Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #20

[Lalalacasbah]

If BS or KM purchased ammo do they need to present the PAL license? If they made such a purchase while on the run like in Meadow Lake for example, would the PAL have been flagged in the system and would the seller be able to have access to very recent “flagged” license holders?

Good observation! Looks like you need a license to buy ammo in Canada:

In order to buy any ammunition anywhere in Canada, you must have a valid Canadian PAL(or POL, if you still have one of those). If you buy any ammo in the province of Ontario, Provincial legislation requires that your PAL number — and address! — are recorded andentered into a log book kept at the store where you bought the ammunition, even if it’s just some powder.

Canada Gun FAQ: General

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m not sure if either had a license but if they did I’m curious how this would work and if being reported missing would connect into the PAL system. I wonder if Police have access to this information as easily as they do by pulling up a drivers license.

And I was wondering as well which is similar in thought to your post - is PAL a card or paper document that one just shows a clerk or does their number actually get put into a computer online to connect to a database of "approval"?

Is PAL digitized or oldschool? There must be tiny little stores in the middle of nowhere selling ammo that probably have no internet connection. So if someone wants to buy ammo there, they just flash their PAL card?

 

[Grouper]

And I was wondering as well which is similar in thought to your post - is PAL a card or paper document that one just shows a clerk or does their number actually get put into a computer online to connect to a database of "approval"?

Is PAL digitized or oldschool? There must be tiny little stores in the middle of nowhere selling ammo that probably have no internet connection. So if someone wants to buy ammo there, they just flash their PAL card?

How To legally Get A Gun in Canada

 

[MistyWaters]

The Cold Lake guy didn’t give these two a very good character reference -

“Wish I’d of known,” Ste-Croix said. “Something wasn’t right with these guys.” He described them as “kids” who looked “scared.”

Looking back, he said their status as fugitives explains something about the odd way they were acting.

“It all makes sense now on why they were eyeing me down so f—ing hard.” He said they could have shot him and taken his truck instead of shaking his hand....”
‘My big heart could have got me killed’: Albertan unknowingly helped B.C. fugitives

 

[LoisLane]

And I was wondering as well which is similar in thought to your post - is PAL a card or paper document that one just shows a clerk or does their number actually get put into a computer online to connect to a database of "approval"?

Is PAL digitized or oldschool? There must be tiny little stores in the middle of nowhere selling ammo that probably have no internet connection. So if someone wants to buy ammo there, they just flash their PAL card?

That’s what I’m wondering too. The link you quote above says a log book which is pretty old school. But, if they did purchase and then the store recognizes them in the news later they could easily check the log book to verify. If that did happen I could see that being why the military/police presence was expedited to Gillam.

 

[zinny77]

The Cold Lake guy didn’t give these two a very good character reference -

“Wish I’d of known,” Ste-Croix said. “Something wasn’t right with these guys.” He described them as “kids” who looked “scared.”

Looking back, he said their status as fugitives explains something about the odd way they were acting.

“It all makes sense now on why they were eyeing me down so f—ing hard.” He said they could have shot him and taken his truck instead of shaking his hand....”
‘My big heart could have got me killed’: Albertan unknowingly helped B.C. fugitives

He did give them really good character reference at first. It got worse and worse as the days passed (and he was getting creative to find new things to say and still be interviewed JMO )

 

[Grouper]

That’s what I’m wondering too. The link you quote above says a log book which is pretty old school. But, if they did purchase and then the store recognizes them in the news later they could easily check the log book to verify. If that did happen I could see that being why the military/police presence was expedited to Gillam.

Sorry, it’s late here and I’m a little sleepy — could you clarify what you mean here?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

How To legally Get A Gun in Canada

Yes, helpful as I see you get a little pink card lol (I'll post a pic to save others a link trip) but I wonder the process at the store you buy the guns/ammo?

Is it a computerized vetting system or you just flash a plastic card?

 

[zinny77]

Sorry, it’s late here and I’m a little sleepy — could you clarify what you mean here?

I think that it means that if RCMP found out that Kam and Bryer bought some ammunitions, they sent a full force to get them as it might mean they would kill again.

It is a good theory (but it would be ammunitiona to kill themselves then?)

 

[Grouper]

Yes, helpful as I see you get a little pink card lol (I'll post a pic to save others a link trip) but I wonder the process at the store you buy the guns/ammo?

Is it a computerized vetting system or you just flash a plastic card?

View attachment 205609

Again not an expert! I have to assume you just.... flash it at the counter, much like when they card you for liquor? Perhaps they look at it a little closer in this scenario but I’d imagine it works about the same way? JMO

 

[Grouper]

I think tahthatt it means that if RCMP found out that Kam and Bryer bought some ammunitions, they sent a full force to get them as it might mean they would kill again.

It is a good theory (but it would be ammunitiona to kill themselves then?)

That might be going too far down the rabbit hole for me haha

But it could be a possible explanation. I’m looking forward to reading their reasons for the huge military presence. Because that has baffled me from the start.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm curious whether purchasing with a PAL is done analogue or digital approval process because I was dabbling with the idea if it was easy to make a fake PAL card...

I think they might be hard cards to fake though and doubtful these guys did that.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Again not an expert! I have to assume you just.... flash it at the counter, much like when they card you for liquor? Perhaps they look at it a little closer in this scenario but I’d imagine it works about the same way? JMO

Where are the gun owning Websleuthers to help us?!

 

[zinny77]

That might be going too far down the rabbit hole for me haha

But it could be a possible explanation. I’m looking forward to reading their reasons for the huge military presence. Because that has baffled me from the start.

I mean it's not that far fetched. If someone called to say that K and B did buy or try to buy ammunitions, that would explain the heavy handed (justified) reaction IMO

 

[Grouper]

Yes, helpful as I see you get a little pink card lol (I'll post a pic to save others a link trip) but I wonder the process at the store you buy the guns/ammo?

Is it a computerized vetting system or you just flash a plastic card?

View attachment 205609

This is a Reddit thread where they talk about the process of purchasing ammo at Canadian Tire (also a little bit concerning.... apparently this person bought ammo without being asked for their PAL)

Buying Ammo From Canadian Tire : canadaguns

 

[MistyWaters]

That might be going too far down the rabbit hole for me haha

But it could be a possible explanation. I’m looking forward to reading their reasons for the huge military presence. Because that has baffled me from the start.

The military assisted in air support, but not by ground presence.

“In the criminal investigation of the two fugitives in northern MB, the RCMP have requested aircraft support from the Cdn Armed Forces. Prompt reply — YES,” he wrote.”
Canadian Forces approved to join air search for B.C. murder suspects

 

[MistyWaters]

Where are the gun owning Websleuthers to help us?!

But we don’t know that either one was licensed. And I’m not understanding why it’d be likely they’d attempt to buy ammunition at Meadow Lake and then head to the remotest portion of northern Manitoba. Or why police would only then be keenly focused on apprehending them because of purchasing ammunition, as opposed to being tasked with arresting them because they were identified as suspects in the violent murders of three victims.

 

[LoisLane]

Sorry, it’s late here and I’m a little sleepy — could you clarify what you mean here?

I’m exploring whether the suspects could have purchased ammunition at the Meadowlake COOP. If they attempted would they need a PAL/POL license to purchase (seems so).

If the seller has to verify the license they must be able to reference the sale details quite easily.

I am wondering how current and active the PAL system is and if it’s connected to missing/wanted people who are license holders - in real time.

It was said in the news that the employees recognized them as being in the store when they learned of them through the media reports.

So IF the suspects did make an ammo purchase and the COOP followed up with police with footage (after learning through the news outlets they were wanted) then possibly the PAL system isn’t a real time database.

But if they did make an ammo purchase there then that could also be another key factor to why the presence in Gillam was so locked down.

Or of course they did not purchase ammo there.

 

[LoisLane]

I think that it means that if RCMP found out that Kam and Bryer bought some ammunitions, they sent a full force to get them as it might mean they would kill again.

It is a good theory (but it would be ammunitiona to kill themselves then?)

I guess it may depend on how much they bought but considering there was a trail of victims the police couldn’t take any chances or have predicted their only intent of suicide.

 

[Grouper]

I’m exploring whether the suspects could have purchased ammunition at the Meadowlake COOP. If they attempted would they need a PAL/POL license to purchase (seems so).

If the seller has to verify the license they must be able to reference the sale details quite easily.

I am wondering how current and active the PAL system is and if it’s connected to missing/wanted people who are license holders - in real time.

It was said in the news that the employees recognized them as being in the store when they learned of them through the media reports.

So IF the suspects did make an ammo purchase and the COOP followed up with police with footage (after learning through the news outlets they were wanted) then possibly the PAL system isn’t a real time database.

But if they did make an ammo purchase there then that could also be another key factor to why the presence in Gillam was so locked down.

Or of course they did not purchase ammo there.

I think this is a decent theory (JMO obviously). Like I said it could offer one explanation to the inexplicably massive police/RCMP/military presence.

I have to wonder if this was part of why the RCMP stressed that they were “armed and dangerous”.

Of course, if they DID purchase ammo in Meadow Lake, we don’t know why or how much. They could have just bought enough to ensure they had their own fate in their hands, when they reached Gillam.

Of course of course of course, this is all JMO