Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #19

[FactFinder3000]

But I still don't understand though if it was planned or partially planned why they didn't think things through. Like I said above, why did they burn their truck. The one thing linking them to one of the victims. That baffles me. Because honestly no one or very few would have even thought two teens would be suspects. They could have washed their truck, dispose of their clothing, and once they were done they could have ditched the weapons anywhere. I just feel like something is missing.

I agree there's something missing. I'm hopeful it may become clear when the RCMP release their statement.

It seems most likely that they somehow became convinced that they were not going to get away with the double murder. It's very possible there was some sort of contact with the RCMP. Either the RCMP phoned Kam, or they heard from family that the RCMP wanted to talk to them. The murders occurred early on July 15th, their truck was found burning on the 19th. That means that police had been working the case for 4 days by then. They would do everything they could to identify vehicles seen in the area, and they would want to talk to the owners of those vehicles. (And I might add, it has never been clear to me whether Kam owned the vehicle or his parents did.)

Anyway, I think that's one plausible scenario: that they found out police wanted to talk to them and they panicked.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just speaking for myself but please don't confuse my sympathy for what KM and BS could have become to thinking it's sympathy for them personally. They are suspects in 3 murders and I have no sympathy for them. My sympathy is for the victims in this senseless crime.

I feel sad looking at BS's pic in his suit though. I'm sad thinking that at one time, KM and BS had a lot going for themselves but didn't appreciate it. The fact they took an evil route out lies squarely with them.

What’s different about this case - the two were first considered missing and AS chose to tell his story in the media, more photos of B were released than is typical and as events unfolded, those photos have somewhat overshadowed photos of the victims. If we were privy to a photo album of any criminal, there's going to be many that make them appear harmless and nice looking because at the time they indeed were.

If L&Cs family chose to release their graduation photos I’d think we’d be saying what a sad, horrible tragedy they were murdered, they had their entire life ahead of them. But releasing photos to the general public isn’t helpful to the victim’s families. They’ve lost somebody who was present in their lives, not just a face in a photo.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The OPP now has a new series on murderers who kill multiple people and how they link the crime scenes called "OPP Investigative Lens: Serial Instinct". The first episode in the series is "Catching Serial Killer Dellen Millard". It's under 10 minutes and talks a bit about how police did their work, and comments that murderers go on to get sloppier at later kills as they get convinced they can't be caught.

I wonder if KM and BS felt they could get away with anything after the slow start to the LF and CD investigation. Perhaps they burned the truck to be more brazen, and not to hide their tracks? They were actually trying to get attention?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I agree there's something missing. I'm hopeful it may become clear when the RCMP release their statement.

It seems most likely that they somehow became convinced that they were not going to get away with the double murder. It's very possible there was some sort of contact with the RCMP. Either the RCMP phoned Kam, or they heard from family that the RCMP wanted to talk to them. The murders occurred early on July 15th, their truck was found burning on the 19th. That means that police had been working the case for 4 days by then. They would do everything they could to identify vehicles seen in the area, and they would want to talk to the owners of those vehicles. (And I might add, it has never been clear to me whether Kam owned the vehicle or his parents did.)

Anyway, I think that's one plausible scenario: that they found out police wanted to talk to them and they panicked.

I know we've speculated that they got freaked out by the billboards asking for dashcam footage.

This may be totally out there, but what if they confessed to someone they knew? It's likely they were in intermittent contact with people between the two sets of murders. I've speculated that had they just gone home after the first two murders, they would be the type of criminals to be caught within a week because they would probably compulsively confess what they had done to people they knew. And if they had confessed, the RCMP would tell that person to keep quiet, considering how much they kept guarded about the investigation.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree there's something missing. I'm hopeful it may become clear when the RCMP release their statement.

It seems most likely that they somehow became convinced that they were not going to get away with the double murder. It's very possible there was some sort of contact with the RCMP. Either the RCMP phoned Kam, or they heard from family that the RCMP wanted to talk to them. The murders occurred early on July 15th, their truck was found burning on the 19th. That means that police had been working the case for 4 days by then. They would do everything they could to identify vehicles seen in the area, and they would want to talk to the owners of those vehicles. (And I might add, it has never been clear to me whether Kam owned the vehicle or his parents did.)

Anyway, I think that's one plausible scenario: that they found out police wanted to talk to them and they panicked.

Possible. If police already knew the truck and camper was in the same general area as the van the night of the 14th through gas station CCTV, campground registration, etc but upon inquiry with the Port Alberni owner it was revealed one of the two occupants were claiming they’d already arrived in Whitehorse, that would certainly motivate police to want to talk to B&K.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know we've speculated that they got freaked out by the billboards asking for dashcam footage.

This may be totally out there, but what if they confessed to someone they knew? It's likely they were in intermittent contact with people between the two sets of murders. I've speculated that had they just gone home after the first two murders, they would be the type of criminals to be caught within a week because they would probably compulsively confess what they had done to people they knew. And if they had confessed, the RCMP would tell that person to keep quiet, considering how much they kept guarded about the investigation.

If they’d confessed to somebody earlier, I really doubt police would’ve waited for a tip from Meadow Lake to announce on July 24th the two were no longer considered missing, instead armed and dangerous fugitives and suspects in three murders. That’s assuming police were informed of any such confessions.

 

[Moriarty]

If they’d confessed to somebody earlier, I really doubt police would’ve waited for a tip from Meadow Lake to announce on July 24th the two were no longer considered missing, instead armed and dangerous fugitives and suspects in three murders. That’s assuming police were informed of any such confessions.

I'm not so sure...it could have been a confession along the lines of, "Hey Tyler, me and Bryer did some bad !" that is inconclusive but incriminating.

I really hope it isn't the case because it would mean games were played with possible further lives on the line, but I have wondered if the whole "two missing teens" bulletin by the RCMP was to flush them out and not name them as suspects from the get-go even though they were. As far as we know, there was no SAR team sent to the area of the burned camper and no real search conducted like we've seen in other missing persons cases.

As soon as that tip came in from Meadow Lake, the RCMP might have thought, too late, these guys are running across the country, and it's time to publicly call them suspects.

Speculation of course.

 

[NJSleuth91]

If they’d confessed to somebody earlier, I really doubt police would’ve waited for a tip from Meadow Lake to announce on July 24th the two were no longer considered missing, instead armed and dangerous fugitives and suspects in three murders. That’s assuming police were informed of any such confessions.

Not if the person didn't go to the police right away. Maybe they disliked or were afraid of police (if you get my drift). Or, if it was one of their friends, it's very common in these cases for teenagers not to go to the police right away. Like "Do I really want to get them in trouble? What if it's all a big misunderstanding?" Plus it could have been a vague confession as Moriarty said.

But from Kam and Bryer's perspective, if they confessed, even if the person didn't go to the police yet, it was only a matter of time before they did and they had to get away fast.

I'm not so sure...it could have been a confession along the lines of, "Hey Tyler, me and Bryer did some bad ****!" that is inconclusive but incriminating.

I really hope it isn't the case because it would mean games were played with possible further lives on the line, but I have wondered if the whole "two missing teens" bulletin by the RCMP was to flush them out and not name them as suspects from the get-go even though they were. As far as we know, there was no SAR team sent to the area of the burned camper and no real search conducted like we've seen in other missing persons cases.

As soon as that tip came in from Meadow Lake, the RCMP might have thought, too late, these guys are running across the country, and it's time to publicly call them suspects.

Speculation of course.

I didn't mention this before, but someone posted an RCMP bulletin a while ago from when they were missing, and I found the wording very interesting. It said something like, "Kam or Bryer should go to the police and let them know you're okay." The use of the word "or" instead of "and" indicates to me, that they were saying "you guys know you can rat each other out, right?" And in most cases that probably would have been exactly what happened, but I think the police underestimated the bond these two had.

 

[Moriarty]

I didn't mention this before, but someone posted an RCMP bulletin a while ago from when they were missing, and I found the wording very interesting. It said something like, "Kam or Bryer should go to the police and let them know you're okay." The use of the word "or" instead of "and" indicates to me, that they were saying "you guys know you can rat each other out, right?" And in most cases that probably would have been exactly what happened, but I think the police underestimated the bond these two had.

I don't think I ever saw the original news release from BC RCMP you mention, but here it is for anyone interested: RCMP in British Columbia - Update - Police seek public assistance in Dease Lake investigation

The language is interesting in this release, especially this part (BBM):

"Kam and Bryer have periodically connected with family and friends over the past week and it is possible that they are now in area without cell coverage..."

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't think I ever saw the original news release from BC RCMP you mention, but here it is for anyone interested: RCMP in British Columbia - Update - Police seek public assistance in Dease Lake investigation

The language is interesting in this release, especially this part (BBM):

"Kam and Bryer have periodically connected with family and friends over the past week and it is possible that they are now in area without cell coverage..."

If the hypothetical person they hypothetically confessed to had gone to the police at that point, that could have been like a "we know about your confession" thing. Although, would it be beneficial to the police to hint at that information? Also what would be probable cause to charge them or name them as suspects? Would a confession, especially a vague one, be enough?

Also that definitely sounds like they were talking to their family and friends periodically even between the two sets of murders.

 

[Jan424]

I know we've speculated that they got freaked out by the billboards asking for dashcam footage.

This may be totally out there, but what if they confessed to someone they knew? It's likely they were in intermittent contact with people between the two sets of murders. I've speculated that had they just gone home after the first two murders, they would be the type of criminals to be caught within a week because they would probably compulsively confess what they had done to people they knew. And if they had confessed, the RCMP would tell that person to keep quiet, considering how much they kept guarded about the investigation.

But if they were in intermittent contact with people, wouldn’t the RCMP be able to track their location thru phones etc?

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Does anyone know where it was revealed of Leonard's cause of death? I've read that his cause of death wasn't revealed out of the respect of his family. But some are saying he has been shot.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But if they were in intermittent contact with people, wouldn’t the RCMP be able to track their location thru phones etc?

I don't think they were in contact after the 19th. And I don't think the RCMP suspected them or anyone they may have hypothetically confessed to went to the police until after the 19th.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Does anyone know where it was revealed of Leonard's cause of death? I've read that his cause of death wasn't revealed out of the respect of his family. But some are saying he has been shot.

One Australian media source reported he was shot. It is unconfirmed.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don't think I ever saw the original news release from BC RCMP you mention, but here it is for anyone interested: RCMP in British Columbia - Update - Police seek public assistance in Dease Lake investigation

The language is interesting in this release, especially this part (BBM):

"Kam and Bryer have periodically connected with family and friends over the past week and it is possible that they are now in area without cell coverage..."

Only B&K knew the stories they told “family and friends” so it must’ve been a shocker for the RCMP to state they were already aware of communications prior to the missing persons announcement.

“A better understanding as to where they might be or their plans” I think refers to the various stories they told others including their lie about their arrival at Whitehorse and it being disappointing, not what they expected. At that point B&K might’ve suspected their alibi for the night of July 14th was falling apart.

"Kam and Bryer have periodically connected with family and friends over the past week and it is possible that they are now in area without cell coverage", says Dawn Roberts, BC RCMP Communications. "However, we have found their vehicle and have not been able to locate either of them at this time. We are asking for Kam or Bryer to connect with police right away and let us know you are okay. Or we ask that anyone who may have spoken to or seen them over the last few days to call police so we can get a better understanding as to where they might be or their plans."

 

[10ofRods]

If their intent, originally, was suicide-by-cop, it is certainly possible that when that didn't happen right after the first murders, they realized their plan had variables beyond their control.

So they set the truck on fire. Of course, suicide-by-cop is an entirely different method that shooting oneself, so they may have continued to hope that there'd be a big confrontation, Dog Day Afternoon style showdown, or Butch Cassidy and Sundance, or whatever more recent movie/meme made them think that was a cool way to die together. "Ef'fin police can't even get THAT right!" (Meaning, "killing us").

After finding out just how screwed they were, living in the woods of Manitoba, being hungry and cold and wet and bug-eaten. they adjusted their plan.

We'll never know to what degree this plan was conscious and explicit.

 

[sandbar]

That is interesting, and it could perhaps help narrow down the possible time of death.

The actual press release has some sentences between the ones you quoted above which I think sort of elides some time. Given this press release and what we already know timeline-wise, the infrared capable plane was there either 24-hours or 48-hours after the Rav4 was found burning on the evening of July 22. They could have gotten 8 kms away in that time. Were they dead within that period? Hopefully more details will emerge with a final report with a more concrete timeline.

Sorry, I'm not sure which post you're replying to, but I wonder: what of they hid under the aluminum boat when they heard the plane. Would that block their heat signature or whatever?

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorry, I'm not sure which post you're replying to, but I wonder: what of they hid under the aluminum boat when they heard the plane. Would that block their heat signature or whatever?

Hiding like cowards. If suicide by cop had ever been considered as a last resort, by the time they hid for days in the bush, possibly hoping the RCMP would just give up and go away, they were bug-bitten, hungry, damp, cold and ultimately defeated, cornered by the Nelson River with no means of escape ....perhaps any yearn for excitement and drama had passed.

 

[sandbar]

But I still don't understand though if it was planned or partially planned why they didn't think things through. Like I said above, why did they burn their truck. The one thing linking them to one of the victims. That baffles me. Because honestly no one or very few would have even thought two teens would be suspects. They could have washed their truck, dispose of their clothing, and once they were done they could have ditched the weapons anywhere. I just feel like something is missing.

I've always thought of them locked into their own reality, much like being in a game, where there is only "now", and "now", and "now"...

Or,

Teenagers aren't generally known for their organizational skills, because there is only "now", and "now", and "now"...

 

[sandbar]

Not meaning to be contrary here and I don't mean to offend, but I genuinely don't understand the sympathy that the suspects are garnering here at all. I feel sadness for their victims, not for BS or KM.I don't feel sad for BS looking at the pics of him in his suit because not too long after that pic was taken he took the lives of three people and destroyed their families. Even if they didn't kill LF and CD (I think they did) they killed LD, who had a wife, two sons around the same age as the killers, and extended family that needed and loved him.

They had no reason to go out an murder three innocent people, robbery gone wrong or not. I can't imagine what their angle was, I hope it'll come out in the police report, but these two were not "good kids" in any way and imo, they're both equally responsible for what happened. Imo, these two fed off each other and encouraged one another in whatever dark, disturbing fantasies they had, and them knowing/befriending one another, their final acts of violence against innocent people was the culmination of a perfect storm that brewed for years.

They hung with each other for years, they knew what the other was about. I still feel that KM was more of the leader than BS who we know had a very dark quality about him. Obviously it was way, way beyond trying to be edgy. Sure there's edgy, but BS was obviously a million light years past edgy when he and his buddy went out and killed three people.

Others have said that they distanced themselves from BS because they found his words and his behaviour disturbing - that would be the normal thing to do. KM had to have shared at least some of those qualities, otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to associate with BS, and he certainly wouldn't have gone and brought two firearms on an extended road trip with him.

The presence of two guns found with the bodies indicates to me that this was at least partially planned. Canadians generally don't go on road trips or camping armed, and it wasn't hunting season at the time of the murders. If they were concerned about wildlife, they could have purchased some bear spray brought along some noise makers but the fact that they had two weapons with them tells me concerns about wildlife attacks weren't on their minds whatsoever. It would even be a stretch if they brought one gun for protection, but the fact is that they had two - so imo, they had something loosely planned at the very least. If they were so sad, depressed, hard-done-by and whatever, and on a suicide mission as AS suggested, then why didn't they simply drive into the wilderness and off themselves instead of killing three others?

I feel a sadness because of what K&B --and others in the States right around that time-- did, and the questions those actions demand we ask about WTF is happening in our world.