Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[SovereignSnake]

They got to the end of the highway. It ends in Sundance.

Hwy 290 actually ends 16 miles past Sundance at Keewatinohk Converter Station Camp.

I doubt it. Even cursory research would indicate otherwise.

Not necessarily, I've learned so much about this part of Canada throughout this whole investigation. I initially assumed looking on a map these were nice little port towns, albeit commercial port towns. I've come to realize most of them are nothing more than ghost towns and historical relics of days gone. Now I have to wonder if Kam and Bryer knew anything of Churchill? Now that is an example commercial port town.

 

[Kiantra]

I know we are still speculating the cause of death for Mr. Dyck but I remembered this article that mentions he was shot.
Dad of Lucas Fowler's alleged killer gave son rifle 'for play'

And, every time I look at this picture of Bryer it just saddens me. He looked so innocent with a mischievous smile.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Vancouver Island is only 460km or 290 miles in length. AS claimed B had never been off it and we don’t know if K travelled. But regardless, at the age of 18 and 19 their worldly experiences were very small. It would not surprise me a bit if they believed all roads led somewhere or if the end was near a large body of water, then it led to a shipping port because that’s within the realm of their personal knowledge.

I bet very few, if any, of us here have ever experienced this sight:

View attachment 201120

RCMP press on as hunt for B.C. fugitives enters second week

Ok but...the internet exists. Maps exist, and according to the Split Lake officers, they had a ton of them. General knowledge exists. I've never been to any boreal forest region either but I've known since childhood that most settlements in the arctic/subarctic region are small, many are inaccessible by car, and that much of the terrain is impassable. If they really were into survivalism and Russian history (which includes Siberia which is similar terrain) they would have had an idea of that. Also on maps the size of a settlement is indicated on the map by the size of the marker on there.

Hwy 290 actually ends 16 miles past Sundance at Keewatinohk Converter Station Camp.

That's not what it says online:
Manitoba Provincial Road 290 - Wikipedia

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree that a lot of Bryer's "edgy" words and actions came out of a desire for attention. However I don't think notoriety was a motive for the murders because of their lack of social media or other internet presence. There have been a lot of "notoriety" killings committed by young people in recent times, and all of them had some kind of public online footprint with hints being dropped, manifestos, etc.

I’m not sure what you mean by “notoriety killings”. All murders are equally horrific IMO, regardless of the motive. The general public is merely bystanders and so it’s our choice whether we label a criminal to have committed a “notoriety killing” by how much attention we give the murderer, before, during or after the crime regardless if there’s hints or manifestos left behind.

But if notoriety/attraction getting was involved, nobody can argue they certainly did attract RCMP attention because it was the murders of the 3 innocent victims that resulted in the police undertaking a manhunt.

B&K intentionally caused the RCMP to take interest in them by burning the truck and camper close to the body of a dead man. Then again, burning the RAV4 they announced their presence north of Gillam a second time. Their escape from B.C. as wanted armed and dangerous fugitives was as close to intentionally waving a red flag to gain notice by the RCMP as renting a public billboard IMO.

 

[sprucetip]

I had no idea...
Manitoba Herps Atlas - Snakes (Colubridae, Natricidae and Xenodontidae)
But keep in mind that where K&B were found is justjustjust sub artic...

No snakes in northern Manitoba.

 

[SovereignSnake]

That's not what it says online:
Manitoba Provincial Road 290 - Wikipedia

"PR 290 intersects with a local road that begins to climb a mountain, where it enters downtown Sundance. The highway terminates ends about 27 kilometers from Sundance where there are service trailers by the river shore."

We're splitting hairs here, but 27 kilometers or 16 miles roughly the road ends Northeast of Sundance according to Google Maps.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I agree, armed, approaching a van parked on the side of the road in the middle of the night suggests they were anticipating sleeping occupants to be inside. It’s the victims who suffered panic/fear/stress not the perpetrators! If murder wasn’t in their realm of possibilities, they had the opportunity to order L&C out of the van by gunpoint, taking whatever they wanted, driving away and leaving them alive.

After the murders, they had at least 4 days think about their next steps and maybe just hightail it back home, feigning disappointment over the lack of jobs up north. Or at that point if remorse was a factor at play at all they could’ve confessed or ended their lives then.

But nobody knew they were killers at that point in time. Maybe they were becoming antsy because police hadn’t figured it out yet? Because it was the murder of LD that drew attention to them, by burning their truck and camper close to his body on the side of the road. As LD was noted to be a pacifist, after they stole his vehicle they could’ve left him stranded walking down the side of the highway. No way was his murder a result of fear or panic a second time. The 2nd degree murder charges filed earlier indicates there is evidence of intent.

Then came the flight from police after the two left their calling card - the torched truck and camper. I think there’s a real possibility they intentionally instigated the manhunt and it was involved in their motive to murder innocent people on the onset. “A catch us if you can” setup.

Had the RCMP been unsuccessful in learning their whereabouts at almost a dead end road in Northern Manitoba and had they not employed significant resources including involvement of the military, does anyone really believe the two would’ve been found dead at that remote location, on the banks of the Nelson River? I don’t think so, they died by suicide to avoid capture because they never intended to be voluntarily arrested, exactly as AS had predicted. It really seems to me to have been a suicide mission from the onset, but only if they lost “the game”, as they obviously placed no more value on the lives of others than they did their own.

JMO

Well said, may good points. The two had lots of time and many outs from this situation. Personally I think it was like a game to them and the two burned vehicles and the wrecked boat were (successful) attempts to troll the authorities.

 

[SnooperDuper]

re: approaching the van armed.

Not necessarily. They could have approached the van unarmed, looked inside, saw two people inside, and then fetched their weapons. Or, it's even possible they started pilfering from the van without noticing that was a couple inside, and then ran back to get their weapons.

What if they saw a wallet or purse in front, stole it, and were then confronted by Lucas? They may have then decided to fetch their weapons and murder the couple to avoid being arrested for stealing the wallet or purse.

I'd argue that they couldn't really pilfer from the van without alerting the occupants. A van door makes a lot of noise, and so does breaking a window!

I'd then argue that they had to have the weapons in hand because the two victims ended up right near the van. If they awoke LF and CD then went back to their truck to get weapons, and LD and CD came outside, LF and CD would have a chance to see that KM and BS were approaching again, armed, and they could have run some distance, or locked themselves in the van, or would have been at least shot from behind. The fact that LF and CD were found so close to the van and had front-facing wounds suggests to me that KM and BS were right there armed with their guns when the victims exited the van.

 

[SovereignSnake]

I had another question about Leonard and his interaction with Kam and Bryer. It says in this article one of his camping trips with his kids actually resulted from him heading off up north alone (Northern British Columbia I assume.) He sounds like he was definitely a lone adventurer. Would it be too far fetched of a theory to speculate that Leonard actually met Kam and Bryer whilst also camping next to them and they spent a couple days together? Or perhaps they kept randomly bumping into one another over the course of several days. I mean the man was a professor and I've always found all my college professors to be incredibly social, even with complete strangers. Especially those younger. (Teacher and learner.) In fact I loved talking to my old professors. Particularly the "old guard" vs the younger professors.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/26/fathe...-by-teens-in-canada-was-on-solo-camping-trip/

 

[MistyWaters]

That's not what it says online:
Manitoba Provincial Road 290 - Wikipedia

Yes, PR290 probably might officially end at Sundance but on google maps it’s evident the road continues onward and so the reason would be the next stretch is maintained by either the owners of the power dams or the municipal district, but not the province. Just because a designated highway number or road “title” ends, doesn’t automatically mean the road ends. It just indicates the separation of maintenance responsibility.

 

[CanadianMade]

Ok but...the internet exists. Maps exist, and according to the Split Lake officers, they had a ton of them.

SBM
BBM

That all depends on which article or person you believe....


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/first-nation-constable-stopped-homicide-suspects-1.5230779

 

[Snoop Sister]

But ... aren't these guys, by general consensus here, hard killers? Haven't they just murdered 3 people? And they're hiding their guns before pulling over for an unarmed check-stop? Put yourself in their seats for a moment. Would you meekly give up at this point? Any cursory request by the officer to see a driving licence or vehicle documents, and your hooped.

Here in Canada ... innocent to proven guilty. Not saying they didn’t kill Prof Dyck, Lucas or Chyna but they need to be proven guilty. They are not hard killers..whatever that means.

 

[Snoop Sister]

The same discussions have been going in circles for the last two months. ..is there anything new? When is the press release?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I’m not sure what you mean by “notoriety killings”.

I mean, murders motivated by the desire for notoriety. I thought that is what we were talking about.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Ok but...the internet exists. Maps exist, and according to the Split Lake officers, they had a ton of them. General knowledge exists. I've never been to any boreal forest region either but I've known since childhood that most settlements in the arctic/subarctic region are small, many are inaccessible by car, and that much of the terrain is impassable. If they really were into survivalism and Russian history (which includes Siberia which is similar terrain) they would have had an idea of that. Also on maps the size of a settlement is indicated on the map by the size of the marker on there.

That's not what it says online:
Manitoba Provincial Road 290 - Wikipedia

The internet is a tool you need to learn how to use, and at 18, I hardly expect them to be experts at interpreting knowledge. You can give some people all the internet they can handle and it still doesn't make them any smarter.

Look at how many people have been led astray by GPS devices and ended up stuck in the middle of nowhere with no recourse - and these are generally people with decades of "adulting" under their belts.

As well, KM and BS did not leave a digital trail for the RCMP to follow, implying that they did not use a cell phone or computer during the journey. There may be plenty of information on the internet, but these boys were not accessing it.

Just because BS was interested in Russian history does not mean he's an expert in geography, flora, fauna, cusine, lifestyle...I really highly doubt he had a comprehensive knowledge that helped him in any way. I think he was interested in war and consuming the propaganda of WWII without having any insight into whether it was right, wrong, or made any sense at all. He sure didn't understand how his own ethnicity related to WWII propaganda.

If BS and KM had any idea of what the roads were like up north they would have stuck with the truck and not transferred into a much more delicate RAV4 which is a very small SUV marketed to city dwellers.

In short they were 18 and still dumb kids and had lots to learn and discover in life. I am pretty sure they did not expect to find themselves at the end of the road and the edge of Canada in Gillam, and I doubt they even had any idea of where they were relative to Churchill or anywhere else.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I am pretty sure they did not expect to find themselves at the end of the road and the edge of Canada in Gillam, and I doubt they even had any idea of where they were relative to Churchill or anywhere else.

Yes, and that's exactly the point I was getting at. If their escape was planned in any way, even cursory research would have indicated that there weren't any major settlements in the area, and that the tiny ports were not accessible by road. I don't think they had any plan of getting to a port or anything. I don't think they did any research beforehand or during. I think they just picked a direction and traveled in that direction until they couldn't anymore.

 

[MistyWaters]

I had another question about Leonard and his interaction with Kam and Bryer. It says in this article one of his camping trips with his kids actually resulted from him heading off up north alone (Northern British Columbia I assume.) He sounds like he was definitely a lone adventurer. Would it too far fetched of a theory to speculate that Leonard actually met Kam and Bryer whilst also camping next to them and they spent a couple days together? Or perhaps they kept randomly bumping into one another over the course of several days. I mean the man was a professor and I've always found all my college professors to be incredibly social, even with complete strangers. Especially those younger. (Teacher and learner.) In fact I loved talking to my old professors.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/26/fathe...-by-teens-in-canada-was-on-solo-camping-trip/

As much as I don’t like to, I’ve thought about this possibility as well. I think an easy going, social, adventurous University Professor would be far more interested in striking up a conversation with two teens camping nearby than a typical lone traveller his age.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'd argue that they couldn't really pilfer from the van without alerting the occupants. A van door makes a lot of noise, and so does breaking a window!

I'd then argue that they had to have the weapons in hand because the two victims ended up right near the van. If they awoke LF and CD then went back to their truck to get weapons, and LD and CD came outside, LF and CD would have a chance to see that KM and BS were approaching again, armed, and they could have run some distance, or locked themselves in the van, or would have been at least shot from behind. The fact that LF and CD were found so close to the van and had front-facing wounds suggests to me that KM and BS were right there armed with their guns when the victims exited the van.

If they approached the van and discovered occupants inside, going back to the truck to obtain weapons is First Degree Murder because that act proves premeditation. The alternative of non-violent people would be to just drive away.

It’s not unheard of for a Good Samaritan to approach a vehicle they think might be abandoned in order to report it or if there’s reason to believe the occupants might be in medical distress, they may attempt to break into it.

But in this situation, I agree, it seems obvious to me the two approached the van with malicious intent at the onset and two innocent passengers dying by homicide proves it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Well said, may good points. The two had lots of time and many outs from this situation. Personally I think it was like a game to them and the two burned vehicles and the wrecked boat were (successful) attempts to troll the authorities.

Trolling the authorities, that’s an excellent description!

Yes, precisely how I perceive the totality of their actions, it was a game.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Here in Canada ... innocent to proven guilty. Not saying they didn’t kill Prof Dyck, Lucas or Chyna but they need to be proven guilty. They are not hard killers..whatever that means.

Sure, just regular killers.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is for the courtroom: at the start of the trial, things are set up such that no one has any prior knowledge of the suspects or the crime, and the trial begins with a clean slate. Evidence is then presented to prove the accused's guilt.

Saying "innocent until proven guilty" is a declaration that nothing that has been presented in the media counts for anything, and that's just not true. In the real world outside of a courtroom, we are exposed to all sorts of evidence, and we shouldn't ignore it. There's lots of evidence that KM and BS acted in a guilty manner, and there are guilty circumstances such as LD's RAV4 ending up in Gillam with KM and BS. We can't declare them innocent because we know far more already than a newly formed jury would.