Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[sandbar]

But it does appear the RCMP believed the two couldn’t have survived that length of time in the bush.

“It had been 12 days since police began their manhunt around Sundance Creek, and despite finding evidence of the fugitives, Insp. Fiedler was considering winding down the search.

But I doubt Fielder took his vest off.
I'd almost rather hear RCMP say "we didn't have anymore vests". Ridiculous enough.
Than
"We figured the risk was small, for him, but we kept our vests on." If that's the case, it's awful.

 

[Esprite]

But why would a good tracker want to track suspects who are armed and dangerous and risk getting shot to death? I think this is the reason it appears most of the initial search was conducted by air.

Billy's life involves guns, and he would have been well-protected by the throngs around him. Sorry for being unclear, but I didn't mean that he should do the tracking alone.

 

[Zella]

Billy's life involves guns, and he would have been well-protected by the throngs around him. Sorry for being unclear, but I didn't mean that he should do the tracking alone.

There's a huge difference between a life that involves guns as a hunter and shooting enthusiast and having to face down armed suspects who have already killed 3 people and may very well be interested in killing you.

 

[Esprite]

There's a huge difference between a life that involves guns as a hunter and shooting enthusiast and having to face down armed suspects who have already killed 3 people and may very well be interested in killing you.

Guns are actually a constant factor in Billy's livelihood, and he's no doubt a proficient shot. Having never trapped a grizzly bear, I really have no further comment, except that it's too bad the RCMP didn't ask for his assistance until they had pretty much given up the search, and were packing up to leave the area. Seems quite disrespectful to me, as is not giving him any credit for his role in the outcome.

 

[Zella]

Guns are actually a constant factor in Billy's livelihood, and he's no doubt a proficient shot. Having never trapped a grizzly bear, I really have no further comment, except that it's too bad the RCMP didn't ask for his assistance until they had pretty much given up the search, and were packing up to leave the area. Seems quite disrespectful to me.

Again, there is a big difference between being an accomplished hunter and proficient shot and comfortable with guns and being experienced or comfortable with facing down armed and dangerous assailants.

I think Billy Beardy is one of the heroes of this story and is no doubt an accomplished tracker and hunter and guide, but that doesn't mean he was comfortable with the position he was put in and was okay with the idea that at any minute he could have been shot and killed by Kam and Bryer. In fact, he has directly stated that he was scared and it worried him and his wife.

 

[ktm44]

I can certainly understand Mr Beardy’s alarm after discovering the dead bodies and being hit with the realization of the danger the two posed after seeing first-hand their guns laying beside their bodies.

But it does appear the RCMP believed the two couldn’t have survived that length of time in the bush. It was amazing their bodies were discovered and if not for their discarded articles, it would’ve been like finding a needle in a haystack IMO.

“It had been 12 days since police began their manhunt around Sundance Creek, and despite finding evidence of the fugitives, Insp. Fiedler was considering winding down the search.

Manitoba RCMP officers believed the men could not have survived and there was a good chance their bodies would never be found. Predators such as bears and wolves may have gotten to them. Or they could have drowned in the Nelson River and been swept to Hudson Bay.”
How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

I've agreed with you many times through this but this is one time I feel the RCMP dropped the ball. Their members are required to wear their vests for safety reasons and I believe that any civilian consultant working with the RCMP should be required to be equipped in the same fashion.

The only reason they hadn't survived in the bush was because they took their own lives and if they hadn't, they certainly had enough ammo and a handy location to

The RCMP may have believed the suspects were dead but they had no proof at that time and they should have insisted Mr Beardy wear one as well. Being an avid outdoorsman, I suspect Mr Beardy would have declined a vest if it was offered but it should have been worded in such a way Mr Beardy didn't feel it have the option of refusing.

In my opion, allowing him work in in a potentially dangerous situation was a poor decision.

 

[MistyWaters]

Guns are actually a constant factor in Billy's livelihood, and he's no doubt a proficient shot. Having never trapped a grizzly bear, I really have no further comment, except that it's too bad the RCMP didn't ask for his assistance until they had pretty much given up the search, and were packing up to leave the area. Seems quite disrespectful to me, as is not giving him any credit for his role in the outcome.

Throughout that time, Billy Beardy organized and actively participated in a patrol to ensure the safety of his fellow citizens of Fox Lake Cree Nation, is my understanding, which was an important role both to the police and within his community. And no, the RCMP did not publicly thank him at the time but I’m not sure that would’ve been appropriate to single him out considering the unsuccessful outcome of the search. But that’s not to say his involvement won’t be acknowledged in the future by a Citizens Award for his bravery. I’d be very surprised if he’s forgotten.

 

[Iwondertoo]

In my opion, allowing him work in in a potentially dangerous situation was a poor decision.

I think it was a poor decision too even though the RCMP suspected they were dead. After all, when they first saw KM but didn't know where BS was, they landed and it was reported the RCMP member pulled his gun out. I think the reason he pulled his gun was because until they found BS down the hill, they couldn't be absolutely certain he wasn't waiting to ambush them. The RCMP member would be foolish NOT to pull his gun. In hindsight, Billy Beardy should have been wearing a vest as well IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think it was a poor decision too even though the RCMP suspected they were dead. After all, when they first saw KM but didn't know where BS was, they landed and it was reported the RCMP member pulled his gun out. I think the reason he pulled his gun was because until they found BS down the hill, they couldn't be absolutely certain he wasn't waiting to ambush them. The RCMP member would be foolish NOT to pull his gun. In hindsight, Billy Beardy should have been wearing a vest as well IMO.

I suppose the question could be then, should he have been involved at all because a bullet proof vest doesn’t protect one from getting shot in the head.

But in the video on the link below he says he’d do it all over again, laughs “with a bullet proof vest”.

How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

During the dive search he also drove the boat.

“Tactical officers offered firepower protection and a helicopter kept watch overhead.”

 

[Iwondertoo]

I suppose the question could be then, should he have been involved at all because a bullet proof vest doesn’t protect one from getting shot in the head.

But in the video on the link below he says he’d do it all over again, laughs “with a bullet proof vest”.

How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

During the dive search he also drove the boat.

“Tactical officers offered firepower protection and a helicopter kept watch overhead.”

I totally agree with you @MistyWaters

What went on was unprecedented in Canada, manhunts of this magnatude are few and far between. I remember in the video Billy Beardy saying he'd do the same thing again.

The 'no vest for BB' happened and that's why I think 'in hindsight' he should have had one.

There will be lessons to be learned here but at the time, even Billy Beardy didn't seem too concerned. And even he said he'd do the same again (but in hindsight with a vest).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, I totally understand. I was merely conveying that even "nice guys" can have a dark side (at any age). Maybe Kam and Bryer also committed multiple thefts, perhaps they even tortured small animals and were never caught. Everybody starts with zero criminal record, until they get caught doing something criminal. Being nice just helps them to blend in to the community and to gain trust - it's all a facade. Terry Driver, (the Abbotsford Killer), for example - all his workmates and people who knew him well swore he didn't do it. It was his own mother who turned him in after recognizing his voice when he was making taunting calls to the police. These boys were anything but nice.

I remember that Terry Driver, so creepy! I lived close to Abbotsford at the time, similar age as those girls and would've easily been out late like them. Scary stuff. I remember people being surprised it was him as well.

I agree, I've stated my opinion (and personal experience with a stalker) about this way back in the thread but think it was deleted. They're almost always 'nice guys'. I notice sometimes peers and our society try to rationalize these 'bad guys' and think they're 'not that bad'. If I had a nickle for how many times I've heard that I'd be rich!

I do believe in empathy and helping those who genuinely and truly want to be helped as I think it's important as a society to do so, but it's about chances and what those people do when offered help and given chances. I find it can get blurry.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I personally don’t believe Kam and Bryer survived very long in the bush before being found dead. We don’t know how long they eluded the police, but they were not seasoned escape artists. I’d say they just had beginner’s luck. I think the RCMP did a thorough job with difficult circumstances and worked endlessly and tirelessly.

SBM - agreed.

And to add:

- RCMP also had people's safety to be liable for, Kam and Bryer did not and had that to their advantage

- K&B probably knew where RCMP were, RCMP likely didn't exactly know where they were

- K&B had time on their side, RCMP did not.

RCMP had to pretty much tip toe delicately geographically and while searching communities and buildings knowing two hot heads were armed, not rational, unpredictable and indiscriminate in who they killed. They had to be careful especially since it was pretty much an international news story.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I read the TOS and WS threads and I think I can post this link and paraphrase but can't quote or screenshot it, as it's a blog and not MSM. I hope I have this right!

Not a big revelation but blog is of Retired RCMP Homicide Detective and Forensic Coroner and his synopsis of this case.

He seems to mention details that aren't in the report... paraphrasing: mentions 3 counts of FIRST degree murder, bullet-ridden bodies and 'first wounds' from back, PA youth sources tipping off RCMP about the twosome, SKS ammo found in burned camper, they maybe went down the bank for drinking water and got trapped, B&K mention in video they had no accomplice (weird thing to say, guess they wanted all the credit?), single self inflicted wounds immediately fatal, etc.

Was this the guy interviewed on TV? I'm terrible with names. If you read the comments, the writer mentions the dark web and gaming might've been an influence.

Also, Billy Beardy is mentioned in the story which is great!

SCHMEGELSKY & MCLEOD: THE SENSELESS STORY OF TWO KILLER KIDS - Dying Words

 

[Jan424]

I read the TOS and WS threads and I think I can post this link and paraphrase but can't quote or screenshot it, as it's a blog and not MSM. I hope I have this right!

Not a big revelation but blog is of Retired RCMP Homicide Detective and Forensic Coroner and his synopsis of this case.

He seems to mention details that aren't in the report... paraphrasing: mentions 3 counts of FIRST degree murder, bullet-ridden bodies and 'first wounds' from back, PA youth sources tipping off RCMP about the twosome, SKS ammo found in burned camper, they maybe went down the bank for drinking water and got trapped, B&K mention in video they had no accomplice (weird thing to say, guess they wanted all the credit?), single self inflicted wounds immediately fatal, etc.

Was this the guy interviewed on TV? I'm terrible with names. If you read the comments, the writer mentions the dark web and gaming might've been an influence.

Also, Billy Beardy is mentioned in the story which is great!

SCHMEGELSKY & MCLEOD: THE SENSELESS STORY OF TWO KILLER KIDS - Dying Words

Wow, these extra details are so interesting (especially PA youth sources being the tip off to police). Thank you for posting this!

 

[poupetty77]

Wow, these extra details are so interesting (especially PA youth sources being the tip off to police). Thank you for posting this!

Does he have inside knowledge? Because it sounds like he is talking about what we saw in the interviews + he has his own theory of video games/internet being to blame.

 

[Jan424]

Again, there is a big difference between being an accomplished hunter and proficient shot and comfortable with guns and being experienced or comfortable with facing down armed and dangerous assailants.

I think Billy Beardy is one of the heroes of this story and is no doubt an accomplished tracker and hunter and guide, but that doesn't mean he was comfortable with the position he was put in and was okay with the idea that at any minute he could have been shot and killed by Kam and Bryer. In fact, he has directly stated that he was scared and it worried him and his wife.

Agree, and I do hope Billy Beardy gets some type of commendation for his bravery. He didn't have to do what he did. I wish we had more people like him in this world.

 

[MistyWaters]

I read the TOS and WS threads and I think I can post this link and paraphrase but can't quote or screenshot it, as it's a blog and not MSM. I hope I have this right!

Not a big revelation but blog is of Retired RCMP Homicide Detective and Forensic Coroner and his synopsis of this case.

He seems to mention details that aren't in the report... paraphrasing: mentions 3 counts of FIRST degree murder, bullet-ridden bodies and 'first wounds' from back, PA youth sources tipping off RCMP about the twosome, SKS ammo found in burned camper, they maybe went down the bank for drinking water and got trapped, B&K mention in video they had no accomplice (weird thing to say, guess they wanted all the credit?), single self inflicted wounds immediately fatal, etc.

Was this the guy interviewed on TV? I'm terrible with names. If you read the comments, the writer mentions the dark web and gaming might've been an influence.

Also, Billy Beardy is mentioned in the story which is great!

SCHMEGELSKY & MCLEOD: THE SENSELESS STORY OF TWO KILLER KIDS - Dying Words

Water, of course! That’s a very possible reason why they were forced to go down the banks to the river’s edge, to sooth their thirst because they couldn’t find a stream, then were unable to climb back up. Justice via Mother Nature, one could say.

Thanks for posting this link. I thought it a well-written concise summary of the case from an ex-RCMP perspective.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agree, and I do hope Billy Beardy gets some type of commendation for his bravery. He didn't have to do what he did. I wish we had more people like him in this world.

I hope he does too. I have huge admiration for him and folks like him who are willing to work with police with the shared objective of safe communities.

Of the two people involved in this case who we had the opportunity to gain a little bit of insight into their lives by through media interviews - BB and AS - I’m just going to say, what an extreme they represented, both in personality and lifestyle. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thank you so much @Lalalacasbah for this great find.

Some further comments:

* Youths strongly suspected that not only BS had a dark side but KM had one too.
* BS spent hours online viewing disturbing acts.
* When Billy Beardy saw the raven he recognised it as a carrion site and it was feeding on meat. (shudder)
* BS’s rifle was a black market weapon.
* RCMP were told to keep the videos sealed forever.
* The author’s opinion of the teens in the last para.

 

[Runningforthewind]

BB and AS - I’m just going to say, what an extreme they represented, both in personality and lifestyle. JMO

Well one is one of the suspects father and the other is a civillian who has no emotional ties to the suspect, just his own family and community so their approach and circumstances are going to be different.