Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[ktm44]

Other items they sell: pellet guns and air rifles, although I think you already mentioned a back wall of guns? It must be these types of guns I guess?

Meadow Lake Co-op

The store can legally sell firearms, as long as they follow proper protocol regarding proper storage and proof of PAL. When I looked at the picture that showed the back wall from a distance, it looked to me like the firearms were behind glass, which would be proper protocol and the same way Canadian Tire handles theirs. Customers can see the firearms, the tags that show price and pertinent information and if you want to handle a firearm, you need to find an employee to open the case. Ammo would aso be locked up as well.

 

[Zella]

Doesn't that make it even worse, and sort of more horribly fascinating, if it was, though?

I've had a strong sense the whole time that this thing came really close to never happening.

SBM

Indeed! Actually, I think it also makes the whole thing seem a little less weird. It's still weird, but it would weirdly make more sense.

 

[SnooperDuper]

PART 2
More panic. More bad decisions. They can’t go home now. They try to hide their camper in the woods and end up stuck. They need a new ride and find a helpful, friendly plant prof. It’s not easy for them, but they kill him and take his Rav4, grab what they want of their own stuff.

It doesn't make sense that if they killed out of panic and regretted it, that they would then escalate their crimes and make things worse, make things so that they would never be forgiven.

They set fire to their truck, hoping to cover any sort of evidence there might be linking them to any crimes (these two are not CSI, they don’t know what traces of anything might be in or on their truck) or at least, delay any positive identification until they are far away. They take the Rav and head south and then east, keeping to northerly roads and smaller towns (Fairview, Cold Lake, Meadow Lake) and avoiding any big cities (Edmonton, Saskatoon). Through more bad, inexperienced decisions, they end up at the end of the road in northern Manitoba.

Now what? They can’t go back, those Band Constables will see them in Split Lake again and start getting suspicious. They need to go it on foot. Since burning the camper seemed to sort of work and no one knows they’re way off in Manitoba, they’ll burn the Rav too.

They grab what they can carry and follow the creek bed down to the river. They find the old aluminum boat, they pile in. The boat is shallow and the river is faster than it seems. Maybe they hit a rock or maybe they just capsize. They make it to shore with their most important items, their guns at the very least. Perhaps the rest of their stuff including the boat itself floats on downstream and washes up where it is eventually found. According to the mini-doc made by the Globe and Mail linked by @KR72, the boat is found in what looks like a bit of an eddy where flotsam could get stuck.

I don't think they were ever in the boat - they just set it on the river with some of their stuff as a decoy or red herring for the police. It just wasn't that effective a ruse because the rapids were so near and the boat came back to shore so soon/so close.

The Globe and Mail documentary posted earlier places the bodies of Kam and Bryer not far inland along the river, about a km or so upstream of where the belongings are found. Maybe they crawl there or hike there, maybe they are injured.

They hide under the trees. The crappy future they were fleeing looks much, much crappier now. In their limited, gaming experience of the world, they ask themselves, “Do we go out as cowards and murderers or as soldiers and men?...on the count of three…”

No brilliance, no masterplan. Two idiot kids who stumble along until there is no other path.

For the record, JMO.

I think they embarked on their adventure with a plan to live like outlaws and "live free or die". I do agree that they killed themselves because they calculated that "it's over", but I think even at the outset, they envisioned reaching that point sometime in their journey.

 

[NJSleuth91]

BTW to add to my previous post, what I'll add to @Moriarty's scenario is I think that something happened to put them in a really bad mind-state prior to them leaving home. Because their leaving was really abrupt and definitely seemed to be like a "we have to get out of here now, we can't take it anymore," and they didn't have a good plan of what they were doing. It definitely seemed to me, to be a rash decision caused by reaching a mental crisis point of some kind. These two seemed to be very dependent on their families prior to this, and bad at handling stress, so I think being out on their own just made their mind-state worse. I also think drug/alcohol use was likely. All JMO.

 

[Zella]

@Moriarty I think your outline also would explain why they don't really seem to mesh up with the traditional profiles of a spree killing duo. I went into this case convinced they did, but the more I read about them, I don't think either Bryer or Kam were the "leader." I think they were a team who just sort of blindly staggered around, unified but without much direction.

MOO

 

[Moriarty]

@Moriarty

I trust and value your judgment, and I think you're likely mostly or entirely correct about this scenario.



Doesn't that make it even worse, and sort of more horribly fascinating, if it was, though?

I've had a strong sense the whole time that this thing came really close to never happening.

Well, thank you for that!

I think you're right that this almost didn't happen. And how horrible and sad is that? Like so many things, the truth tends to be relatively mundane.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It's counter-intuitive that they killed by "panic" and then, instead of getting the heck out of there, went and stole wallets. You'd think they would want nothing more to do with the crime scene if they were indeed "in panic/fear/stress", and would not stop to pillage the van and leave prints and DNA.

They probably stole them so that Lucas and Chynna would take longer to be identified. And that's exactly what happened. Their prints and DNA were not on file so I don't know how concerned they were about that (plus, I don't think these guys were avid watchers of Forensic Files, you know? They weren't smart.)

But, Lucas and Chynna were identified, I think on the 18th. And on the 19th, Professor Dyck was murdered (and that was charged as second-degree murder for some reason). So maybe that's why they decided to burn the car the next time. These guys were pretty dumb and they probably thought burning a car makes it unidentifiable.

 

[CinNC]

PART 2
More panic. More bad decisions. They can’t go home now. They try to hide their camper in the woods and end up stuck. They need a new ride and find a helpful, friendly plant prof. It’s not easy for them, but they kill him and take his Rav4, grab what they want of their own stuff.

SBM

Very astute reasoning and I tend to agree. There is just one thing, I don't think the murder of LD was committed reluctantly. I think it was more violent, and intentionally so.

Not only did his family ask that the cause of his death be withheld, but there is something else I read. I had googled LD about 3'ish weeks ago, and there was a statement made by one of the academics on the University site where LD was a professor. The academic paid a kind and complimentary tribute to LD and went on to say how horrified all of his colleagues were that he was killed in such a cold-blooded, violent manner.

I went back a few days later to find this tribute, and while it was still there it had been edited to leave out the part about the murder. This was about the same time that LD's family said they did not want his cause of death publicized. I don't have the dates that I first found the link and then realized it had been changed, as I really wasn't conscious of documenting such things; at least not then.

It is also mentioned that upon first meeting LD, he had a gruff exterior. So the LD that first encountered BS and KM may not have come across as someone willing to help and accommodate them. JMO

In memoriam of Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca
Sad news about Len Dyck | botany.ubc.ca

 

[Moriarty]

It doesn't make sense that if they killed out of panic and regretted it, that they would then escalate their crimes and make things worse, make things so that they would never be forgiven.

SBM (just learned the proper etiquette for this on this thread yesterday!)
You may be right, @SnooperDuper. But it might be possible that a bad decision leads to even worse ones, with a sense of doors closed and no possible way out. Regret, anxiety, fear...and then to possibly hear that there might be evidence or even a witness...who knows what logic these two might be using.

Just an idea anyway. I appreciate your point.

 

[sandbar]

But ... aren't these guys, by general consensus here, hard killers? Haven't they just murdered 3 people? And they're hiding their guns before pulling over for an unarmed check-stop? Put yourself in their seats for a moment. Would you meekly give up at this point? Any cursory request by the officer to see a driving licence or vehicle documents, and your hooped.

I'm on a completely different thought track here. I believe K&B were locked into a "game-state". I think they were constructing logic, behaviour, or rules to the game as they went, in an ad hoc way: making it up as they go. I don't think they are hardened murderers. I don't think they acted meekly, as you suggest. I think it was in their best interest at the time to hide their guns and that's what they did. And that was their mindset throughout: how do we get through this? I think that K&B were on a twisted spiritquest of sorts. Just my way of making sense of all their seemingly contradictory/bonehead/senseless actions.

ETA: if I were to rewrite this, I'd have added some of @Moriarty's well written narrative, as I agree that bad decisions more often than not, lead to more bad decisions.

 

[Jan424]

Oops. My bad for not noticing. Apologies.

No apologies necessary! We were just thinking alike!

 

[Jan424]

As someone who is neurotic and fidgety, I see a fellow neurotic fidgeter in Bryer. MOO

Same here! I'd wondered how long he was going to keep "buttoning" his shirt in the Co-op, he was at it for quite awhile. So, maybe he is simply as you said, neurotic and fidgety, I can totally see that being the case. MOO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

At 18, not a lot of kids have a big picture vision of their future. It's pretty extreme to give up on a town and a life there because you've worked for 5 weeks at your first job at Walmart and didn't like it. They probably didn't even know what they wanted to do with their lives yet. No one has said of BS or KM, "he wanted to be a [whatever]". I don't think they had even formed any goals, let alone decided that they weren't possible in Port Alberni.

The main point is that they would have to have approached the van armed, and who the heck does that in Canada? I mean, really. I think they approached with intent to use the gun.

It's counter-intuitive that they killed by "panic" and then, instead of getting the heck out of there, went and stole wallets. You'd think they would want nothing more to do with the crime scene if they were indeed "in panic/fear/stress", and would not stop to pillage the van and leave prints and DNA.

I'm in favour of your theory, these guys were looking for trouble. Their victims were in isolated areas, just sitting ducks, sadly.

We can only surmise they wanted 'glory', maybe, KM and BS hated their lives, hated everyone and took it out on 3 innocent people, suicide may have been on the cards for a long time.

I've got faith in the RCMP and it appears, so has Lucas Fowler's dad, the evidence linking KM and BS to both crimes may be quite substantial, boot prints, finger/hand prints, DNA, bullet casings, articles of clothing etc. We just have to wait.

 

[Zella]

Same here! I'd wondered how long he was going to keep "buttoning" his shirt in the Co-op, he was at it for quite awhile. So, maybe he is simply as you said, neurotic and fidgety, I can totally see that being the case. MOO

What was kind of a tell for me is his face didn't really look nervous. He actually looked kind of zoned out, like a space cadet to me. Even his looking around the store doesn't really seem to have a purpose. Kam looking around the store looks more focused to me. In any event, I think it was just a habit of Bryer's to be kind of fidgety. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

What was kind of a tell for me is his face didn't really look nervous. He actually looked kind of zoned out, like a space cadet to me. Even his looking around the store doesn't really seem to have a purpose. Kam looking around the store looks more focused to me. In any event, I think it was just a habit of Bryer's to be kind of fidgety. MOO

Between the Ritalin, the fidgetiness and being zoned out, the mention of "learning difficulties" in the 60 Minutes interview, and the weird impulsive behavior, I'm pretty sure he had ADHD. JMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

This is my theory of the crime:

I think that BS and KM set out on an outlaw adventure. I think they had the idea that they would run amok and wreak havoc and evade authorities, with no specifics on how or who or why. They envisioned living a game, and they thought that they would be very good at it.

They lied about their intent to family, giving multiple destinations and no sort of plan as to how they were going to live legitimately. They told their grandmother that they didn't like Whitehorse despite never getting there (and if they had, it was the weekend, so they wouldn't have given a minute to exploring finding work).

They basically roamed around northern BS aimlessly, looking for trouble, looking for an opportunity for excitement.

They came across the van and had to have approached it armed. They broke the back window, and surprised the occupants, and shot them as they came out of the van. They pillaged the van for what was useful and portable: the wallets. (I suspect that they used a credit or debit card of the victims and that is what triggered the RCMP to elevate them from missing to suspects.)

They roamed again, completely under the radar at that point, seeking another opportunity to raise hell. They came across a rest stop and found LD there, taking a break. They shot and killed him to acquire a more nimble and anonymous vehicle and both "covered their tracks" and taunted the police by burning their own, and fled the area.

Now only "missing" according to the news, they had a head start on police. The chase was on. Their plan to live as outlaws had been realized and the authorities were after them.

By bad planning they ended up at the end of the road, and decided to set out on foot and find another conveyance. They burned the RAV4 to taunt authorities and add fuel to the chase.

They found the boat and loaded it with some of their possessions and set it upon the river without them. This was to be a decoy to mislead police. It didn't work well because the boat spilled on nearby rapids they did not know about.

They hid out in the woods with some small amount of gear, and soon realized they were under-equipped for long-term survival. As well, the sky was buzzing with aircraft and they could not leave their cover.

They may have run out of food. The conditions may have gotten to them. They didn't want to get caught, but live free or die. They decided that their game was over.

They left a video message to say that this is the way they wanted it to be, and killed themselves.

 

[steelybird]

The main point is that they would have to have approached the van armed, and who the heck does that in Canada? I mean, really. I think they approached with intent to use the gun.

SBM Absolutely 100% agree with this. Excellent point. I have spent the last 22 years doing road trips each summer around northern B.C. (I have family up in Hazelton and we often continue on to Alaska after visiting). It is generally such a peaceful, easygoing, friendly vibe amongst travelers and locals. The fact that they approached the vehicle with their weapons is so eerie. The aftermath of course being completely heartbreaking and gut wrenching.

 

[CinNC]

SBM (just learned the proper etiquette for this on this thread yesterday!)
You may be right, @SnooperDuper. But it might be possible that a bad decision leads to even worse ones, with a sense of doors closed and no possible way out. Regret, anxiety, fear...and then to possibly hear that there might be evidence or even a witness...who knows what logic these two might be using.

Just an idea anyway. I appreciate your point.

SBM

Not to mention that they likely hadn't had any idea that the insects would drive them mad once they were in the bush. I've read several articles that said they were predicted to be especially bad this Summer due to a wet Spring.

I've done a lot of reading about the bugs and they are a big part of history. Old accounts from fur traders indicate they could literally drive a horse crazy, until they thrashed and ran to their own demise. To this day, the bugs impact migration routes of moose and other short-coated, susceptible wildlife. I read an account by an entymologist (see linked article) that said a thick mosquito swarm could drain a human of HALF of their blood in two hours.

If one or both were injured and unable to continue on foot, the insects may very well have played a role i their final decision. I'm sure their faces in the video would have shown the results of exposure to insects.
Opinion: Mosquitoes are a Canadian icon – and a growing public health risk

 

[SnooperDuper]

Between the Ritalin, the fidgetiness and being zoned out, the mention of "learning difficulties" in the 60 Minutes interview, and the weird impulsive behavior, I'm pretty sure he had ADHD. JMO.

Personally I don't believe the Ritalin story. It's too cartoonish to imagine BS with a Nazi armband snorting Ritalin off a Nazi replica knife. The kid that gave that account made those claims without a parent present and without giving their identity so that his wild story would not come back on him.

For all we know BS only pulled a picture of the armband off of Pinterest and sent it around for larks. There's no proof he actually owned it. I am waiting for the RCMP to announce that they actually found paraphernalia in BS's family's houses before I believe any of that. The story is just too over the top.

 

[Jan424]

What was kind of a tell for me is his face didn't really look nervous. He actually looked kind of zoned out, like a space cadet to me. Even his looking around the store doesn't really seem to have a purpose. Kam looking around the store looks more focused to me. In any event, I think it was just a habit of Bryer's to be kind of fidgety. MOO

Yes, agree with all of this. He was just kind of following Kam around, all the while fiddling with this shirt. Though his expression upon leaving seemed less zoned out, with his eyes darting around .. that's where I thought he looked somewhat anxious, but it could just go to him being a bit of a neurotic. As always, MOO!