Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[srper2]

This is Canada, not the US. They brought in a negotiation team and told people to stay in their houses. They most likely committed suicide because they didn't want to face life in prison with 75 years to parole.

There was no "clothing" by the riverside: they found unspecified "personal items". The "clothing" red herring is a fabrication of WS posters and not supported by any news article.

RCMP announced that they had found the bodies one day after finding them.

They could have easily put gear in the boat and pushed it onto the river so that it went over the rapids without them.

It's hard to have a shoot-out when only one side is armed. The safety officers at the checkpoint did not have guns.

BS and KM would not have known the checkpoint officers did not have guns. They were also very unlikely to have guessed there was a negotiation team there amongst the influx of heavily armed police, if they were still alive at that point. There has been no evidence supporting the suicide conclusion offered by police to date, so many of us see the "died by suicide because there were guns near their bodies" conclusion as speculative.

 

[drama_farmer]

I wonder the same thing.

Incidentally, the friend who called him "a big gaming nerd" used those exact words: "a happy person."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...c-teens-subject-of-national-manhunt-1.5222515

It might also be that Kam was one of those "camera happy" types of people. You know, the type who makes sure to smile and look carefree when they KNOW their photo is about to be taken.

I've always been hesitant to use the little I know about interpreting body language when it comes to a body that belongs to a complete stranger. Without a greater sample size of videos that portray the subject both engaged in similar activities as well as taking part in just random activities, I'd bet against the chances that my "body language" observations and speculations are meaningful in any way.
IMO, based on my experience.

ETA And. . . it looks like I'm late to the party! I'm a bit behind with the thread, and many others have offered similar views over the last few pages!

 

[Zella]

It might also be that Kam was one of those "camera happy" types of people. You know, the type who makes sure to smile and look carefree when they KNOW their photo is about to be taken.

I've always been hesitant to use the little I know about interpreting body language when it comes to a body that belongs to a complete stranger. Without a greater sample size of videos that portray the subject both engaged in similar activities as well as taking part in just random activities, I'd bet against the chances that my "body language" observations and speculations are meaningful in any way.
IMO, based on my experience.

ETA And. . . it looks like I'm late to the party! I'm a bit behind with the thread, and many others have offered similar views over the last few pages!

Agreed! One of the things so odd about this case is it is 2019, and there is so little out there image-wise of either of the suspects. It is hard to get a baseline on either of them when only a handful of pictures of them before the crimes are available.

 

[NJSleuth91]

It might also be that Kam was one of those "camera happy" types of people. You know, the type who makes sure to smile and look carefree when they KNOW their photo is about to be taken.

Possible, but everyone who knew him has also described him as being kind and happy. I could be wrong but I also get the sense that he didn't really like having his picture taken, given the lack of photos of him that are available, and that he had no pictures of himself on social media (the only one of him was on Bryer's account).

 

[cartman]

I know we are still speculating the cause of death for Mr. Dyck but I remembered this article that mentions he was shot.
Dad of Lucas Fowler's alleged killer gave son rifle 'for play'

And, every time I look at this picture of Bryer it just saddens me. He looked so innocent with a mischievous smile.

Bryer looks like a young Justin Bieber in that photo.

 

[CinNC]

Between the Ritalin, the fidgetiness and being zoned out, the mention of "learning difficulties" in the 60 Minutes interview, and the weird impulsive behavior, I'm pretty sure he had ADHD. JMO.

I am a portrait artist and one of the first things I ever noticed about BS were his eyebrows. They have a pronounced arch, and being very dark in color they almost make him look "pretty". They give him a perpetual look of "deer in the headlights", or like he is surprised by something.

Taking this into consideration, to me, he has a permanent look of being zoned out, or in a state of not being cognizant of what is happening in the real world around him. It's apparent in the pics of him as little kid, too. It is very disarming and can make a person think he looks zoned out or even innocent and "nice". JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Agreed! One of the things so odd about this case is it is 2019, and there is so little out there image-wise of either of the suspects. It is hard to get a baseline on either of them when only a handful of pictures of them before the crimes are available.

I think not having an avid SM presence is far more common than not, particularly with teens who are not at the peak of the popularity scale. And life for kids growing up in smaller places is not the same as large cities where social opportunities can be found online by strangers trying to impress other strangers.

It will be their closest friends who know more about them than anyone else aside from the immediate family members who’ve not spoken out. All of them would’ve provided information to police. Why tell the media when it’s the RCMP who’s investigating? NG would’ve had a lot of blank airspace had she conducted her show in Canada focusing on Canadian crime IMO.

 

[sandbar]

Vancouver Island is only 460km or 290 miles in length. AS claimed B had never been off it and we don’t know if K travelled. But regardless, at the age of 18 and 19 their worldly experiences were very small. It would not surprise me a bit if they believed all roads led somewhere or if the end was near a large body of water, then it led to a shipping port because that’s within the realm of their personal knowledge.

I bet very few, if any, of us here have ever experienced this sight:

View attachment 201120

RCMP press on as hunt for B.C. fugitives enters second week

Great analysis. It got me thinking: imagine their world was even smaller than that because of low or lack of social skills gaming.

And, in gaming, there isn't an "end", right? The gameworld just simply opens up in front of players and is created by the players' actions...

 

[MistyWaters]

Possible, but everyone who knew him has also described him as being kind and happy. I could be wrong but I also get the sense that he didn't really like having his picture taken, given the lack of photos of him that are available, and that he had no pictures of himself on social media (the only one of him was on Bryer's account).

I think it’s impossible to get any sense of somebody by a few comments made from casual acquaintances to the media at a time when the two were still believed to be missing.

Why the need to “know” either of these two given they’re accused of murdering three innocent people? Obviously something was severely unhinged about both of them and as they chose to take their own lives, they were too cowardly to take responsibility.

 

[copkid]

I know we are still speculating the cause of death for Mr. Dyck.

SBM

This was posted back in thread #14 post #28, and the poster, @Seattle1, states it is from a very reliable news source.

This, however, has never been confirmed by RCMP or any Canadian MSM???

@Seattle1 wrote:
ACCORDING TO AUS 9NEWS - LEONARD DYCK WAS SHOT

Aug 11, 2019

"I never gave him a real gun. I never gave him a gun that would kill someone."

Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod were wanted over the deaths of three people, including Australian man Lucas Fowler and his American girlfriend, Chynna Deese.

They were connected to the crimes after local university Professor Leonard Dyck was found shot dead on the side of a highway in regional far north Canada. bbm

Dad of Lucas Fowler's alleged killer gave son rifle 'for play'

ETA: AUS news were first to report that Lucas and Chynna were shot dead. After this report, RCMP announced the couple died of gun violence.
Perhaps RCMP will now confirm the same for Leonard Dyck.
END QUOTE.

 

[MistyWaters]

Great analysis. It got me thinking: imagine their world was even smaller than that because of low or lack of social skills gaming.

And, in gaming, there isn't an "end", right? The gameworld just simply opens up in front of players and is created by the players' actions...

I’m also still wondering if there’s “an end” in an online gaming situation. IIRC AS said B&K played as teammates. So in a game involving opposing teams, if one side was about to get annihilated by the enemy in a violent, realistic shoot-to-kill war game, what happens? Does the losing team watch their online character either get captured or massacred to die a bloody death? Or is creating suicide of the character a means to avoid that, even though that’d still be indicative of game over.

 

[sandbar]

so many of us see the "died by suicide because there were guns near their bodies" conclusion as speculative.

sbm
bbm

What's a more reasonable conclusion?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think not having an avid SM presence is far more common than not, particularly with teens who are not at the peak of the popularity scale. And life for kids growing up in smaller places is not the same as large cities where social opportunities can be found online by strangers trying to impress other strangers.

It will be their closest friends who know more about them than anyone else aside from the immediate family members who’ve not spoken out. All of them would’ve provided information to police. Why tell the media when it’s the RCMP who’s investigating? NG would’ve had a lot of blank airspace had she conducted her show in Canada focusing on Canadian crime IMO.

Jumping off your post in regards to SM... I could see B&K being quasi part of the anti-social media movement a bit for another reason not a huge online presence in that area.

There are many out there who feel social media is too Big Brother or Orwellian. I've noticed with younger people there are those who have a mistrust of the government, media, advertising and social media and kinda want to "drop out" from the system/establishment. They tend to resent most of the social media. Bryer referenced "let's talk politics" or something, so wanting to feel intellectual in their ideas. All MOO

 

[sandbar]

Jumping off your post in regards to SM... I could see B&K being quasi part of the anti-social media movement a bit for another reason not a huge online presence in that area.

There are many out there who feel social media is too Big Brother or Orwellian. I've noticed with younger people there are those who have a mistrust of the government, media, advertising and social media and kinda want to "drop out" from the system/establishment. They tend to resent most of the social media. Bryer referenced "let's talk politics" or something, so wanting to feel intellectual in their ideas. All MOO

In gaming too, there's a whole other world of SM on Steam and Twitch. And, some games have voice-to-voice, so there's no record of anything. If there are chat functions, I wonder if they are confidential, like private chats on WS.

 

[elondriel]

I’m also still wondering if there’s “an end” in an online gaming situation. IIRC AS said B&K played as teammates. So in a game involving opposing teams, if one side was about to get annihilated by the enemy in a violent, realistic shoot-to-kill war game, what happens? Does the losing team watch their online character either get captured or massacred to die a bloody death? Or is creating suicide of the character a means to avoid that, even though that’d still be indicative of game over.

Depending on the game and whether you are in first person or third person it may just bring up a screen with your stats for the round. It may bring up a screen asking if you want to respawn elsewhere. Or if it is a match game, generally it puts you in spectator mode and you watch one of your fellow teammates or can hit a key and go back to the lobby. Some games your body lays there a second and is gone, other games it is there to be looted. The latter being common in many genres of games. For instance in fantasy type games you kill a monster if there is anything on it then it stays for a few minutes or until you loot it. In those types of games if your character dies, you can respawn back to a base or wait for someone to come and resurrect you.

Hope this gives you some idea.

 

[MistyWaters]

BS and KM would not have known the checkpoint officers did not have guns. They were also very unlikely to have guessed there was a negotiation team there amongst the influx of heavily armed police, if they were still alive at that point. There has been no evidence supporting the suicide conclusion offered by police to date, so many of us see the "died by suicide because there were guns near their bodies" conclusion as speculative.

The band constables were not wearing uniforms although reportedly they wore a fluorescent vests. They would never be driving a vehicle resembling a RCMP vehicle so I can see why it’d be easy for anyone to mistake them for construction workers. Construction workers do not carry weapons.

The evidence to support the two died by suicide is contained in the autopsy file but that will definitely not be released to the general public to “prove” it.

 

[srper2]

This is my theory of the crime:

I think that BS and KM set out on an outlaw adventure. I think they had the idea that they would run amok and wreak havoc and evade authorities, with no specifics on how or who or why. They envisioned living a game, and they thought that they would be very good at it.

They lied about their intent to family, giving multiple destinations and no sort of plan as to how they were going to live legitimately. They told their grandmother that they didn't like Whitehorse despite never getting there (and if they had, it was the weekend, so they wouldn't have given a minute to exploring finding work).

They basically roamed around northern BS aimlessly, looking for trouble, looking for an opportunity for excitement.

They came across the van and had to have approached it armed. They broke the back window, and surprised the occupants, and shot them as they came out of the van. They pillaged the van for what was useful and portable: the wallets. (I suspect that they used a credit or debit card of the victims and that is what triggered the RCMP to elevate them from missing to suspects.)

They roamed again, completely under the radar at that point, seeking another opportunity to raise hell. They came across a rest stop and found LD there, taking a break. They shot and killed him to acquire a more nimble and anonymous vehicle and both "covered their tracks" and taunted the police by burning their own, and fled the area.

Now only "missing" according to the news, they had a head start on police. The chase was on. Their plan to live as outlaws had been realized and the authorities were after them.

By bad planning they ended up at the end of the road, and decided to set out on foot and find another conveyance. They burned the RAV4 to taunt authorities and add fuel to the chase.

They found the boat and loaded it with some of their possessions and set it upon the river without them. This was to be a decoy to mislead police. It didn't work well because the boat spilled on nearby rapids they did not know about.

They hid out in the woods with some small amount of gear, and soon realized they were under-equipped for long-term survival. As well, the sky was buzzing with aircraft and they could not leave their cover.

They may have run out of food. The conditions may have gotten to them. They didn't want to get caught, but live free or die. They decided that their game was over.

They left a video message to say that this is the way they wanted it to be, and killed themselves.

Nothing indicates they planned to live as outlaws, this seems completely unplanned. I doubt they would have miraculously stumbled upon the boat right after burning their vehicle. I also doubt they would have had the confidence to go back to the area near the vehicle to retrieve stashed equipment from some mysterious belongings stash (in an area now with Police everywhere), to set up a scenario to mislead and be "outlaws".

 

[sandbar]

I’m also still wondering if there’s “an end” in an online gaming situation. IIRC AS said B&K played as teammates. So in a game involving opposing teams, if one side was about to get annihilated by the enemy in a violent, realistic shoot-to-kill war game, what happens? Does the losing team watch their online character either get captured or massacred to die a bloody death? Or is creating suicide of the character a means to avoid that, even though that’d still be indicative of game over.

I'm guessing, but I imagine in some games that's a changeable setting. In K&B's game, IMO, they would have made that rule at the beginning: together or bust...

 

[elondriel]

In gaming too, there's a whole other world of SM on Steam and Twitch. And, some games have voice-to-voice, so there's no record of anything. If there are chat functions, I wonder if they are confidential, like private chats on WS.

Chat functions in game as far as text goes, you can have global chat meaning anyone on that server sees, you can have group chat for just your group, and pending on the game you can private message people. I am not sure a chat log is kept or kept for long, but I know in one game I played if there was harassment going on you typed /report or something similar and it saved a chat log back for so many lines so that a moderator could look at it.

So pretty much unless someone took screenshots of things that were potentially said by Bryer and Kam then there is no record for text based communication. And even then with Photoshop you can alter the images so. As far as audio, if they were on Twitch and Youtube Gaming then they were streaming their games and somewhere there is likely evidence of that MOO.