, so it could account for some of the size difference, which is a good 4 inches, but not all of it but would be negated if Kam was in similar footwear. My guess is Kam was 6'4" and Bryer was at least 6'6" if not 6'7".

 

[sprucetip]

The drive from Port Alberni to Liard Hot Springs is 25 hours straight through. They started off on July 12 with presumably one driver who would have to stop, eat, fuel the truck and sleep among other things. By the night of July 14/15 two people were dead. Given what we know about the victims' character: kind, engaging, nonconfrontational, it's hard to imagine how they in any way provoked the attack. This points to the perps having an intention to kill vulnerable strangers that did not threaten them. It's amazing how different the 3 victims were. But even more amazing how alike they were. It would be hard to find more utterly blameless victims given what we know of their lives and histories (except maybe for child victims). Once the perps knew they could be associated with the first murders, their solution was to find another vulnerable (as in kindhearted) person to kill. It's the third murder that really nails their intentions in that it was totally gratuitous. I'm not saying they are masterminds but I do say they intended to hunt for victims to murder.

A lot of people question the driving times and it's definitely doable, just makes for some long days of driving for one driver. But more interesting to me is WHY they would push it so hard at the start of a trip? I would think two teens, looking for some summer work in a new place - with no nefarious plans - would take a more leisurely pace. They'd take longer stops, maybe sightsee a bit. Or did something happen along the way that totally altered their plans? An interaction with L&C somewhere along the highway earlier on?

Then where did they go for the 2+ days after the murders? Did they go up to Watson Lake and over to Dease Lake? Or did they double way back to PG and up to DL? Did they hit a campground and just chill out not knowing what to do until they realized their vehicle might be recognized? And then decided to look for a new vehicle?

I'm a believer that they just went on a random killing spree but that doesn't explain the driving distances they possibly put in at the start of their trip.

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

True. I can't get a good look at their footwear. Looks like they're both wearing boots of some sort? In any event, most of my boots have about a 1" heel on them, so it could account for some of the size difference, which is a good 4 inches, but not all of it but would be negated if Kam was in similar footwear. My guess is Kam was 6'4" and Bryer was at least 6'6" if not 6'7".

Bryer is definitely wearing boots. I can't see what Kam is wearing. But if standard door frame height is 6'8" I don't think Bryer was as tall as 6'7" because he would not fit under the door frame with boots on.

I haven't seen this article--adding to my archive.

SBM...I wish I had been keeping an archive. I keep being like "I know I read that somewhere, but where?" and having to go on a whole scavenger hunt to find things.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I thought the same, and then realized they may have been eating outside the RAV4 while they torched it, and then dropped what they didn't eat and left. Otherwise, you are right, the food wouldn't have survived the fire. MAYBE the pork chop bones, would. But I'm guessing they bought the food somewhere along the way and were just getting around to eating it when they torched the RAV4.

I also read (weeks ago) that someone determined they took a turn too fast and skidded off into the ditch with the RAV4. So maybe they couldnt get it out or it wouldn't start. JMO, as always.

Could you find this report of them sliding off the road? Was that documented? That's interesting. I mean that many hours driving, then you hit those semi-loose gravel roads from what I've seen in videos and photos and according to the most updated map, they ditched the RAV right in Sundance. I can't find any zoomed out photos of the burned out RAV scene really, like with the road in frame. It would make more sense why they abandoned the RAV when it really was quite possibly their only remaining means of shelter. I wondered too if they had intended on parking somewhere discrete in Sundance, the Limestone Dam or the Keewatinoow Power Station and living out of the RAV for as long as they could.

I can't play the video for this link because it says it's region locked perhaps someone else can:
Suspects in murder of couple in Canada leave burnt out car near isolated town

Here's a photo I happened upon from the video I can't play which I found interesting. It's a rear brake drum from the RAV I believe and then are those orange slice rings placed over a pop can?
https://cdn1.tvnz.co.nz/content/dam...t-car.hashed.9738b4a0.desktop.story.share.jpg

Here's the video that shows the location of the RAV at approximately 2:10. Also, what is that circular road almost directly north of where Kam and Bryer's bodies were found? I was thinking antenna array perhaps?

 

[NJSleuth91]

A lot of people question the driving times and it's definitely doable, just makes for some long days of driving for one driver. But more interesting to me is WHY they would push it so hard at the start of a trip? I would think two teens, looking for some summer work in a new place - with no nefarious plans - would take a more leisurely pace. They'd take longer stops, maybe sightsee a bit. Or did something happen along the way that totally altered their plans? An interaction with L&C somewhere along the highway earlier on?

Then where did they go for the 2+ days after the murders? Did they go up to Watson Lake and over to Dease Lake? Or did they double way back to PG and up to DL? Did they hit a campground and just chill out not knowing what to do until they realized their vehicle might be recognized? And then decided to look for a new vehicle?

I'm a believer that they just went on a random killing spree but that doesn't explain the driving distances they possibly put in at the start of their trip.

Well, I know one thing that would definitely make people stay awake, focus, and have tons of energy for long periods of time, and could also cause rage and impulsiveness issues...but I got yelled at last time I mentioned it....

 

[Zella]

Bryer is definitely wearing boots. I can't see what Kam is wearing. But if standard door frame height is 6'8" I don't think Bryer was as tall as 6'7" because he would not fit under the door frame with boots on.



SBM...I wish I had been keeping an archive. I keep being like "I know I read that somewhere, but where?" and having to go on a whole scavenger hunt to find things.

Good point! Maybe he's a tall 6'6" and in somewhat thicker boots?

Wish I didn't start mine after a week of following the case. I missed some good stuff I can't find. My archive needs some sorting. Got so much stuff in it that it is getting a bit unwieldy. Gonna try to do a better job of indexing it properly sometime this week when I get a chance.

 

[MistyWaters]

Especially in small town. That article states that the two were also seen at around the same time at a local restaurant, but it's mentioned in an almost off-hand and unsupported way.

I wonder how the reporter thinks the two could continue to travel east from Gillam? It was upon the confirmation of sighting at the Coop in Meadow Lake when the RCMP informed the public they were believed to be travelling east, the same time they were first named as suspects.

“As of press time, the latest reports indicate the suspects were seen Tuesday in the Gillam area, about 270 kilometres south of Churchill, MB. Police believe they are likely continuing to travel east, although their possible destination remains unknown.”
Murder suspects were in M.L. - Northern Pride

 

[Moriarty]

Well, I know one thing that would definitely make people stay awake, focus, and have tons of energy for long periods of time, and could also cause rage and impulsiveness issues...but I got yelled at last time I mentioned it....

Ahhhh....Nazism.

EDIT: Sorry...meant to add a there, @NJSleuth91

 

[MistyWaters]

Good point! Maybe he's a tall 6'6" and in somewhat thicker boots?

Wish I didn't start mine after a week of following the case. I missed some good stuff I can't find. My archive needs some sorting. Got so much stuff in it that it is getting a bit unwieldy. Gonna try to do a better job of indexing it properly sometime this week when I get a chance.

You might find BC RCMP press releases helpful because this was the source of early news reporting, prior to the Manitoba press conferences.
RCMP in British Columbia - Newsroom

 

[sprucetip]

BC map of forest fires -
Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

Just a thought. I wonder how BC Wildfire Services spot forest fires? Sometimes fires are started by lightening in areas that are totally uninhabited.

I bet they utilize satellite imagery.

“Satellites send digital image data in several spectral bands to receiving stations on earth. These systems use multi-spectral scanners to collect data...”
Satellite Imagery - Province of British Columbia

Wouldn’t that be something, if further review of satellite imagery determined two people walking from the burning truck and camper and then driving away in LDs RAV4?

They would have spotters in lookout towers, fire behaviour specialists and meteorologists who use data from a variety of sources to predict fires and where lightning might strike.

The satellites would detect hot spots (MODIS) but can't zero in on people.

 

[Zella]

You might find BC RCMP press releases helpful because this was the source of early news reporting, prior to the Manitoba press conferences.
RCMP in British Columbia - Newsroom

Oh thank you--that's awesome! Adding to the archive!