Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[elondriel]

I'll have to see if I can find the article, but there was one written that had some more elaboration on what happened when they were stopped. One of the officers even said Kam didn't stop because they were almost out of gas which is very plausible. The wording was a little strange though I recall. They also conflicted on what was seen when they stopped the boys. The one who spoke to them at the window said he only noticed two boxes and a suit. The one who did the walk around claimed he saw some camping gear and maps. But the officer at the window said he never saw anything like that. Again, the wording they used was strange as was their conflicting reports especially when both officers were in such close proximity to one another. I mean it's a Toyota RAV not a bus. Take a combination of being tired and then worried about running out of gas, it probably spooked them pretty good to get as far as they did only to get flagged to stop by an unfamiliar vehicle. I have to wonder if those patrols even have red and blue lights or yellow lights like a road construction pickup. I got the impression they're something akin to public safety. I may not have taken them seriously or trusted the officers either based on what they were driving and how they were dressed. Then again I've never experienced an alcohol checkpoint. Minnesota and Wisconsin ruled them unconstitutional.

That could also be the difference of the one in the window just seeing the back seat area, and then the other one being able to see the space behind the back seats. (If that makes sense) MOO

 

[Iwondertoo]

Yeah as soon as the constable story came out, I suspected Bryer was asking about alcohol not necessarily because he planned to buy some but because he was weirded out by the stop and was double-checking that what the constables said was true. MOO

I've always thought the same.

They must have thought it weird going through that type of checkpoint if they've never experienced it before.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I do wonder what they bought though.

There's nothing in their hands. What makes you think they bought something?

The store owners were interviewed and said nothing about them having shoplifted.

Do you have a link to this interview with the store owners?

There were staff members in the store who interacted with them, which reduced their opportunity to steal.

Citation? I assume this information is in the interview with the store owners?

 

[srper2]

You just proved exactly my post, thank you.

Canadians don't stop simply because there's a vehicle with its lights flashing and the officers are standing outside their vehicles.

We slow down and give them berth by pulling over to the left as safely as possible and pass by, unless they're flagging us down to pull over. If not, we can assume they're tending to/finishing other police business.

DBM, found answer elsewhere!

 

[NJSleuth91]

There's nothing in their hands. What makes you think they bought something?

Do you have a link to this interview with the store owners?

Citation? I assume this information is in the interview with the store owners?

The question of them making purchases was already discussed a few pages back.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...g-persons-lucas-fowler-chynna-deese-1.5221657
"Two employees at a hardware store in Meadow Lake, Sask., about 250 kilometres northwest of Saskatoon, told CBC News the suspects were in their store and made purchases, though it was not clear when."

The interview was actually with an employee, not the owners, but either way, they interacted with staff, who did not notice anything unusual. This has also been posted before.
https://battlefordsnow.com/2019/08/...-spotting-b-c-murder-suspects-informing-rcmp/

 

[CaseZero]

Hi,
I am new here so just learning the ropes.
I’m looking forward to the police report on this case as so much about it makes little sense to me.
Did the boys ever make it to Whitehorse? If they did, I’m assuming it was a very quick turnaround. What did they do there? What did they pick up, if anything? I’m assuming they spotted LF’s and CD’s van on the side of the road on their return trip from WH (if they made it there).
If killing was part of their agenda for this road trip, why the three murders in BC and then nothing? They had at least two opportunities in both Alberta with the guy in Cold Lake assisting with their car, and the two constables in Manitoba.
Why not just kill themselves in the BC bush after the three murders if they were on a “suicide mission” as AS seemed to think?

Who are Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky? What we know about the suspects in northern B.C. deaths

 

[NJSleuth91]

Did the boys ever make it to Whitehorse? If they did, I’m assuming it was a very quick turnaround. What did they do there? What did they pick up, if anything?

There is no evidence that we know of indicating that they did. However, according to Bryer's grandmother, they did tell their family members that they got to Whitehorse and it wasn't what they expected and they were going to head back. We don't know who exactly they said this to, or what day it was, but given the timeline for driving up there, it was most likely between the two sets of murders.

If killing was part of their agenda for this road trip, why the three murders in BC and then nothing? They had at least two opportunities in both Alberta with the guy in Cold Lake assisting with their car, and the two constables in Manitoba.

Nobody knows. With those specific people it could have been a) the Cold Lake area was a fairly populated area and there were witnesses (I think members of the guy's family) around, plus I think the guy was pretty large and strong-looking, b) the constables were armed and trained officers.

However, with the remote roads they were driving on, I find it hard to believe that they could not have found additional victims if they wanted to. Or that they couldn't have just waited for the police to show up in Gillam and tried to take as many of them out as they could, because they were going to die anyway. Most likely, given the fact that witnesses described them as scared and paranoid, and that they seemed to be just focused on driving, they were in flight mode at that point and were done with killing.

Why not just kill themselves in the BC bush after the three murders if they were on a “suicide mission” as AS seemed to think?

Nobody knows. If they planned all along to try to survive in the Manitoba bush, they had to be just about the dumbest people alive. Some people have speculated that they were trying to get notoriety which is why they went on this whole journey, but that doesn't make much sense to me given their lack of social media presence. Some people also think they were having some weird folie a deux delusion about playing out a video game in real life or something.

Looking at their route, it looks to me like they just picked a random direction and drove until they couldn't drive anymore, and then walked until they couldn't walk anymore. I think that they were suicidal (probably for years leading up to this, tbh) but also were actually trying to escape, if that makes any sense...like they were depressed/suicidal/etc. which is part of why they snapped and went on this whole thing in the first place, but also not 100% committed to suicide. JMO.

I think a lot can be explained by them just being impulsive, stupid teenagers with no life experience and major emotional regulation issues.

 

[srper2]

I am waiting for a clear RCMP report that provides some type of genuine evidence that BS and KM did murder CD and LF. Also for some explanation and clear evidence offered regarding the death of LD and murder charge. I doubt we will ever know the full reasons why this happened. I can only imagine how awful the families of these people must feel. So far all I have seen is that CD and BS were in possession of LD's car. I did read that the RCMP have been providing information to the families, so hopefully they know more than the public do at this stage. Such a cruel waste of three innocent lives.

 

[sandbar]

Exactly! I'm with you, I'm so curious if they shoplifted as well and if so - what? Ok, I'm going to go sleuth something about this, hopefully I'm not wasting my time if someone did it already lol

Ammo

 

[sandbar]

They couldn't even go through an alcohol checkpoint without acting totally suspicious and doing the exact opposite of what someone in that situation should be doing. Would they really have shoplifted and gotten away with it, in an empty-looking store with the staff talking to them?

I think they needed time to hide their guns. So they went through the check point, while one of them hid the guns. Then they stopped.

 

[Pyecraft]

I think they needed time to hide their guns. So they went through the check point, while one of them hid the guns. Then they stopped.

But ... aren't these guys, by general consensus here, hard killers? Haven't they just murdered 3 people? And they're hiding their guns before pulling over for an unarmed check-stop? Put yourself in their seats for a moment. Would you meekly give up at this point? Any cursory request by the officer to see a driving licence or vehicle documents, and your hooped.

 

[srper2]

But ... aren't these guys, by general consensus here, hard killers? Haven't they just murdered 3 people? And they're hiding their guns before pulling over for an unarmed check-stop? Put yourself in their seats for a moment. Would you meekly give up at this point? Any cursory request by the officer to see a driving licence or vehicle documents, and your hooped.

Some here by general consensus, but not everyone. Some here are waiting to see the evidence that shows they were the murderers.

 

[Pyecraft]

Of the many theoretical discrepancies with these two 'killers', the rav4 burning part of the killers-on-the-run thesis tops my list.

We first knew of this event with a snapshot of the rav4 just as it's beginning to flame up. If the two suspects lit the fire then it was pretty recent for the photo to have been taken. Exactly how far away then from the rav4 could they have fleed at that point? Certainly, not 8km. And you would think, in an entirely lay-man and hence, trackable route, at least to a professional manhunter. I would have also believed that such a talent would have been hired by LE, long before mobilizing any military. But then, thanks to AS rant to the press, and no shortage of PR International pressure, the rcmp were obliged to be cautious about the fugitives going down 'guns-a-blazing'.

Next we see the completely burnt-out rav4 overturned in some clearing. One theory on here was that it exploded, another suggested it needed to be upturned to enable it drag out to its new spot.
Could there ever have been, in LE history, a more amateurishly contaminated crime scene?

Seems more likely to me that the rav4 was torched by someone else, just before they drove out of Dodge. The time of death from autopsy will make an interesting comparison to time of fire, if that indeed can be still be or, needs to be determined by forensics.

But, logic plays even less of a part as we move forward from the burning rav4.

 

[FlyerFan28]

The Charlotte cycling community is doing a group bike ride in honor of Chynna and Lucas.
WeeklyRides.com

 

[SnooperDuper]

With those specific people it could have been a) the Cold Lake area was a fairly populated area and there were witnesses (I think members of the guy's family) around, plus I think the guy was pretty large and strong-looking, b) the constables were armed and trained officers.

Actually, no:

"Spence, who was a band constable for seven years, said even if they had known about the two men, the officers in the small town would not have been prepared to apprehend them. The lack of information provided, he said, presented a safety issue for the two constables at the checkpoint.

They were “lucky they didn’t get killed themselves,” he said, adding they were not armed and did not have formal police training."

How gaps in information relayed by law enforcement let two B.C. murder suspects slip across the country unnoticed | The Star

 

[Pyecraft]

There are some shoes to walk in yet, as we track the suspects to their deaths.

If you're an rcmp officer, armed to the gills, then you've been warned that these suspects are determined to go down 'guns blazing', and without a doubt you are primed to shoot on site.

If you're a local resident, then the impulse to protect your own people must be strong. You're used to policing yourselves, familiar with the local bush and hunting down and shooting bear, so its not much of a stretch to imagine a local hero or two would have set out to administer some self preservation.

Any of these players would have good reason to shoot the suspects, given the hysteria from the media warnings and weight of police/army activity. Suicide seems most likely given a sudden realization of the hopelessly dire situation they have somehow stumbled into - they pretty much cannot surrender (for driving a stolen vehicle) without being fired upon. Yet, some loose ends stretch credibility for this convenient theory to be foolproof.

The clothing dumped on the riverside, makes zero sense from a fugitive survival standpoint. From an evidence/plant point of view, they allowed easy tracking to the corpses, a km away. Rcmp also knew of the bodies' location long before announcing the find - its why those funky, wheelie hearsy vehicles were brought in only to find it would require boats to bring them out.

The suicide weapon/s will be a determining factor to ensure these suspects fit the crimes they've been accused of committing. Here again, we must suspend logic if we're to accept this as an only truth. Weren't they supposed to have survived some rapids on a bent piece of aluminum? And, swim back to the exact spot where they stored their guns to keep dry?

Stranger things have happened, but I just can't, despite all our interesting discussion, see these couple of tinhorns possessing enough devious smarts to be credited with any of these horrors. And, in fact, if looking for glory, then an alcohol check-stop shoot-out would have been the place.
True evil just couldn't or wouldn't have let that opportunity pass.

 

[SnooperDuper]

There are some shoes to walk in yet, as we track the suspects to their deaths.

If you're an rcmp officer, armed to the gills, then you've been warned that these suspects are determined to go down 'guns blazing', and without a doubt you are primed to shoot on site.

If you're a local resident, then the impulse to protect your own people must be strong. You're used to policing yourselves, familiar with the local bush and hunting down and shooting bear, so its not much of a stretch to imagine a local hero or two would have set out to administer some self preservation.

Any of these players would have good reason to shoot the suspects, given the hysteria from the media warnings and weight of police/army activity. Suicide seems most likely given a sudden realization of the hopelessly dire situation they have somehow stumbled into - they pretty much cannot surrender (for driving a stolen vehicle) without being fired upon. Yet, some loose ends stretch credibility for this convenient theory to be foolproof.

This is Canada, not the US. They brought in a negotiation team and told people to stay in their houses. They most likely committed suicide because they didn't want to face life in prison with 75 years to parole.

The clothing dumped on the riverside, makes zero sense from a fugitive survival standpoint. From an evidence/plant point of view, they allowed easy tracking to the corpses, a km away. Rcmp also knew of the bodies' location long before announcing the find - its why those funky, wheelie hearsy vehicles were brought in only to find it would require boats to bring them out.

There was no "clothing" by the riverside: they found unspecified "personal items". The "clothing" red herring is a fabrication of WS posters and not supported by any news article.

RCMP announced that they had found the bodies one day after finding them.

The suicide weapon/s will be a determining factor to ensure these suspects fit the crimes they've been accused of committing. Here again, we must suspend logic if we're to accept this as an only truth. Weren't they supposed to have survived some rapids on a bent piece of aluminum? And, swim back to the exact spot where they stored their guns to keep dry?

They could have easily put gear in the boat and pushed it onto the river so that it went over the rapids without them.

Stranger things have happened, but I just can't, despite all our interesting discussion, see these couple of tinhorns possessing enough devious smarts to be credited with any of these horrors. And, in fact, if looking for glory, then an alcohol check-stop shoot-out would have been the place.
True evil just couldn't or wouldn't have let that opportunity pass.

It's hard to have a shoot-out when only one side is armed. The safety officers at the checkpoint did not have guns.

 

[steelybird]

NJ, you have to understand that the checkpoint at Split Lake isn't your usual "police cars with rooftop lights flashing and officers outside of their cars motioning people to pull over like a R.I.D.E. check".

In Canada, if there is a "police" vehicle on the side of the road (with or without lights flashing), we're taught to pull to the left and pass slowly (for officer safety) and carry on (which they did). The "officers" weren't waving them over. Their vehicle may have barely been recognizable as "law enforcement". If you've seen pictures of the "checkpoint" and the vehicle, you'd understand.

When they did catch up to them, KM and BS pulled over and were apologetic and polite.

That whole incident didn't phase me in the least as anything any other Canadian wouldn't do entering that reservation the first time.

100% agree.

 

[CinNC]

They could have also used the washroom to freshen up.

Good point. And that would explain why BS is buttoning his shirt as they walk through the store. He may have removed it in the washroom to do a quick wash with some paper towels to his torso, neck, underarms, etc. KM may have done the same but didn't have buttons on his shirt.

 

[Jan424]

Well, take it for what it is. Someone probably did this already? Will post regardless.

Them in the Co-Op store Seasonal section (photos should post in order they walked in): they bypass isle 17, bypass and look down isle 18 and went up/down isle 19. Bryer was buttoning/zipping/fidgeting with jacket almost the whole time and had head down until he looked down isle 18 and then something caught his attention to his left.

Last big photo is courtesy of the link Lois Lane shared (thanks Lois!) which looks to be same Seasonal isle 19 with bikes at the end. I was trying to check the inventory in isle 19 but my eyes fail me even when enlarged. The store seems quite small actually.

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Good catch! Judging from the location of the bathrooms and the aisles they were walking thru, it seems as though they could have gone into the bathroom first ... maybe that's why Bryer keeps fiddling with his buttons, he possibly took his jacket off in the bathroom? Or do I have the layout of the store wrong? It is very hard to see what actually is on those shelves they are walking past. JMO