Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[MistyWaters]

So, I have a question for the people who meet any or all of the above criteria:

a) are disgusted by the idea of these guys getting any more media publicity or any more information being released about them,

b) agree with the "No Notoriety" campaign that increased publicity for killers and discussion of their crimes leads to copycat killings,

c) think that absolutely nothing could have been done to prevent this spree, and these guys were just psychopaths who were destined to be killers from birth,

What is your motivation for continuing to post on here about this case? I am genuinely curious.
.

Talking about aspects of this case is not glorifying the killers. I have no interest in knowing any more about them than has already been released.

Without direct involvement including the ability to speak with family members, friends, teachers, coworkers no one here could possibly make recommendations regarding prevention. We’d be fooling ourselves if we think we’ve become experts only through following media reports.

 

[katydid23]

An interesting book called "Ghosts from the Nursery" looks at the development of violence due to a person's experiences from pre-birth http://scholar.google.com.au/schola...vRpPuObxPwbYw0VH2zcHuZCoA&nossl=1&oi=scholarr
This is also influenced by genetic predisposition and every interaction with the world and other people.

This is interesting because my Mother was interviewed by my brothers doctor at the mental hospital. And one of the things they were interested in was her pregnancy. And when she mentioned that she had an illness during the 1st trimester, and was hospitalised, with an infection, they told her that could have affected his future mental health.

We always wondered because we had no other relatives that we knew of, in either side of the family, with schizophrenia. It was a total surprise when he was finally diagnosed.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Talking about aspects of this case is not glorifying the killers. I have no interest in knowing any more about them than has already been released.

Without direct involvement including the ability to speak with family members, friends, teachers, coworkers no one here could possibly make recommendations regarding prevention. We’d be fooling ourselves if we think we’ve become experts only through following media reports.

Ok so if you have no interest in knowing more about them, then what is your motivation for continuing to follow this case? (Again, I am asking this question out of genuine curiosity.)

 

[katydid23]

@katydid23

The "Hitmen for Hire" video is not part of the Basement Tapes. That is a (very awkward and cringy, IMO) class project they did for school (which has a ton of red flags in hindsight, of course...but back in the late 90s I don't think teachers knew about these warning signs). There's also about 90 minutes of various other random videos and comedy sketches they did on Youtube, which were not related to the murders (these guys were actually into vlogging years before Youtube existed...interesting).

I know it wasn't part of the basement tapes. But it was a tape of them, wearing their stupid coats, acting out in the way they acted during the killings.
The point is, the pictures of them taken, like the one below, should never have been released to the public:




LITTLETON, CO – APRIL 20: (VIDEO CAPTURE) Columbine high school shooters Eric Harris (L) and Dylan Klebold appear on a surveillance tape in the cafeteria at Columbine High School April 20, 1999 in Littleton, CO during their shooting spree which killed 13 people. (Photo by Kevin Moloney/Getty Images)

 

[DarkSkink]

that doesn't address the claim you make...… Why hasn't any thing been learned after all this time ?

and who is keeping whom ignorant about these matters ?


these are claims you keep making, without addressing the questions that naturally arise from such peculiar claims.

It's not a peculiar claim. In some instances, killings can be prevented. Many killings have likely been prevented by just people deciding to be more involved parents, or less abusive parents. All of which, is based on choices people make with their kids learned from generations of study and public debate.

Modern society based on the rule of law is the most obvious proof that killing can be prevented, even outlawed when societies recognize the problems and the causes, debate the issues and solutions, and then act.

 

[Trooper]

So, I have a question for the people who meet any or all of the above criteria:

a) are disgusted by the idea of these guys getting any more media publicity or any more information being released about them,

b) agree with the "No Notoriety" campaign that increased publicity for killers and discussion of their crimes leads to copycat killings,

c) think that absolutely nothing could have been done to prevent this spree, and these guys were just psychopaths who were destined to be killers from birth,

What is your motivation for continuing to post on here about this case? I am genuinely curious.



Again, the Basement Tapes were never released.

I have not deviated from the beginning that these two were going to turn out to be the dullest , dreariest murderers this century so far, and nothing has changed my mind in that regard.

I follow this thread, because I find it interesting for research , the amount of people who will make excuses and find mitigating circumstances for these two vicious little killers. It's the parents fault, it's the lack of counselling, it's the community of Port A, it's Canada's lax laws and tough economic conditions ( ?) it's the mothers fault, it's the fathers fault, it's the conjunction of the planets, the moon in Jupiter and so on. .

It takes a lot to get round to laying the responsibility out where it undoubtably belongs, but some are never going to get there, not in my lifetime...

That's what interests me. Fertile fields here, too..

 

[NJSleuth91]

I know it wasn't part of the basement tapes. But it was a tape of them, wearing their stupid coats, acting out in the way they acted during the killings.

True. Personally I thought these non-murder-related videos gave a lot of insight into what their deal was...but of course, for the greater good, probably none of it should have been released, none of it should have ever been discussed online, the Columbine subreddit should be shut down, etc. If we really are serious about preventing copycats.

But, of course, if as some have claimed, these types of killers are unredeemable psychopaths destined to murder innocent people from the moment of birth, then nothing we can do will prevent violence at all, will it? So which one is it?

LITTLETON, CO – APRIL 20: (VIDEO CAPTURE) Columbine high school shooters Eric Harris (L) and Dylan Klebold appear on a surveillance tape in the cafeteria at Columbine High School April 20, 1999 in Littleton, CO during their shooting spree which killed 13 people. (Photo by Kevin Moloney/Getty Images)

Unfortunately even just a few weeks ago I saw footage of the garlic festival mass shooting being aired on the news at 7 AM, when even small children getting ready for school might see it. With victims screaming, gunshots, and all. That crossed a line even for me. We don't need to see footage of people getting shot to understand a shooting has taken place....

 

[Trooper]

It's not a peculiar claim. In some instances, killings can be prevented. Many killings have likely been prevented by just people deciding to be more involved parents, or less abusive parents. All of which, is based on choices people make with their kids learned from generations of study and public debate.

Modern society based on the rule of law is the most obvious proof that killing can be prevented, even outlawed when societies recognize the problems and the causes, debate the issues and solutions, and then act.

How on earth have you arrived at the figure of MANY KILLINGS being prevented because parents decide to be more involved? where is the stats and the back up for that ? How in Gods Name do you know a killing was actually PREVENTED ? much less by the action of a 'more involved ' parent?

What exactly consists of a 'more' involved parent? what consists of 'less' ? is there some measuring tool somewhere?

 

[NJSleuth91]

I have not deviated from the beginning that these two were going to turn out to be the dullest , dreariest murderers this century so far, and nothing has changed my mind in that regard.

I follow this thread, because I find it interesting for research , the amount of people who will make excuses and find mitigating circumstances for these two vicious little killers. It's the parents fault, it's the lack of counselling, it's the community of Port A, it's Canada's lax laws and tough economic conditions ( ?) it's the mothers fault, it's the fathers fault, it's the conjunction of the planets, the moon in Jupiter and so on. .

It takes a lot to get round to laying the responsibility out where it undoubtable belongs, but some are never going to get there, not in my lifetime...

That's what interests me. Fertile fields here, too..

Well..ok then. And that has captured your interest for three months straight and counting?

 

[Trooper]

Who decides exactly what a 'more 'involved parent does? what do they look like? what does a less involved one look like? who makes the call?

 

[Trooper]

Well..ok then. And that has captured your interest for three months straight and counting?

sure has. There is a new one every day.

perhaps not as riveting as your obsession with Columbine, but in it's small way, quite absorbing.

 

[Trooper]

First up, DarkSkink. something needs to be a bit qualified here, … are you a parent yourself? a simple yes or no, doesn't require an essay answer.

 

[DarkSkink]

How on earth have you arrived at the figure of MANY KILLINGS being prevented because parents decide to be more involved? where is the stats and the back up for that ? How in Gods Name do you know a killing was actually PREVENTED ? much less by the action of a 'more involved ' parent?

What exactly consists of a 'more' involved parent? what consists of 'less' ? is there some measuring tool somewhere?

Exactly. How can you measure preventive success without a time machine?

However, modern bullying initiatives, for example, may have prevented some mass killings 20 years from now when a recently bullied child was assisted rather than left to the bullies. We know bullying can lead to mass killings committed by the bully victim by studying the reasons and words from the killers themselves.

Without studying and discussing the motives, you won't ever learn how to prevent it.

 

[Trooper]

Exactly. How can you measure preventive success without a time machine?

However, modern bullying initiatives, for example, may have prevented some mass killings 20 years from now when a recently bullied child was assisted rather than left to the bullies. We know bullying can lead to mass killings committed by the bully victim by studying the reasons and words from the killers themselves.

Without studying and discussing the motives, you won't ever learn how to prevent it.

But.. you have no idea what motive K and B had. They left no words of what bully's said to them, ( if any , Bryers claim to his Dad that he was bullied is classic psychopath stuff, echo what the listener wants to hear, and Kam left no indication he'd been bullied, neither has anyone else, ) so any part of your theory is made up as far as K and B are concerned.

You are confusing cause with correlation. May have prevented killing is a lot less than your original claim of HAS ALREADY prevented.

'We' know nothing of the sort that bullying can lead to mass murder, what 'we ' know is sometimes mass murderers may refer to some incident back in their past where someone perhaps laid out the truth of their actions to them, and this was regarded as 'bullying' by in incipient killer.

Studying the killers words needs a great deal of discernment, as usually, when they are uttering these words, they are in no position to speak their true minds, as they are hell bent on wriggling out of whatever repulsive crime they are being questioned about, under circumstances not at all conducive to reflection.

Naturally, a killer is going to say, under questioning by authority,' ooo yes, yes sir, I was bullied!. ' Sympathy is hard to come by in the interrogation room. And every tactic must be laid out in the hopes of even attracting a tiny amount of sympathy at that point in time for your average murderer.

So, are you a parent yourself, DarkSkink , or is all this theory and unrelated to practice ?

 

[DarkSkink]

But.. you have no idea what motive K and B had. They left no words of what bully's said to them, ( if any , Bryers claim to his Dad that he was bullied is classic psychopath stuff, echo what the listener wants to hear, and Kam left no indication he'd been bullied, neither has anyone else, ) so any part of your theory is made up as far as K and B are concerned.

You are confusing cause with correlation. May have prevented killing is a lot less than your original claim of HAS ALREADY prevented.

'We' know nothing of the sort that bullying can lead to mass murder, what 'we ' know is sometimes mass murderers may refer to some incident back in their past where someone perhaps laid out the truth of their actions to them, and this was regarded as 'bullying' by in incipient killer.

Studying the killers words needs a great deal of discernment, as usually, when they are uttering these words, they are in no position to speak their true minds, as they are hell bent on wriggling out of whatever repulsive crime they are being questioned about, under circumstances not at all conducive to reflection.

Naturally, a killer is going to say, under questioning by authority,' ooo yes, yes sir, I was bullied!. ' Sympathy is hard to come by in the interrogation room. And every tactic must be laid out in the hopes of even attracting a tiny amount of sympathy at that point in time for your average murderer.

So, are you a parent yourself, DarkSkink , or is all this theory and unrelated to practice ?

Just like a killer is likely lie and claim they copied others in order to gain notoriety.

 

[srper2]

DBM

 

[NJSleuth91]

sure has. There is a new one every day.

perhaps not as riveting as your obsession with Columbine, but in it's small way, quite absorbing.

I see. Well, thank you for answering honestly!

 

[Trooper]

I see. Well, thank you for answering honestly!

what other way is worth one's time except honestly?

 

[srper2]

Who decides exactly what a 'more 'involved parent does? what do they look like? what does a less involved one look like? who makes the call?

There are professionals who understand the lower and upper limits of parental "involvement" and how these affect a child's development. It is not a simple thing and each individual child and parent has their own particular needs and individual ways of interacting.

 

[they'll get you]

sure has. There is a new one every day.

perhaps not as riveting as your obsession with Columbine, but in it's small way, quite absorbing.

It’s another one of our Aussie kids killed over there. I’m hurting as well.

Lucas Fowler, Justine Ruszczyk and now Brenton Estorffe.
All three too trusting. I guess the only way their ‘involved parents’ might have seen them survive is to keep them at home here in Aus but let’s face you can’t keep them wrapped in cotton wool.
One child ventures out with wonderment and another with a gun.
Go figure.