Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[srper2]

I recall at least one headline because I replied to it: "NSW police to help investigate death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada."

The paper later modified the headline, probably at request of police. It was recorded in this post: CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & g/f Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019

The point I was making is that the media will often try to add drama to an exciting story, whether they do it through naivety or cynicism, I can't say.

Some media outlets (such as the Guardian) did report NSW police were going to assist the family: NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada Other reports were not quite correct, assuming the officers were going to assist with the investigation: Son of NSW Police chief inspector and girlfriend found dead in Canada

 

[Satchie]

Some media outlets (such as the Guardian) did report NSW police were going to assist the family: NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

Yes, IMO The Guardian is a great news source.

 

[Jan424]

As the man from Meadow Lake didn’t speak to the media until after the two were publicly identified as suspects, how can it be proven his memory is accurate about the names they gave to him? That short interaction seemed to grow longer and more remarkable as time went on. -

“Two younger males were observed outside of a Toyota RAV-4,” the release said. “The resident assisted the pair in getting unstuck, and they continued on their way after a short, unremarkable interaction.”..”

Exactly.... I have always questioned this as well.

 

[Jan424]

It's a hardware store, of course it had cameras. It's common sense.

Yes but it seemed like K&B were sorely lacking in the common sense department... JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

It's a hardware store, of course it had cameras. It's common sense.

The clerk at the Meadow Lake Co-op reportedly called in a tip because she recognized the two from the missing persons poster. Virtually every gas station has CCTV as well but that wouldn’t prevent them from filling the RAV4 with fuel. In fact there’s a photo of the RAV4 also from Meadow Lake, when the RCMP first connected them with driving the stolen car as well.

Maybe they didn’t expect anyone would ever suspect they’d left the Province of BC especially if it appeared they were murdered by a serial killer or hiding in fear in the bush after witnessing a brutal crime? Who knows, but at the age of 18 and 19 the two were not as brilliantly skilled in evading police as they might’ve thought they were. IMO

 

[Grouper]

Exactly.... I have always questioned this as well.

I mean, if we’re going to be questioning the memory of a man’s experience two days after the fact, then we should also question the experiences/recollections of people who spoke negatively about Bryer months or years after the fact... right?

Surely, if we cannot trust the words of a man two days out from an event, then we certainly cannot trust the word of a girl seven years later, or the word of an anonymous source on the internet several months later. Just thought I’d point this out.

IMO, Tommy gave a solid account of his encounter. He did not change the details (except when coming forth with the sleeping bag detail, which was originally omitted from his statements to the media, probably because it was not relevant at the time).

The only thing that he talked about in variance was his feelings about the event, and feelings change. He kept his facts straight.

I consider him to be a credible and believable witness. And he seemed very honest in his assertions. But JMO! JMO!

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I mean, if we’re going to be questioning the memory of a man’s experience two days after the fact, then we should also question the experiences/recollections of people who spoke negatively about Bryer months or years after the fact... right?

Surely, if we cannot trust the words of a man two days out from an event, then we certainly cannot trust the word of a girl seven years later, or the word of an anonymous source on the internet several months later. Just thought I’d point this out.

IMO, Tommy gave a solid account of his encounter. I consider him to be a credible and believable witness. And he seemed very honest in his assertions. But JMO! JMO!

I second this, and every time he was interviewed his story didn't change.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Yes but it seemed like K&B were sorely lacking in the common sense department... JMO

That or at that point they just didn't really care with other stuff on their mind.

 

[Jan424]

I think if Kam kept up with friendly appearances and manners as described he might think he's outsmarting everyone and relish in doing so even.
No one knows if his niceness was genuine or an act.

SBM
Great point! We have no idea if any of it was genuine.

 

[Jan424]

I mean, if we’re going to be questioning the memory of a man’s experience two days after the fact, then we should also question the experiences/recollections of people who spoke negatively about Bryer months or years after the fact... right?

Surely, if we cannot trust the words of a man two days out from an event, then we certainly cannot trust the word of a girl seven years later, or the word of an anonymous source on the internet several months later. Just thought I’d point this out.

IMO, Tommy gave a solid account of his encounter. He did not change the details (except when coming forth with the sleeping bag detail, which was originally omitted from his statements to the media, probably because it was not relevant at the time).

The only thing that he talked about in variance was his feelings about the event, and feelings change. He kept his facts straight.

I consider him to be a credible and believable witness. And he seemed very honest in his assertions. But JMO! JMO!

Thanks for pointing all this this out. I stand by my opinion. You are free to yours as I am to mine.

 

[Grouper]

SBM
Great point! We have no idea if any of it was genuine.

I find it hard to believe that he fooled every last person in his life into believing he was “good”. That would be a truly incredible feat.

I keep thinking back to the quote in this article that a friend offered:

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

“Whenever you’d talk to him, you’d kind of get sucked into conversation and you’d almost feel at home speaking to him,” Mr. Findlay said.

Saying talking to him felt like being at home. That’s a powerful statement. And offering someone that sense of comfort, I imagine that is hard to fake. IMO.

 

[Jan424]

DBM

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes but it seemed like K&B were sorely lacking in the common sense department... JMO

I agree. Had they even an ounce of common sense, they’d have contacted the police voluntarily at the onset rather than fleeing.

While the hunt created a whole lot of drama, other than creating fear for the people living in the Gillam area, and heartbreak and devastation to their own families, in the end it accomplished nothing.

 

[Jan424]

I find it hard to believe that he fooled every last person in his life into believing he was “good”. That would be a truly incredible feat.

I keep thinking back to the quote in this article that a friend offered:

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

“Whenever you’d talk to him, you’d kind of get sucked into conversation and you’d almost feel at home speaking to him,” Mr. Findlay said.

Saying talking to him felt like being at home. That’s a powerful statement. And offering someone that sense of comfort, I imagine that is hard to fake. IMO.

As I said we have no idea. We are here to speculate and that’s what I’m doing. We know next to nothing about Kam. I’d never considered that possibility until now. I actually like to hear what others have to say and consider their thoughts rather than just the ones I put forth. MOO

 

[Jan424]

That or at that point they just didn't really care with other stuff on their mind.

Possible.

 

[MistyWaters]

I find it hard to believe that he fooled every last person in his life into believing he was “good”. That would be a truly incredible feat.

I keep thinking back to the quote in this article that a friend offered:

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

“Whenever you’d talk to him, you’d kind of get sucked into conversation and you’d almost feel at home speaking to him,” Mr. Findlay said.

Saying talking to him felt like being at home. That’s a powerful statement. And offering someone that sense of comfort, I imagine that is hard to fake. IMO.

I’m not quite sure what this is to prove? It’s not as if people who commit murder are always 100% downright mean and bad so that everyone around them is living in a constant state of fear. If you’ve followed any murder trials, very seldom is that so.

In fact it’s common for family member and friends to have no idea, to be absolutely shocked, sometimes to the point of totally denying the truth in the face of concrete proof beyond conviction of guilt.

If opinions of friends and relatives told the story, we wouldn’t require police to conduct murder investigations or collect evidence.

 

[Grouper]

As I said we have no idea. We are here to speculate and that’s what I’m doing. We know next to nothing about Kam. I’d never considered that possibility until now. I actually like to hear what others have to say and consider their thoughts rather than just the ones I put forth. MOO

Of course. I wouldn’t say anything other than that we are all knee-deep in speculation. I also am interested in the views of others, and in my responses I try to balance them. Maybe I play devils advocate here but it’s never to directly attack anyone. That’s not the name of my game, and I apologize if I came across that way.

In my previous post I was just pointing out that Kam made others feel at ease in his presence. I think that’s not easy to do even if you are a so-called “good person” in general.

That quote has really stayed with me.

MOO. I’m a cow.

 

[Seattle1]

I think the Australian media initially implied the Aussie police were going over to solve the crime, but that was just a nationalistic media narrative.

I couldn't disagree more. The NSW spokesperson was very clear that two detectives were accompanying Steve Fowler and his family to act as their liaisons, purely to assist them in their grief.

NSW Police assistant commissioner Mark Jones told reporters in Sydney on Saturday that two homicide detectives would act in a liaison-type role.

“The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) are an outstanding organisation, we have the utmost confidence in their capacity and capability to run this investigation but our commissioner has made a great decision to send over two officers ... purely to assist the families,” he said.

“Just breaking down some of the communication and just really keeping us appraised and them appraised of what’s going on.”

Fowler’s father, Stephen, chief inspector for Sydney’s north-west Hills district, and other family members have flown to Canada “to be with our boy and to bring him home”.

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

 

[zinny77]

IMO, Tommy gave a solid account of his encounter. He did not change the details (except when coming forth with the sleeping bag detail, which was originally omitted from his statements to the media, probably because it was not relevant

He went from "they were nice kids, something else must have happened, I can't see them commiting the crime, they were nice and polite" to "Bryer looked like a psycho, I am sure that he had a gun in his trousers and Kam acted like a leader". Every time he said the story, he made his role more important and the story more dramatic. I wouldn't call that side of his story credible. JMO

What has been consistent is that Kam and Bryer did nothing to him but being polite. They didn't threaten him or hurt him.

He can't just keep on putting thoughts in their heads and intentions in their heart. Especially after he admitted that he changed his idea of the encounter after reading about them. JMO

 

[Grouper]

He went from they were nice kids, something else must have happened, I can't see them commiting the crime, they were nice and polite to Bryer lookedblike a psycho, I am sure that he had a gun in his trousers and Kam acted like a leader. Every time he said the story, he made his role more imprtant and the story more dramatic. I wouldn't call tgat side of his recollection credible. JMO

Whar has been consistent is that Kam and Bryer did nothing to him but being polite.

He can't just jeep on putting thoight in their heads and intentions in their heart. JMO

Can you share some articles to support that Tommy said those things? I don’t remember reading half of that.

Here’s an article from the National Post, which I consider a credible source:

‘My big heart could have got me killed’: Albertan unknowingly helped B.C. fugitives

CBC article:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5229940

Vice:

BC Murder Suspects Were Pulled Over and Released Just Before Manhunt Began

Haven’t found one where he calls them anything other than “nice”, “nervous”, etc.

Please correct me if I’m wrong. But I couldn’t find anything about Bryer having a gun in his pants?

EDIT: unless you’re talking about the post on the FB group, and I think he was just giving out his own opinions re: why they may have been acting nervous. The psycho look comment, to me, sounds like an observation he made, which is fine, but not a fact (which I think was the point of your post?? Sorry if I’m getting it wrong here)

My whole point in all this is that, Bryer and Kam acted politely (if anxiously), joked around with him, and drove off after shaking his hand and giving their names. Those facts have never changed in his story and that, to me, makes a credible witness.

MOOOOOOOO