Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[sandbar]

Overall I would say, maybe it's not the best idea for someone who is already emotionally disturbed to have these hobbies where they're pretend killing people.

Agreed.

Layer into that pretend killing in video games, witnessing violence at an early age, and possibly learning unhealthy coping strategies (I'm guilty of that) difficulty with school, mistrusting institutions, etc. Each factor alone, might be dealwithable, maybe 2 or 3 even. But if part of your deficit is not knowing how to deal with a deficit, you're corked, you're on your own, and that can feel devastating. Devastating...

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'm kind of surprised no pictures of Bryer wearing camo face paint have surfaced. It seems like something that would be right up his alley and that he would find cool enough to want to share photos of it with people he knew.

MOO

I'm sure he did wear it at some point, although there might not be pictures, or ones that were shared with the media. Also could tie into the thing about how you can put mud on your exposed skin to keep away insects in the bush.

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Agreed.

Layer into that pretend killing in video games, witnessing violence at an early age, and possibly learning unhealthy coping strategies (I'm guilty of that) difficulty with school, mistrusting institutions, etc. Each factor alone, might be dealwithable, maybe 2 or 3 even. But if part of your deficit is not knowing how to deal with a deficit, you're corked, you're on your own, and that can feel devastating. Devastating...

Well said. It wasn't any one factor, but a perfect storm of factors, and a lack of healthy coping skills to deal with them. And those unhealthy coping strategies and dysfunctional neural pathways can be very difficult to impossible to break.

 

[Gina20]

FYI, many school boards in Canada rent grad gowns to their students. The gowns are picked up before the ceremony and returned before leaving. Caps are deemed a hazard and not used in many places.

The gowns are worn twice a day during grad season, for a.m. and p.m. ceremonies in larger centres.

 

[srper2]

I think people have been reading their own bias into BS's photos. If we were part of the Airsoft and gaming community, we would see nothing wrong, in fact, probably see him "fitting in", having the gear everyone else has. Bryer wearing his Airsoft mask standing in front of the birthday banner makes a lot of sense to me, it was probably a birthday present that he wanted. The pic would be a positive memory for him and whoever may have given him the mask. Also, perhaps having the "correct" gear to show off in the games helped Bryer feel he was fitting in with his peers, which is quite a normal thing for a teenager to want to do. The camo uniform is either very likely a genuine trendy brand, or a knock off of one, which makes sense, considering he spent one of his first pays on a suit. I can imagine him planning to buy the winter liner that goes with it when it got cold. There are brands and themes that gamers all love to wear, for example KM's t-shirt, a classic trendy gamers shirt. People see what they want to see. It is difficult to understand how KM and BS could have allegedly murdered 3 strangers in cold blood. Some of the cognitive dissonance we experience in trying to understand this seemingly irrational behaviour is relieved by viewing information such as BS's pics and hobbies in a negative manner. This link discusses how cognitive dissonance makes it difficult to deal with the reality of some crimes, it isn't directly related to BS and KM, but explains why some people (like me) are still struggling to believe they would have been the murderers: There's a reason some can't accept Pell or Jackson evidence, and it's more common than you think

 

[copkid]

They apparently drove straight from Port Alberni to the Site C Dam, a 16 hour drive (or so). The BC government has been heavily touting all the jobs site C is creating. It seems highly unlikely that these two young job hunters would just blow through Fort St John without checking out the job situation. It would perfectly explain their detour east, if they were indeed headed to Whitehorse.

BBM

"They apparently drove straight from Port Alberni to Site C Dam" ??

How do we know this?

If the BC government is heavily touting jobs at Site C Dam, why would KM/BS not tell their families they were headed there to look for work? Parents always like a good plan with good prospects.

Do you think they changed their minds on the way to WH? Could they have seen or heard some advertising regarding these Site C jobs that made them take a detour?

ETA: Do you feel they initially headed out with good intentions of finding work and this detour you mention led them down the path to murder and suicide?

 

[CanadianMade]

I'm sure he did wear it at some point, although there might not be pictures, or ones that were shared with the media. Also could tie into the thing about how you can put mud on your exposed skin to keep away insects in the bush.



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Well said. It wasn't any one factor, but a perfect storm of factors, and a lack of healthy coping skills to deal with them. And those unhealthy coping strategies and dysfunctional neural pathways can be very difficult to impossible to break.

BBM

Post #702 in thread #6

CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #6

ETA: Posted by an Admin...

"DON'T start trying to diagnose these individuals with autism, etc. We aren't qualified to do so and it is offensive to all those wonderful peeps who may have the suggested diagnoses and aren't out there murdering others."

 

[LadyL]

FYI, many school boards in Canada rent grad gowns to their students. The gowns are picked up before the ceremony and returned before leaving. Caps are deemed a hazard and not used in many places.

The gowns are worn twice a day during grad season, for a.m. and p.m. ceremonies in larger centres.

Every school seems to be different as at mine, we did not rent/buy - we just borrowed and we did have caps.

 

[copkid]

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This will be a topic for the Behavioural Analysts.
This article explains some of the things considered for an analysis.

Behavioural analysts could help determine motive in B.C. murders: Expert

I am guessing the RCMP will have all medical records.
They will have all Family Court Records (BS)
I am guessing that the RCMP has spoken extensively with family and others that knew KM&BS very well?
The RCMP will have access to all their digital records. I believe all houses were searched and items removed when KM/BS were initally charged with LDs murder.

Behavioural Analysis is by no means an exact science but I feel the analysts will have a large amount of information to assist them.

I am hoping we can gain some good insight once this report is released.
JMO

 

[copkid]

SBM

There were statements from several of their friends (like the one in the 60 Minutes interview, and Bryer's gaming friends who he sent pictures to on Steam), former coworkers at Walmart, Bryer's mom/grandma/great-uncle, and Kam's family. And, while those statements weren't as detailed as Bryer's dad's interviews, they all seemed to give a pretty consistent picture of these guys.

The "pretty consistant picture" I am getting is that KM was a nice guy. Polite, considerate, cared about other people.
It appears(?) KM came from a solid stable family?
He was allowed the drive that nice truck/camper on a cross country adventure, sounds like his parents trusted him with that responsibility? Possibly even insured it for him?
I don't recall any of KMs family making statements other than the brief statement from KMs Dad.

They were both gamers.

BS clearly grew up in a volitile environment.
Divorced parents, step-parent, back and forth to Grandmother, s***ty home life, odd, edgy, talk of violence, etc.

I can't recall the source of the Nazi pics but if it SM or a game site, I feel they might have been an "image" thing. There are many people on SM "pretending" to be someone they are not. I feel BS was desperately seeking attention and negative attention or shock value attention was better than none at all. JMO

Was BS "troubled"? I feel he was. JMO

I don't recall BS's Mom making a statement.
Grandmother spoke with someone about the communication from BS until the 13th or 14th?

BS's great uncle spoke favourably and stated they had a good amount of money with them for their adventure.

However troubled BS was, both he and KM do not appear much different than many young men I know.

The "consistent picture" of two young men, one nice, one odd, heading out in a huge easily identifiable, hard on gas, truck/camper just doesn't seem to fit with two young men heading out on an intentional spree killing adventure, or attempting to live out a video game, it just doesn't make sense to me.
What happened on that trip that made everything change into catastrophe?

We may never know. MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

The "pretty consistant picture" I am getting is that KM was a nice guy. Polite, considerate, cared about other people.
It appears(?) KM came from a solid stable family?
He was allowed the drive that nice truck/camper on a cross country adventure, sounds like his parents trusted him with that responsibility? Possibly even insured it for him?
I don't recall any of KMs family making statements other than the brief statement from KMs Dad.

Pretty much. And there hasn't been any accounts I've read of anyone saying anything bad about Kam, or even saying he was depressed or troubled or anything. I don't think anyone's mask is that good. I think he actually was a kind, considerate person at one point, and something, or a series of events, pushed him over the edge.

And his parents trusted not only him with the expensive truck/camper, but also Bryer. So they must have had a good impression of Bryer as well.

BS clearly grew up in a volitile environment.
Divorced parents, step-parent, back and forth to Grandmother, s***ty home life, odd, edgy, talk of violence, etc.

I can't recall the source of the Nazi pics but if it SM or a game site, I feel they might have been an "image" thing. There are many people on SM "pretending" to be someone they are not. I feel BS was desperately seeking attention and negative attention or shock value attention was better than none at all. JMO

Was BS "troubled"? I feel he was. JMO

I agree with you on the attention thing and also maybe trying to find a place in the world or a purpose. The interesting thing is that about half the accounts say Bryer was disturbed, weird, an internet troll/edgelord, etc. and the other half say he was very quiet, polite, and introverted. I don't think that's even that unusual for teenagers though...I knew people like that growing up who had that sort of "duality" depending on the situation.

I don't recall BS's Mom making a statement.
Grandmother spoke with someone about the communication from BS until the 13th or 14th?

BS's great uncle spoke favourably and stated they had a good amount of money with them for their adventure.

His mom made a statement that he was a good person from a loving home who would never hurt anyone, or something to that effect. His grandma also said that "he was a great kid and I enjoyed living with him."

However troubled BS was, both he and KM do not appear much different than many young men I know.

The "consistent picture" of two young men, one nice, one odd, heading out in a huge easily identifiable, hard on gas, truck/camper just doesn't seem to fit with two young men heading out on an intentional spree killing adventure, or attempting to live out a video game, it just doesn't make sense to me.
What happened on that trip that made everything change into catastrophe?

We may never know. MOO

And therein lies the fascination in this case. When did things go wrong, and why?

I agree, I don't think from what we know, they sound all that different from any number of people you or I might have grown up with. There were definitely signs of Bryer being troubled, like praising Hitler from age 11, and the gun in mouth picture. But a lot of his behavior was considered to be normal, or at least not a cause for alarm, in the subcultures he was part of.

But on the other hand there's a lot of cases like that, where a young person with no history of violent behavior suddenly turns violent. So how can we identify signs before something like this happens?

I'm just hoping they had a thorough explanation on the video. It was the least they could do at that point for the loved ones of the victims and their own loved ones, honestly, to at least answer the question of what happened and why. If they themselves even knew why.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Yeah, his graduation picture ran on July 4, 2018, but I imagine it may have been taken earlier in the year or even the year before. Maybe one of our Canadians could shed a little more light on the usual timing for those pictures?

I think one of the more recent photos of Kam is maybe the butterfly one with him and Bryer, if only because Kam's face looks comparatively more chiseled and less baby-faced than he does in the other pictures, though I still think his face has changed between then and the surveillance footage. MOO

I went back and looked at the 8th Ave Learning Centre Grad photos and yes, it appears they did take them the day of the ceremony. Again, basing this off the scenery and how green everything looks. I originally remembered that Kam was one of a select few who had outdoor photos but that's not the case. They all do! My coworker and I also agreed the butterfly photo was probably taken in May, perhaps even April. She said; "Tristan I truly think that photo was taken shortly before this whole thing began."

https://www.albernivalleynews.com/e...180704110752-01b5343009a04ae8926bf77bfd570f50

Also, I happened upon this little gem. It's Kam's graduation ceremony held on June 21st, 2018 at 8pm. The video quality wavers between good to potato quality atrocious. Also, pardon that it's a Facebook link. Apparently Port Alberni News live streamed it. Check it out. At the 2:53 mark in the video, is that Kam in the white button down shirt and tie? The video gets pixelated but the guy has the same slight stoop in his posture that Kam characteristically has. I'm not 100% but I think it's him. Curious what others think and I apologize for those who don't have Facebook, it won't let me save the video. Ugh... Anyway, there's two links, so I'll post both of them.

Eighth Avenue Learning Centre graduation... - Alberni Valley News

Alberni Valley News

 

[copkid]

I'm just hoping they had a thorough explanation on the video. It was the least they could do at that point for the loved ones of the victims and their own loved ones, honestly, to at least answer the question of what happened and why. If they themselves even knew why.

SBM

What if they express great remorse?
What if they offer an "explanation" ?
What if it is tearful, and begging for forgiveness?

Would their families be privy to this video if it offered an explanation?

Can/will the public, or the RCMP truly believe anything said by two deranged spree killers?

MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

What if they express great remorse?
What if they offer an "explanation" ?
What if it is tearful, and begging for forgiveness?

I think all of those things are entirely possible. They wouldn't be the first or last people in history to commit murder and then regret it. And emotionally disturbed teenagers aren't exactly known for making calm and reasoned decisions. It doesn't change the fact that they killed people, but it could give us insight into what was going on in their heads.

Would their families be privy to this video if it offered an explanation?

I have no idea.

Can/will the public, or the RCMP truly believe anything said by two deranged spree killers?

Their credibility is in question, but I'm sure the police would see how it lines up with the forensic evidence, behavioral analysis, and so on. However, it's valuable for the insight it gives into their mindset.

 

[MistyWaters]

The "pretty consistant picture" I am getting is that KM was a nice guy. Polite, considerate, cared about other people.
It appears(?) KM came from a solid stable family?
He was allowed the drive that nice truck/camper on a cross country adventure, sounds like his parents trusted him with that responsibility? Possibly even insured it for him?
I don't recall any of KMs family making statements other than the brief statement from KMs Dad.

They were both gamers.

BS clearly grew up in a volitile environment.
Divorced parents, step-parent, back and forth to Grandmother, s***ty home life, odd, edgy, talk of violence, etc.

I can't recall the source of the Nazi pics but if it SM or a game site, I feel they might have been an "image" thing. There are many people on SM "pretending" to be someone they are not. I feel BS was desperately seeking attention and negative attention or shock value attention was better than none at all. JMO

Was BS "troubled"? I feel he was. JMO

I don't recall BS's Mom making a statement.
Grandmother spoke with someone about the communication from BS until the 13th or 14th?

BS's great uncle spoke favourably and stated they had a good amount of money with them for their adventure.

However troubled BS was, both he and KM do not appear much different than many young men I know.

The "consistent picture" of two young men, one nice, one odd, heading out in a huge easily identifiable, hard on gas, truck/camper just doesn't seem to fit with two young men heading out on an intentional spree killing adventure, or attempting to live out a video game, it just doesn't make sense to me.
What happened on that trip that made everything change into catastrophe?

We may never know. MOO

Something I think is important to remember is the timeline in relation to when most of the comments about K&B were made. July 19th the truck and camper was found burning. It wasn’t until July 24th when they were named armed and dangerous suspects wanted for three homicides.

In-between, for five days they were missing persons. AS thought they had seen something and were hiding in fear in the bush. Others speculated they were victims of a serial killer, perhaps police hadn’t yet found their bodies. Or maybe they were abducted. Ransom? How could they just disappear?

During those five days when they were possible victims, people were certainly going to say mainly nice things about them because I’m certain everyone hoped for the best and they’d be found alive and well, having escaped from some psycho killer. Looking back to those prior comments, I’m just not so sure they provide an entirely accurate assessment of character.

If there another side of the “nice, ordinary boys” story it would only be the police who heard it while they were investigating their mysterious disappearance. Since July 24th it seems virtually everyone who knew the two have gone silent.

 

[Zella]

Something I think is important to remember is the timeline in relation to when most of the comments about K&B were made. July 19th the truck and camper was found burning. It wasn’t until July 24th when they were named armed and dangerous suspects wanted for three homicides.

In-between, for five days they were missing persons. AS thought they had seen something and were hiding in fear in the bush. Others speculated they were victims of a serial killer, perhaps police hadn’t yet found their bodies. Or maybe they were abducted. Ransom? How could they just disappear?

During those five days when they were possible victims, people are certainly going to say mainly nice things about them because I’m certain everyone hoped for the best and they’d be found alive and well, having escaped from some psycho killer.

If there another side of the “nice, ordinary boys” story it would only be the police who heard it. Since July 24th it seems virtually everyone who knew the two have gone silent.

I don't actually remember seeing comments about them--minus Bryer's dad--from when they were just missing. Just a tentative scan of all the articles I have saved featuring people saying positive things about them, they're all dated after they were suspects, so I don't think this necessarily follows. MOO

 

[copkid]

If there another side of the “nice, ordinary boys” story it would only be the police who heard it. Since July 24th it seems virtually everyone who knew the two have gone silent.

Unbelievable silent IMO.
I am surprised that PA residents have not been approached by MSM hoping for some inside scoop, this was largest Canadian manhunt in history, even the MSM has been completely quiet.
I know it is a TOS violation to discuss SM, gossip and rumour and I do not wish to violate the TOS.

I would, however, like to pose some questions to any members that may live in PA or know people that do.

Has there been any media around town digging for stories?

Locally are rumour and gossip running a muck? No references please, I am just curious.
I have lived in many places comparable in size to PA, and it is very difficult to stop people from talking.

I am surprised by the silence surrounding such a huge news story. JMO MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

SBM

What if they express great remorse?
What if they offer an "explanation" ?
What if it is tearful, and begging for forgiveness?

Would their families be privy to this video if it offered an explanation?

Can/will the public, or the RCMP truly believe anything said by two deranged spree killers?

MOO

Explanations are for wrecking somebody’s vehicle, not coming home on time, or forgetting to take out the garbage.

There is no satisfactory explanation for murdering three entirely innocent people.

They fled from BC to Manitoba in a stolen car to avoid arrest. If remorse was involved it was because they were unable to navigate the Nelson River IMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

IAlso, I happened upon this little gem. It's Kam's graduation ceremony held on June 21st, 2018 at 8pm. The video quality wavers between good to potato quality atrocious. Also, pardon that it's a Facebook link. Apparently Port Alberni News live streamed it. Check it out. At the 2:53 mark in the video, is that Kam in the white button down shirt and tie? The video gets pixelated but the guy has the same slight stoop in his posture that Kam characteristically has. I'm not 100% but I think it's him. Curious what others think and I apologize for those who don't have Facebook, it won't let me save the video. Ugh... Anyway, there's two links, so I'll post both of them.

Eighth Avenue Learning Centre graduation... - Alberni Valley News

Alberni Valley News

Good find! I really have no idea if it's him or not, considering the video has about 20 pixels total LOL. But the guy looks tall, generally resembles Kam, and is wearing the same thing Kam was wearing minus the robe, so it's definitely possible.

 

[MistyWaters]

Unbelievable silent IMO.
I am surprised that PA residents have not been approached by MSM hoping for some inside scoop, this was largest Canadian manhunt in history, even the MSM has been completely quiet.
I know it is a TOS violation to discuss SM, gossip and rumour and I do not wish to violate the TOS.

I would, however, like to pose some questions to any members that may live in PA or know people that do.

Has there been any media around town digging for stories?

Locally are rumour and gossip running a muck? No references please, I am just curious.
I have lived in many places comparable in size to PA, and it is very difficult to stop people from talking.

I am surprised by the silence surrounding such a huge news story. JMO MOO

My opinion only, people have clammed up out of respect for the immense grief of families of the accused and in consideration for victims families as well. The reporting has already been heavily focused on K&B, far greater than if they’d been arrested soon after the fact in B.C. The media seeking more opinions or stories is not helpful because the accused are now dead. Hopefully police will soon give us the facts of the investigation and are able to provide some additional insight of possible motive. It won’t bring anyone back but it may be helpful in preventing another such tragedy from occurring.

 

[copkid]

Explanations are for wrecking somebody’s vehicle, not coming home on time, or forgetting to take out the garbage.

There is no satisfactory explanation for murdering three entirely innocent people.

They fled from BC to Manitoba in a stolen car to avoid arrest. If remorse was involved it was because they were unable to navigate the Nelson River IMO.

I did place "explanation" in quotations because I do agree with you, there is NO explanation for killing three random strangers.
I should have said...What if they explain the chain of events that led to this happening? It was never intentional?
Would they be believed?
Or will many always believe they intentionally headed out on a killing spree?

I highly doubt the public will ever see or hear their last words, and debatable questions will likely linger.

JMO