Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[LoisLane]

By now I’d bet police have collected other CCTV footage from other locations from BC to Manitoba in completing the timeline including campgrounds, stores or restaurants and certainly gas stations where the two were not recognized at the time.

I imagine they have a lot.

 

[zinny77]

I very much suspect that report will do exactly that, because it goes to the matter of the level of depravity and viciousness of these murders. I very much doubt the RCMP , or the British Columbian Coroners report will be short and simply state 'dead'.

It just doesn't happen that way.

I would be the most surprised I have ever been if the report includes the lenght or level of pain of the victims death or include gory details. Detailing that anywhere publicly would be disrespectful to the victims families and I am sure that RCMP wouldn't do that. JMO, obviously

 

[Grouper]

I very much suspect that report will do exactly that, because it goes to the matter of the level of depravity and viciousness of these murders. I very much doubt the RCMP , or the British Columbian Coroners report will be short and simply state 'dead'.

It just doesn't happen that way.

JMO: the RCMP report will likely follow this format:

https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/pub...forth_shootings_findings_of_investigation.pdf

JMO: it would be disrespectful and traumatic to all five families to release a report with graphic descriptions of death. The RCMP would not put themselves and their credibility on the line in such a way.

 

[zinny77]

But you would agree that it was in the vicinity of 'gunshot violence' , as quoted by the RCMP? > meaning, that a gun of some caliber was involved... ?? or.. you have other information that negates the whole idea of 'gunshot". ? The RCMP didn't detail the method used to murder Lucas Fowler, or Chynna Deese. That may turn out to be quite complex, but the RCMP was definite that in the case of Prof Dyck, the term used was 'gunshot violence'. .

I thought that they refused to share Leonard Dyck's cause of death at the family request?

 

[Grouper]

But you would agree that it was in the vicinity of 'gunshot violence' , as quoted by the RCMP? > meaning, that a gun of some caliber was involved... ?? or.. you have other information that negates the whole idea of 'gunshot". ? The RCMP didn't detail the method used to murder Lucas Fowler, or Chynna Deese. That may turn out to be quite complex, but the RCMP was definite that in the case of Prof Dyck, the term used was 'gunshot violence'. .

All I said was the type of weapon (firearm) has not been confirmed by RCMP. All we know is that Chynna and Lucas were shot, and Bryer and Kam died by suicide by gunfire. Those are the only facts we have available to us at this time. No other specifics.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I thought that they refused to share Leonard Dyck's cause of death at the family request?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

RCMP reports would never go into graphic detail about death. IMO it’s unnecessary to go into it here, either.

Have you noticed how many trials are tweeted in real time and all the gory details published? It's shocking! I'm trying to figure out when this started as they never used to do this so I wondered what changed?

All the horrifying details are out there in the public (as they would be in court records I suppose). They even do it for high profile cases and the details/crimes are always way worse than what they sounds like when first published in MSM.

Had this gone to trial, the gory, horrific details would be published. I think RCMP might have protocols and those details probably aren't necessarily documented in a case like this but I'm pretty sure they and the medical examiner know EXACTLY what went down.

Of course, some of us want to know as well as it pieces together the events and might answer questions we have. All MOO

 

[Trooper]

JMO: the RCMP report will likely follow this format:

https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/pub...forth_shootings_findings_of_investigation.pdf

JMO: it would be disrespectful and traumatic to all five families to release a report with graphic descriptions of death. The RCMP would not put themselves and their credibility on the line in such a way.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/b...8/lisa_dudley_inquest_verdictwithcomments.pdf


Luckily, British Columbia makes Coroners reports public, and available on line, I did not know that there were provinces in Canada that does not publish Coroners reports. So that was new information for today.

This is one I particularly chose because the subject is murder, and the Coroner, as coroners do all over the word, describes and delineates the injuries and manner of death of the victim of a homicide , clinically and accurately.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is a website to discuss and try to understand crimes. Understanding the suspects is a big part of it. Pretending that they were just horrible people won't help. It's not about loving them. It's about understanding how who they were impacted on what they did. You are entitled to see them and everything they did as negatively as you want, we are entitled not to. JMO

If the victims’ families do not ever expect to truly understand, given they’re much closer to the investigation that the general public, it’s highly likely we won’t either.

“Stetson said the most difficult thing for his wider family is trying to understand why such nice people were allegedly killed in such a brutal way.

"It is just hard to accept that such good people can be killed for whatever reason," Stetson said.

"We do not know why and more and more may be discovered but I don't think we will ever truly know why."...”
Father Accused Of Seeking 'Fame' From Son's Alleged Murder Spree

 

[Grouper]

My thoughts exactly.

Have you noticed how many trials are tweeted in real time and all the gory details published? It's shocking! I'm trying to figure out when this started as they never used to do this so I wondered what changed?

All the horrifying details are out there in the public (as they would be in court records I suppose). They even do it for high profile cases and the details/crimes are always way worse than what they sounds like when first published in MSM.

Had this gone to trial, the gory, horrific details would be published. I think RCMP might have protocols and those details probably aren't necessarily documented in a case like this but I'm pretty sure they and the medical examiner know EXACTLY what went down.

Of course, some of us want to know as well as it pieces together the events and might answer questions we have. All MOO

Yeah I’m sure the coroner has the details.

I posted a link to the Toronto Police Report on the Danforth shootings and believe the RCMP report will be no different in terms of graphic content.

The media does publish details that are considered graphic (the news stories on the Yonge-Finch van attack for example, were brutal), but RCMP will not. Those details aren’t relevant to the case itself.

I guess JMO.

 

[Trooper]

My thoughts exactly.

The manner of death is different to the cause of death. The RCMP was referring to the manner of Prof. Dycks death in that it was a matter of 'gunshot violence.'

What is known is his death was so awful his family do not want it published and that is their valid prerogative.

That may not have been the cause of his eventual death. However, his murder had 'gunshot violence' involved in it. This is what the RCMP said. This is how it is. It is hardly conducive to rational discussion if these things are not faced and dealt with.

No one is stopping anyone from feeling terribly sorry for Kam and Bry, how hard done by they were, how no one appreciated them, how awful mum and dad were, how mean Walmart was to them, and so on.. no one is saying they are horrible , reprehensible, repulsive, however, it is fair to say that what they DID is all those things and more.

 

[zinny77]

The manner of death is different to the cause of death. The RCMP was referring to the manner of Prof. Dycks death in that it was a matter of 'gunshot violence.'

What is known is his death was so awful his family do not want it published and that is their valid prerogative.

That may not have been the cause of his eventual death. However, his murder had 'gunshot violence' involved in it. This is what the RCMP said. This is how it is. It is hardly conducive to rational discussion if these things are not faced and dealt with.

No one is stopping anyone from feeling terribly sorry for Kam and Bry, how hard done by they were, how no one appreciated them, how awful mum and dad were, how mean Walmart was to them, and so on.. no one is saying they are horrible , reprehensible, repulsive, however, it is fair to say that what they DID is all those things and more.

Can you share the MSM for the cause of death of Leonard Dyck please?

 

[MistyWaters]

“To Deese, the fact that his sister who "never had conflict and never got angry" could be shot dead makes no sense.

It makes even less sense that it happened to such an experienced traveller in an isolated Canadian community where residents, before the events of this summer, might not even have locked their doors.

"I mean if Lucas and Chynna died hiking Mount Everest, that seems more likely. That seems like something that they would do in their lifetime. But to think that somebody did this," he said.

You can almost hear him shake his head over the phone.

"It's such a pointless crime."
Chynna Deese's brother asks 'entire country of Canada' to help bring suspects in as family mourns

 

[Grouper]

The manner of death is different to the cause of death. The RCMP was referring to the manner of Prof. Dycks death in that it was a matter of 'gunshot violence.'

What is known is his death was so awful his family do not want it published and that is their valid prerogative.

That may not have been the cause of his eventual death. However, his murder had 'gunshot violence' involved in it. This is what the RCMP said. This is how it is. It is hardly conducive to rational discussion if these things are not faced and dealt with.

No one is stopping anyone from feeling terribly sorry for Kam and Bry, how hard done by they were, how no one appreciated them, how awful mum and dad were, how mean Walmart was to them, and so on.. no one is saying they are horrible , reprehensible, repulsive, however, it is fair to say that what they DID is all those things and more.

I think this is more a matter of opinion. I haven’t seen anyone on here explicitly stating they feel sorry for anyone.

Also, posts detailing graphic imagery on here have been removed, so I think that speaks for itself.

We can all speak our minds here as long as we abide by TOS and remain calm and respectful. JMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Oh, absolutely.

They could have been wonderful people, lovely, sweet, gentle, and could still be somehow proven to have committed these crimes. I can’t deny anything at this point (although I do believe the story is more complex than what we know).

I guess when I post on here, it’s less of a “they were great guys so they didn’t do it!” And more of:

People want to paint them with one sweeping brush. That they were these depraved individuals lusting for a kill. IMO it almost looks like people take pleasure in hating them (JMO and not targeting anyone on this thread specifically, just generally).

People as a whole are way more intricately designed. Without making a whole big deal again I just want to say I’m offering an alternative perspective to the Bad Boy image the media has built up of them.

They didn’t seem all bad (or all good) to me. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that because they are suspects, they are also incapable of really being the people that their loved ones knew.

All JMO.

Exactly. It's entirely possible they really were nice, kind, good people at one point. Certainly a lot of people who knew them believe so, even to this day. And it's entirely possible they changed. It happens. People can go down the wrong path way more quickly than most people think. But that doesn't negate the positive accounts of them. It doesn't mean they were secretly evil the whole time and just tricking people into thinking they were good. They acted in one way and then they acted in another way.

Human beings are a highly imperfect and stochastic system full of design flaws, and are contradictory and inconsistent all the time. Not to be all transcendentalist about it, and I've said this a million times already about this case, but we all contain multitudes.

 

[LoisLane]

If BS or KM purchased ammo do they need to present the PAL license? If they made such a purchase while on the run like in Meadow Lake for example, would the PAL have been flagged in the system and would the seller be able to have access to very recent “flagged” license holders?

 

[MistyWaters]

According to the RCMP it was 'gunshot violence' that killed Prof Dyck. I assume a rifle, as handguns are not as common for young men in Canada as they are south of the border, but I am just as happy to label it as handguns, no problem. No worries, either way. Rifle made more sense in that it would have been , perhaps , something Kam's father had around the house... I don't think they themselves ever bought any weaponry. No one has seen or said that..

I don’t recall police releasing the exact cause of Prof Dyck’s death although his sister referred to it as “violently”.

“The way that he died — violently and murdered in cold blood — makes it very difficult to process any thoughts at this moment,” Friesen said.”
Family of B.C. murder victim remembers Leonard Dyck as ‘gentle soul,’ family man

 

[Grouper]

If BS or KM purchased ammo do they need to present the PAL license? If they made such a purchase while on the run like in Meadow Lake for example, would the PAL have been flagged in the system and would the seller be able to have access to very recent “flagged” license holders?

This is a good question and I’d love to see someone with expertise answer.

I’m not certain, but I doubt a PAL (if either had one) would be flagged at that point as they were still considered missing? JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

But you would agree that it was in the vicinity of 'gunshot violence' , as quoted by the RCMP? > meaning, that a gun of some caliber was involved... ?? or.. you have other information that negates the whole idea of 'gunshot". ? The RCMP didn't detail the method used to murder Lucas Fowler, or Chynna Deese. That may turn out to be quite complex, but the RCMP was definite that in the case of Prof Dyck, the term used was 'gunshot violence'. .

It’s the other way around. Police confirmed L&C died by gun violence, but not the cause of death for Prof Dyck, out of respect for his family.

“Investigators confirmed that Deese and Fowler were on a road trip exploring Northern British Columbia and that they were "victims of gun violence."...”
Missing teens now suspects in murders of couple, Canadian police say

 

[LoisLane]

This is a good question and I’d love to see someone with expertise answer.

I’m not certain, but I doubt a PAL (if either had one) would be flagged at that point as they were still considered missing? JMO

I’m not sure if either had a license but if they did I’m curious how this would work and if being reported missing would connect into the PAL system. I wonder if Police have access to this information as easily as they do by pulling up a drivers license.