Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[acutename]

Maybe he felt bad since it sounds like Alan and Bryer discussed it (maybe even with Kam included) and it was sorta decided they would work for a few months and then do the whole “leave town and find work”. For some reason they decided to leave early (maybe Kam was anxious to get going?) and Bryer agreed to it. Not wanting to disappoint his father he was reluctant to tell him and waited until the last moment.

FWIW, probably nobody heading to Whitehorse in a "few months" because that would be November. Locals have told us that they should have gone in spring to get a summer job... so they probably should have waited until 2020 if they were actually looking for work. It did sound as if AS expected BS to keep his Walmart job longer and to save $.

 

[NJSleuth91]

That stuck out to me, too. I talk to my dad on the phone every day and certainly would not take the time to do so if we didn't get along so well.

I wonder if they talked on the phone or exchanged messages. In any event, to me, that does suggest they had a fairly good relationship, all things considered. I still think it was probably a bit tentative and even superficial due to the long years of absence, but it suggests to me that they got along reasonably well. MOO

I think that they genuinely were close if they talked every day. It's also possible that Bryer sort of kept an eye on his dad due to his mental health and homelessness struggles, so he stayed in frequent contact since he knew nobody else was doing it. Because I feel like for someone of that age, it's actually out of the ordinary to talk to their parents every day if they don't live together. Like when I was away at college I talked to my dad (who was historically absent) maybe once a week, and my mom maybe every couple of days (or am I just weird?)

However, that doesn't preclude the possibility that Bryer still had residual resentments over the past, and I think he probably did.

 

[Schmoosh]

Within 24 - 48 hours of their departure, they told people:
A. they were going to Whitehorse and
B. they were going to Alberta

Obviously they were obfuscating what their plans were to their parents/relatives. Only the RCMP knows why.

 

[FactFinder3000]

DBM

You were actually correct, though. Bryer never texted his dad that he was going to Alberta to look for work. He only texted that he was going to Alberta.

"Me and Kim are going to Alberta today."

 

[Zella]

I think that they genuinely were close if they talked every day. It's also possible that Bryer sort of kept an eye on his dad due to his mental health and homelessness struggles, so he stayed in frequent contact since he knew nobody else was doing it. Because I feel like for someone of that age, it's actually out of the ordinary to talk to their parents every day if they don't live together. Like when I was away at college I talked to my dad (who was historically absent) maybe once a week, and my mom maybe every couple of days (or am I just weird?)

However, that doesn't preclude the possibility that Bryer still had residual resentments over the past, and I think he probably did.

It's possible Bryer was checking on him. I've long thought Bryer was his dad's only form of a support network.

As for what is normal frequency for talking to parents, I wouldn't know. As noted above, I've talked to my dad every day since leaving home. Haven't talked to my mom in 20 years. I'd think a weekly phone call or a couple of phone calls a week might be more "normal," but that's a guess.

In any event, I agree that he could have had a decent relationship with his dad--even been concerned enough to check on him regularly--but still had some residual resentment about how things played out during his childhood.

All MOO.

 

[srper2]

Unfortunately I can’t see your linked article and can’t seem to find any of the original ones that were published when this news first came out. Can you post some of the details again?

From what I remember, the call came sometime before KM and BS were seen at Split Lake and was asking for a ride out to Byrd but the cabbie stated his vehicle couldn’t go out that way because of the bad roads (which seems strange considering all those RCMP trailers with boats and equipment made it out there, but who knows). The cabbie deleted his call record on his phone so he couldn’t find the original number but thought it was a voice he didn’t recognize. You would think he would remember if the area code of the incoming call was a B.C. number but it wasn't mentioned in the article I saw.

The Rav was found burning that same night, July 22 at around 7pm.
You’re right though, I don’t remember anymore mention of this taxi or the call.

Hi, sorry the link wasn't showing, I cannot find a link that isn't paywalled, here is one, but still paywalled

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Jan424]

I don’t think AS could’ve seen through anything given his son had apparently told him he wasn’t satisfied with his employment at Walmart and was intending to go job hunting. AS said this iirc. I also didn’t notice any interviews where AS expressed any shock, dismay or disappointment in reading Bs text about heading to Alberta to look for work. Maybe I missed something.

ETA
Given eagerness to speak to the media, one question he’s never answered was why did he think B told him one story about going to Red Deer to find work and his grandmother another about seeking work in Whitehorse. It’s the two conflicting stories that have me leaning toward job hunting was never Bs plan and he couldn’t keep his lies straight.

I seem to recall that AS wasn’t all that surprised even when he found out KM & BS were fugitives.... Upset yes, but not necessarily surprised. JMO

 

[Pyecraft]

Rather than talking BS out of going for a job, I think some WSers were thinking, and I agree, that it's more like AS could/might have seen through BS' cover story if they'd spoke/text exchanged.

eta: clarity

Its looking more like AS was aware of BS's deteriorating mental state, given AS's apparently melodramatic reaction during that first interview. Perhaps he'd been fearing this moment when BS snapped and struck out for who knows where, struck out at who knows whom.

Getting fired from a dead-end job, if that's what happened (we don't know yet, right?) could well have been the tipping point for BS. Maybe tipped Kam too, and he shared his pal's contempt with life, and living.

The significance of BS's remains going to the mother is also final nail in AS's coffin. If not, then being unable to share BS's final video must surely have bent AS beyond straightening.

RCMP only showing part (was it 30 seconds?) of that video to the families is rather baffling, I find. What's on the rest of the video that they don't want family seeing? Something that proves definitively that they couldn't have done these terrible murders?

This selective release of evidence does them no favors; breeds a public distrust. Will get worse.

 

[MistyWaters]

At about 1:35....AS was told the jobs at Walmart “just wasn’t cutting it ”. So they were going to go to Alberta and make “some proper money”. “I believed that’s what they were going to do and I was absolutely flabbergasted when I learnt two days later, and I found this out from the paper, that they were up in the Yukon”.

 

[Schmoosh]

I seem to recall that AS wasn’t all that surprised even when he found out KM & BS were fugitives.... Upset yes, but not necessarily surprised. JMO

Hence his disappointment at failing to "rescue" Bryer based on what he knew, and felt he had failed.

I think he has provided all the clues we need; people just don't want to see them.

 

[Link Haze]

I agree. That the dad could’ve talked B out of job hunting had he had the opportunity assumes job hunting was their truthful intent.

There’s many known stressors associated to seeking employment including the disappointment of not getting called for an interview or another candidate is chosen but being accused of three murders on two different days, in two different locations isn’t one of them. The three victims were not shot or murdered accidentally, nor did the two flee in a stolen car just for a breathe of fresh air in northern Manitoba.

Well said.

 

[Schmoosh]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

AS had the sense to try to shut BS down in his Nazi beliefs in the military surplus store. Give him some credit for having the intelligence and maturity for that.

Perhaps Bryer's continued beliefs was why he didn't notify his Dad of his sudden trip plans. He knew he would've objected, and for good reason. (couldn't "rescue him")

"Alberta" was a ruse to his father.
"Yukon" was the true destination. Until along the way their plans fell apart. Only the RCMP know why.

 

[Link Haze]

Was it ever actually confirmed that they bought a gun? There have been other witnesses who claimed to have seen them, but were never confirmed and due to the timeline didn't fit. Such as the hairdresser, for example, as well as all the supposed sightings in Ontario that took place when the two were possibly already deceased. We don't know why they had those guns, or how they got them. For all we know Kam's dad insisted they take them for protection. Or they were thinking of hunting.

Not confirmed that they "bought" a gun or guns, but had them in their possession at the time of their death, so acquired them somehow. Why would Kam's Dad think they would need them for protection, when all they are doing is "looking for work"? Also highly unlikely that they stole them from their victims. And as far as "thinking of hunting", well, yes.... hunting humans.

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnip: off topic> story confirming the teens used a cellphone (singular) found with the bodies to video record a final message (last will and testament) before shooting themselves.

B.C. manhunt suspects recorded final message on phone found with bodies, family says | The Star

 

[Link Haze]

Was there a specific article or report that discussed their malicious intent, their desire for notoriety (despite not really having online profiles) - or is that simply your opinion and how you see it?

It's my theory and I think it's a damn good one.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I seem to recall that AS wasn’t all that surprised even when he found out KM & BS were fugitives.... Upset yes, but not necessarily surprised. JMO

He definitely seemed shocked and was in denial that they did it even after they were found dead, saying he'll believe it when he sees the evidence. When they were sighted he said something to the effect of, they're smart so they survived, like maybe he thought they evaded the "real killer." But given their vehicle was found burned next to a murder scene and the victim's car was stolen, and then they were sighted alive and well traveling across the country, I'm sure he at least had an idea it was possible.

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

 

[Trooper]

It's my theory and I think it's a damn good one.

I think it is the only theory that makes any logic. Character is what you do. .. not what you say, and it's a fair conclusion to judge Kam and Bryer by their acts. One can go round and round about how they might have had a harsh childhood, maybe Dad was a stoner, maybe Mum was a ditz, maybe Granma was a libertarian, maybe school didn't see their grandiosity for what it was, maybe the sensible girls of Port Alberni steered clear of both of them for damn good reasons, maybe Walmart didn't appreciate their god given talents as they saw it, and didn't promote them quick enough, a rational theory , with as much validity as any other, and their acts are/were horrific, unprovoked, and inexplicable , except by the application of your theory.

Shooting a woman, unknown to them, with no background of being hard done by her, at any point in their so far untalented life, and shooting her up close, too, on the side of a highway in front of her probably dying lover , dying horribly, alone, and without help, a long , long way from home, is something one can draw your rational conclusion from with complete agreement, without any dispute whatsoever.

 

[Schmoosh]

I think it is the only theory that makes any logic. Character is what you do. .. not what you say, and it's a fair conclusion to judge Kam and Bryer by their acts. One can go round and round about how they might have had a harsh childhood, maybe Dad was a stoner, maybe Mum was a ditz, maybe Granma was a libertarian, maybe school didn't see their grandiosity for what it was, maybe the sensible girls of Port Alberni steered clear of both of them for damn good reasons, maybe Walmart didn't appreciate their god given talents as they saw it, and didn't promote them quick enough, a rational theory , with as much validity as any other, and their acts are/were horrific, unprovoked, and inexplicable , except by the application of your theory.

Shooting a woman, unknown to them, with no background of being hard done by her, at any point in their so far untalented life, and shooting her up close, too, on the side of a highway in front of her probably dying lover , dying horribly, alone, and without help, a long , long way from home, is something one can draw your rational conclusion from with complete agreement, without any dispute whatsoever.

They were never charged with shooting a woman. The RCMP may conclude in their report that it was likely they did, based on evidence, but it hasn't happened yet. And they may not.

 

[MistyWaters]

AS had the sense to try to shut BS down in his Nazi beliefs in the military surplus store. Give him some credit for having the intelligence and maturity for that.

Perhaps Bryer's continued beliefs was why he didn't notify his Dad of his sudden trip plans. He knew he would've objected, and for good reason. (couldn't "rescue him")

"Alberta" was a ruse to his father.
"Yukon" was the true destination. Until along the way their plans fell apart. Only the RCMP know why.

I don’t see how it’s helpful to imagine AS could’ve rescued B somehow. Three homicide victims lost their lives, the two accused chose to not voluntarily surrender and instead died by suicide and sadly we don’t get to rewrite the script.

I’m certain every single family member is tormented by thoughts of “what if” this or that and have woken up many a morning wishing they had the power to turn back the clock.

 

[Jan424]

He definitely seemed shocked and was in denial that they did it even after they were found dead, saying he'll believe it when he sees the evidence. When they were sighted he said something to the effect of, they're smart so they survived, like maybe he thought they evaded the "real killer." But given their vehicle was found burned next to a murder scene and the victim's car was stolen, and then they were sighted alive and well traveling across the country, I'm sure he at least had an idea it was possible.

Yes but he also initially talked about Bryer’s pain and how he was going out in a “blaze of glory” ... to me he just didn’t sound shocked... not at first. And that’s MOO.