Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #8

[Tee404]

SBM, BBM...
I do not believe that it is possible to survive for seven days in the weather over the last week unless you are properly dressed, with layers, and have shelter.

That 84 year old woman survived four days in the same terrain. And she is an elderly woman, not two healthy young men...

I mean, it's possible really....

 

[otto]

So, the RCMP suspects they have at least one gun.

No similar cause of death for Prof Dyck, though, right?

RCMP suspect that the teens are responsible for the double murder, and RCMP know that if the teens were responsible for the murders, they have a gun.

No information has been released about how Prof Dyck died, or whether the Rav4 belonged to him (although it's likely that he was only identified after the burned Rav4 was found).

 

[OldFarmer]

4 pm ish

Well that shoots that theory then. I was thinking it might have been dusk when the Bear Clan saw the suspects, and it’s super easy to see things that aren’t really there at dusk. I can’t even tell you how many times in the woods at dusk I’ve been a little nervous, seen a bear, got all excited, only to discover that bear was in fact a tree stump. Also the time, at dusk again, I saw a hunter out in the woods, all dressed in hunting camo, standing pretty still. Got a little closer and that fella was actually a small pine tree.

Then that sound early one evening, looked out my front window and see some guy in the driveway trying to steal my truck. Jerk was dressed all in black, crouched by the door of the truck, clearly trying to jimmy the lock. Just as I was about to dial 911, I peaked out the window again and realized the jerk was actually a bear. Dusk. Not so good for the eyes.

 

[KR72]

That 84 year old woman survived four days in the same terrain. And she is an elderly woman, not two healthy young men...

I mean, it's possible really....

Anything is possible, but that woman was lost in southern Manitoba, very different from the north.

 

[NorthernWild]

Interesting, those FLIR, heat imaging sensors can see heat from inside your home/building as well. Thermal Imaging Surveillance

They can see the heat emitted by the building. So a heat source that warms the wall will show as a warm area on the wall. To see anything, FLIR must have direct line of sight to a warm object. If you hide out somewhere long enough, what you’re hiding under/behind can warm up so you show through (though likely not in very clear form). If you use one of those thermal blankets to hide under, they can be quite effective.

 

[Tee404]

@otto - do you have an updated map of their movements and occurrences? I've been searching the threads but can't find the ones where you've listed the date and occurrence...

 

[SiciC]

It took firefighters over two hours to clear a path to her and another two hours to return her to civilization, according to RCMP. Byman was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.
A Canadian woman who vanished while picking berries was found five days later - CNN

Not to be off topic but I wonder very much how she managed to get herself so lost in the wilderness. I realize it is vast and treacherous, but wow! I wonder how the search for her can compare to these teens though. I imagine the search for the teens is much larger, and yet they're still unaccounted for and nothing of them has been found for quite a while longer than Mary was even missing.. Not even a piece of garbage or a torn clothing.

edited cause I worded it weird the first time, sorry lol

 

[Deleted member 248860]

That 84 year old woman survived four days in the same terrain. And she is an elderly woman, not two healthy young men...

I mean, it's possible really....

Four days is not seven, we don’t know how cold or rainy it was, and the 84 year old woman traveled 1.2 miles

 

[otto]

I'm not very familiar with Canadian LE, but I would assume they would indeed lay out all the evidence so the public feels confident that the case has been resolved and there's no unknown danger still lurking out there.

Crime evidence is presented in court. At most, RCMP will release a statement similar to the one today stating that they cannot confirm that the suspects were in the area. One day, they might say that they cannot confirm that the suspects are alive.

 

[Estrojane]

It may well be that RCMP are not divulging this, but it has concerned me that not even discarded rubbish from these blokes has been picked up, by human or dog .. wrappers, from MRE's, evidence of small fires, useless pieces of clothing.. , and let's say, they are , as Alan (the Dad ) claims , 'masters' at bushmanship, no one has picked up the remains of birds, or animals they are eating, chewed bones, smouldering cooking fires, even their waste product, .. it's as if they are passing over the land , hovering about 3 feet above ground, ingesting nothing, eliminating nothing, needing nothing, ..

And all this is Perfect, Spectacular health, no broken bones, no debilitating coughing, no gastro enteric problems, no minor accidents, ( a stubbed toe, a stick in the eye, a burn of the hand ) …

Stuff and human waste can be buried.

Fish can be caught and eaten raw. Believe it or not, I know people who eat raw squirrel and raw rabbit; very digestible contrary to what people think. No need for fire. Would be nuts for them to build any kind of fire right now while there is an active manhunt out for them. Berries can be gorged on if you find them. One can eat lots of other wild things(raw) if you know what to forage.

On my walks in the forest I do pick various plants and eat them like salad depending on what's growing when. Often times I have found water mint and watercress growing wild around small northern streams. You can eat certain moss.

Maybe they know.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Interesting, those FLIR, heat imaging sensors can see heat from inside your home/building as well. Thermal Imaging Surveillance

Thanks for the link. Very informative read for me.

 

[afitzy]

That 84 year old woman survived four days in the same terrain. And she is an elderly woman, not two healthy young men...

I mean, it's possible really....

Yes, but she was from that area and very experienced. One of her grandchildren gave an interview talking about all the survival skills they had learned from their grandparents. Yes she was tough but she had a lifetime of experience in that environment. There are some good videos of the area where she went missing taken by the press so you can see how finding her was truly a needle in a haystack.

 

[Tee404]

Not to be off topic but I wonder very much how she managed to get herself so lost in the wilderness. I realize it is vast and treacherous, but wow! I wonder how the search for her can compare to these teens though. I imagine the search for the teens is much larger, and yet they're still unaccounted for and nothing of them has been found for longer than she was missing. Not even a piece of garbage or a torn clothing.

I get lost in the carpark when I go to find my parked car so..... haha.

The search for her included man-power and air traffic but they haven't released the circumstances surrounding how she was actually found (by a person on the ground, the aircraft, did she wonder into civilisation etc).

 

[10ofRods]

I respectfully disagree. Except soldiers and hunters, few people wear full camo. It's not a thing. And that outfit he is wearing is not at all mall rat clothing.



To equate this with a cute camo purse or gorgeous little jacket that looks zero like actual military wear, is not an apt comparison, IMO.

I wasn't. I think you're missing my point. First of all, Bryer's "camo" is not military camo, IMO. It's just exactly the kind of camo that is bought at malls and surplus outlets all around North America. Including Vancouver. I see it worn by teens at malls, in National Parks (including Canadian ones) and so on. The fabric with which Bryer's outfit seems to be made does not resemble (nor does it fit like) the camo I see on actual military (I live near a base and I have students who wear camo to class - which, btw, used not to be allowed by the base, but...now it is, and it's hard to tell real military from fashion military, except of course, the fabric is much more densely woven and the fit is designed for more things to be worn under it).

"Full camo" looks like this to me:

We haven't seen the lower half of Bryer's body, but the top lacks the hood, the waist construction and neck cover of full camo. So yes, Bryer's camo (bought by his father at a surplus store or mall, IMO) is exactly what I see on campus, in the mall (a lot, more often than on campus) or at the grocery store. It is almost always 17-22 year olds wearing it.

Certainly, there are other full camo styles, but the hokey buttons on Bryers do not look military to me. Since it's pretty important to me to distinguish between military and others, when I see them, I try to pay attention. There's a more tropical camo too (popular here in the SoCal desert and there's desert camo). The pattern on Bryer's camo doesn't look like any of these nor does it have a flap on the buttons or on the zipper. Actually, his looks a lot like one for sale on Amazon.

Ultimately, I suppose both the military and civilians are buying Made in China camo, but the military style usually has pockets on the sleeves, a sturdy placket to protect the buttons (also helps not get hung up in brush, etc).

Anyway, we can agree to disagree. Perhaps it's just the ill fitting nature of Bryer's camo and the fact his dad says he got it for Christmas that makes me think of the kids in the mall.

 

[jillybean51]

I agree that there has been no clear information provided on the cause of death of Mr. D and they are only suspects in the other murders. The victims died far more than 7 driving miles apart from each other! Torching their vehicle and taking Mr D's makes no sense, and running from the law also seems to have made things far worse for them, but none of what has happened appears to make any sense really.

I wonder if they hit Mr D with their vehicle.There was a large dent in the roof.They might have panicked when they found he had been killed.I’m still not definitely linking the two crimes together,especially with an unknown person seen by the van.

 

[sprucetip]

Two things I keep thinking.

Eyewitnesses are not always correct. They can be sincere but sincerely wrong, especially if they already know what they'd like to or should see. "Where they two tall white guys". Oh yup, yes they were.

I have only worked with this in critical incident reporting in health care but memory and expectations really affect reports and that you can get many very conflicting descriptions of the same incidents. Not deception but perception filtered through unique minds.

So did Bear Clan members see something? Probably, but who knows what, positively.

I also think that whoever was at the dump would have heard a vehicle approaching on an unpaved road before were seen. I'd think they would have already been fleeing with back to the vehicle before the Clan members could see. So how much did they really see well?

No right or wrong but maybe things are not always as reported, but not through any malice. We interpret so much.

Many reason they may not have heard the vehicle - wind, direction, obstacles in the way, how distracted and tired they are, etc. Hard to believe those weren’t the suspects, down to the camo clothing and everything.

 

[Gina20]

So, it is possible that:

1. They may have jacked another vehicle before they burned the Rav4, and before they headed to Gillam. They got a ride back to Shell Lake from a friendly stranger, and are long gone in another vehicle, all before anyone noticed.

2. They may be getting help on this journey, and are still in the area.

3. They are wily survivors with ninja-like mystical powers to vanish in thin air.

4. None of the above. They are deceased.

No concensus required.

 

[Tee404]

Four days is not seven and the 84 year old woman traveled 1.2 miles

Fair call, but I am just throwing it out there. An elderly woman with zero supplies survived four days and nights in the wilderness (albiet a couple of km's) and she WANTED to be found. These two lads are young and healthy, we don't know what supplies they have and they are actively avoiding capture. Not stating because she can last they can, but it is certainly a decent stream of thought.

 

[Herat]

They can see the heat emitted by the building. So a heat source that warms the wall will show as a warm area on the wall. To see anything, FLIR must have direct line of sight to a warm object. If you hide out somewhere long enough, what you’re hiding under/behind can warm up so you show through (though likely not in very clear form). If you use one of those thermal blankets to hide under, they can be quite effective.

Somehow, I think they would know that the reflective thermal blankets are good for hiding from the FLIR.

 

[otto]

There is absolutely nothing in your razor sharp conclusion there, Mr rrstren, that can be argued with. The whole scenario of the trek, the managing of the weather and their own temperature has all the hallmarks of a Merlin -type venture. Certainly, people, human beings of various backgrounds have survived appalling conditions, eg. the chap who crawled down a mountain with a broken pelvis, and a broken leg, after falling down a crevasse, across glaciers, snowfields, etc. .. there are amazing , true stories. A man who was lost in the bush for a fortnight, living on moths, and sticky ants, etc. .. building his shelter with his one unbroken arm out of reeds .. one could go on.

But these two. .. I just don't see it. The distances, the conditions, the terrain, the mental situation they are in, all are negative and debilitating. .

Maybe backtrack to what is known. They burned the vehicle next to train tracks on Monday or Tuesday. They had a day lead on RCMP.

Maybe they hopped a northbound train, hopped off between Gillam and Churchill (RCMP searched the train at Churchill on Thursday), hopped back on when the train was heading South to Winnipeg, hopped off before they got to Winnipeg and ... as long as they lay low, they're in the wind.