Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

[Lexiintoronto]

Thank you, I learned a lot from this podcast.

The father, CZ, said the mother repeatedly defied court orders to allow him access to the children. He ultimately was awarded full custody in part to violence in the mother’s home.

He said his ex-wife’s father is a rancher, familiar with the rural area. CZ believes the children and abductors may be north of where they were last seen. CZ has access to the girls’ medical records, and neither has been tested for COVID. That gives him some hope they haven’t crossed borders.

At the 11:00 minute mark he adds details of a private investigator his ex-wife’s family hired.

-He is a former Calgary police service member of 24 years. He acted as a security guard of some sort, appeared with them in court.

- CZ felt they were being followed, court records confirm that is true.

-CZ’s daughter, Wyatt, was with grandmother Theresa O’Driscoll and the private investigator the last time CZ saw them.

-The PI was at the O’Driscoll home when the children went missing, he was not driving his usual vehicle. The police (RCMP?) allowed the PI to leave. CZ’s father tried to follow him, but lost him.

-abductors left their vehicle and cell phones behind.

-RCMP are tracking the abductors’ credit cards, but haven’t found any clues to date.

-CZ is not in contact with his ex-wife

^^Too late to edit the above, but the above post is what father CZ said in the podcast. This is his version of the story. I was trying to transcribe what he said.

 

[otto]

^^Too late to edit the above, but the above post is what father CZ said in the podcast. This is his version of the story. I was trying to transcribe what he said.

I can't imagine that a statement from the victim is a problem at this website.

 

[MistyWaters]

Is it just me, or is dad insinuating that the PI was involved ?
If the PI was at their home at the time of disappearance driving a different car, and the missing4 took no car or cell phones.. it sounds like the initial “getaway” may have been in the PI vehicle, then dumped or dropped off somewhere for a secondary vehicle.
This is so sad. Both sides I’m sure think they are doing the right thing (in terms of them being the safest place for the kids) if mom (or even just grandma and auntie) believe dad is SA’ing the kids, they would want to protect them. And dad went on record saying mom was mentally ill, and now, physically abusive. Who’s being honest? Both? Neither?

I thought he seemed baffled as to why a security guard was involved at all - I would be too. That this maternal family allegedly hired this ex-officer/security guard to follow CZ, to be present at the home with the children, plus attend court? This is definitely not a family short of resources but it also indicates the lengths they’re willing to take to maintain control over these children IMO.

Unrelated but anyone living in the Calgary area will immediately recall a prior case involving a private investigation firm run by an ex-police officer and a bitter custody dispute. They all got nailed to the wall for their underhanded and illegal tactics.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...arassment-sentence-appeal-dismissed-1.5891640

 

[otto]

I thought he seemed baffled as to why a security guard was involved at all - I would be too. That this maternal family allegedly hired this ex-officer/security guard to follow CZ, to be present at the home with the children, plus attend court? This is definitely not a family short of resources but it also indicates the lengths they’re willing to take to maintain control over these children IMO.

Unrelated but anyone living in the Calgary area will immediately recall a prior case involving a private investigation firm run by an ex-police officer and a bitter custody dispute. They all got nailed to the wall for their underhanded and illegal tactics.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calg...arassment-sentence-appeal-dismissed-1.5891640

It's a very good thing that the father had the RCMP escort to collect his children. Had he arrived alone, we would have been confronted by an angry mob including a private investigator who is a former police officer. I hesitate to speculate what was going to unfold without RCMP attendance.

I agree that RCMP could not have a high speed car chase given that the children could have been hidden in the vehicle driven by the private investigator, but RCMP does need to go above and beyond given that they failed to intervene at the critical moment when the children might have been removed.

 

[MistyWaters]

Friday March 12th, exactly four weeks ago, the date the grandmother and aunt disappeared with the children - 28 days.

It seems to me this is beyond the ex battling to have contact with his children following the separation with the ex 18 months ago. He’s up against the entire maternal family who seem to be using every resource possible to wear him down. If he didn’t have strong support by now he’d probably have thrown up his hands in defeat and moved on with his life. For that reason I respect him for intending to have a future relationship with his children.

JMO

 

[otto]

Friday March 12th, exactly four weeks ago, the date the grandmother and aunt disappeared with the children - 28 days.

It seems to me this is beyond the ex battling to have contact with his children following the separation with the ex 18 months ago. He’s up against the entire maternal family who seem to be using every resource possible to wear him down. If he didn’t have strong support by now he’d probably have thrown up his hands in defeat and moved on with his life. For that reason I respect him for intending to have a future relationship with his children.

JMO

Many men, when falsely accused of sexually abusing their children during custody dispute, are so shocked by the threat of sex offender stigma that they walk away from the custody dispute. Good for the father to hold his ground and stand up for his parental rights.

Shame on the mother, her family and her lawyers for sacrificing the children's well being and allowing the mother to escalate divorce conflict for personal gain.

 

[MistyWaters]

Many men, when falsely accused of sexually abusing their children during custody dispute, are so shocked by the threat of sex offender stigma that they walk away from the custody dispute. Good for the father to hold his ground and stand up for his parental rights.

Shame on the mother, her family and her lawyers for sacrificing the children's well being and allowing the mother to escalate divorce conflict for personal gain.

Yes the potential ramifications for any innocent person accused of sexually abusing their children must be enormous.

CZ claims when these two allegations were made he hadn’t even seen the children. Did JOZ forget she was violating Court Orders and preventing CZ from access?

 

[otto]

Yes the potential ramifications for any innocent person accused of sexually abusing their children must be enormous.

CZ claims when these two allegations were made he hadn’t even seen the children. Did JOZ forget she was violating Court Orders and preventing CZ from access?

I think the mother found a lawyer who handed her a tray filled with the standard mud-slinging tools that were common 30 years ago. The mother hadn't yet lobbed the "sexual abuse" allegation, so she concocted a sexual abuse allegation. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that she took that false allegations to the RCMP. That's the first clue that the allegations are false. Authentic allegations are taken to the family doctor because, simply put, the priority is the health and wellness of the children.

The reason I suspect that the allegations were brought to the RCMP rather than the family doctor is because RCMP did an investigation, cleared the father, and now the lawyer suggests that RCMP are sloppy. There has been a suggestion by the lawyers that RCMP should consider that the abductors might be victims, that they are all lying dead somewhere. Instead, RCMP have said that they believe the children are okay and that they are being helped by extended family.

 

[otto]

I thought allegations of sexual abuse by the father against the children was the height of what could be alleged about the father. Now I'm wondering whether the latest allegation is that he is homicidal.

Suggestions by the lawyer are that the RCMP are making a mistake and that they should view the abductors as victims. If RCMP don't view the abductors as victims, and all four "bodies show up somewhere else," the lawyer will be upset. Lawyer Diann Castle does not say that the mother will be upset, only that she will be upset.

The father is worried that the children could be in harm's way. That's a no brainer - the children have been abducted.

The mother's lawyer says that the children might be deceased, but does not explain how she arrived at this point. All four might be victims, so who is the bad guy - the father? Nothing in the lawyer's statement suggests a random abduction from the grandparents' home while the mother and grandfather looked on. They reported that the grandmother and aunt left with the children and did not return.

How does the lawyer arrive at the point that the abductors are victims and their "bodies might show up somewhere else?"

"He’s worried Leonine and Wyatt could be in harm’s way. “We’re just going on hunches,” said Colin. “We don’t know where the girls are.”
...

Co-counsel Tanya Kelm said there’s a “complicated history behind it all” but RCMP are only investigating one possible conclusion.

“It’s assumed the grandmother and the aunt have abducted the children,” Kelm said Thursday. “There has been no exploration of the alternatives.” She said there are concerns about the safety of the children and of their grandmother and aunt.

“(It appears) the RCMP has a reason to believe they’re safe — and I hope they do, because if they don’t and their bodies show up somewhere else I would be very upset,” said Castle."
​

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought allegations of sexual abuse by the father against the children was the height of what could be alleged about the father. Now I'm wondering whether the latest allegation is that he is homicidal.

Suggestions by the lawyer are that the RCMP are making a mistake and that they should view the abductors as victims. If RCMP don't view the abductors as victims, and all four "bodies show up somewhere else," the lawyer will be upset. Lawyer Diann Castle does not say that the mother will be upset, only that she will be upset.

The father is worried that the children could be in harm's way. That's a no brainer - the children have been abducted.

The mother's lawyer says that the children might be deceased, but does not explain how she arrived at this point. All four might be victims, so who is the bad guy - the father? Nothing in the lawyer's statement suggests a random abduction from the grandparents' home while the mother and grandfather looked on. They reported that the grandmother and aunt left with the children and did not return.

How does the lawyer arrive at the point that the abductors are victims and their "bodies might show up somewhere else?"

"He’s worried Leonine and Wyatt could be in harm’s way. “We’re just going on hunches,” said Colin. “We don’t know where the girls are.”
...

Co-counsel Tanya Kelm said there’s a “complicated history behind it all” but RCMP are only investigating one possible conclusion.

“It’s assumed the grandmother and the aunt have abducted the children,” Kelm said Thursday. “There has been no exploration of the alternatives.” She said there are concerns about the safety of the children and of their grandmother and aunt.

“(It appears) the RCMP has a reason to believe they’re safe — and I hope they do, because if they don’t and their bodies show up somewhere else I would be very upset,” said Castle."
​

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance

Yes moving forward, after failed sexual assault allegations does fear the ex is a homicidal maniac come next? Wouldn’t that typically come first, JOZ filing for divorce instead of the other way around? If this is what is being hinted at either they’re knowingly making it up expecting authorities to believe each new story as it comes or they’ve have become delusional, which always poses a dangerous situation especially as it appears this attorney is reinforcing their beliefs.

I wonder if JOZ remembered to inform this latest legal team the family (allegedly) employed a security guard? I’d presume it’d be his responsibility to know the four are safely hidden away as we’ve not heard of a 5th missing person....another who may’ve succumbed to an alternate conclusion.

ETA -

 

[otto]

Yes moving forward, after failed sexual assault allegations does fear the ex is a homicidal maniac come next? Wouldn’t that typically come first, JOZ filing for divorce instead of the other way around? If this is what is being hinted at either they’re knowingly making it up expecting authorities to believe each new story as it comes or they’ve have become delusional, which always poses a dangerous situation especially as it appears this attorney is reinforcing their beliefs.

I wonder if JOZ remembered to inform this latest legal team the family (allegedly) employed a security guard? I’d presume it’d be his responsibility to know the four are safely hidden away as we’ve not heard of a 5th missing person....another who may’ve succumbed to an alternate conclusion.

ETA -

I suspect she tried to create the illusion of homicidal maniac when she refused to allow the children to see their father during scheduled visitation. To strengthen her argument, she probably elicited support from the neighbours to witness his anger that was caused by frustration at her interference with his rights.

It's becoming evident that she repeatedly set him up with situations where any rational parent would be upset, and then used the fact that he was upset against him.

You make a very important point regarding the private investigator that was hired by the mother to protect the children. Obviously he knows where the children are hiding - that's his job. If he lost track of the abductors or children, or believes they are bodies in a ditch, why has he remained silent?

 

[MistyWaters]

I suspect she tried to create the illusion of homicidal maniac when she refused to allow the children to see their father during scheduled visitation. To strengthen her argument, she probably elicited support from the neighbours to witness his anger that was caused by frustration at her interference with his rights.

It's becoming evident that she repeatedly set him up with situations where any rational parent would be upset, and then used the fact that he was upset against him.

You make a very important point regarding the private investigator that was hired by the mother to protect the children. Obviously he knows where the children are hiding - that's his job. If he lost track of the abductors or children, or believes they are bodies in a ditch, why has he remained silent?

During the podcast CZ said he was granted full custody because of violence occurring. Although he didn’t elaborate I wonder if he was baited to engage, but instead he wisely maintained strong self-control.
For a court to suddenly grant full custody to him for that reason I’d think he must’ve had some sort of proof such as video.

I also wonder what role the private investigator is playing in all this. The RCMP made it quite clear anyone aiding and abetting the abduction could face criminal charges and as an ex-police officer he’d certainly be aware of that in advance.

Now begins week five, I’m hopeful of resolution. Surely by now the grandmother and aunt are becoming weary of hiding, acting like a pair of fugitives.

 

[Lyanna]

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abca/d...31.html?autocompleteStr=Zak&autocompletePos=3

Probably been posted, but just in case.

 

[otto]

During the podcast CZ said he was granted full custody because of violence occurring. Although he didn’t elaborate I wonder if he was baited to engage, but instead he wisely maintained strong self-control.
For a court to suddenly grant full custody to him for that reason I’d think he must’ve had some sort of proof such as video.

I also wonder what role the private investigator is playing in all this. The RCMP made it quite clear anyone aiding and abetting the abduction could face criminal charges and as an ex-police officer he’d certainly be aware of that in advance.

Now begins week five, I’m hopeful of resolution. Surely by now the grandmother and aunt are becoming weary of hiding, acting like a pair of fugitives.

I think that depends on where they are. If they are in Toronto, they are busy setting up a new life with the assistance of family and perhaps their private investigator. If they are living in a shack near the grandparents' property, then they can't live like that for long.

It's a 36 hour drive from Calgary to Toronto, so the abductors could manage the trip in 3-5 days with one driver sleeping half the time. I suspect that the mother has a relative living in Toronto who could help them.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think that depends on where they are. If they are in Toronto, they are busy setting up a new life with the assistance of family and perhaps their private investigator. If they are living in a shack near the grandparents' property, then they can't live like that for long.

It's a 36 hour drive from Calgary to Toronto, so the abductors could manage the trip in 3-5 days with one driver sleeping half the time. I suspect that the mother has a relative living in Toronto who could help them.

During the podcast CZ mentioned his children were missing just under two weeks. I agree, it’s possible they spent a few days hiding out somewhere near Cochrane, then decided that wasn’t feasible on the longer term while awaiting for this latest miracle-worker of an attorney to fight with the Court and make things right. So then they moved on to a location with a far greater population.

In the Global TV video the RCMP spokesperson mentioned contact with police in other jurisdictions...I could be wrong but I took that to be a clue the RCMP might know roughly where they are hiding out within Canada, but not yet specifically.

 

[otto]

During the podcast CZ mentioned his children were missing just under two weeks. I agree, it’s possible they spent a few days hiding out somewhere near Cochrane, then decided that wasn’t feasible on the longer term while awaiting for this latest miracle-worker of an attorney to fight with the Court and make things right. So then they moved on to a location with a far greater population.

In the Global TV video the RCMP spokesperson mentioned contact with police in other jurisdictions...I could be wrong but I took that to be a clue the RCMP might know roughly where they are hiding out within Canada, but not yet specifically.

An airbnb in Toronto, or one of the surrounding areas, is an option. Without proof that a Toronto relative is providing assistance, those bank accounts would be off-limits. That means the family could live quietly, paying cash for rental, nothing would be in their names. Masking in public would obscure who they are, especially if they avoided going out as a group of four.

 

[otto]

It might be an idea for the father to launch an awareness campaign in Toronto - a week of daily awareness might produce tips about the location of the children.

I have a daughter in Ottawa who is well connected with social media. I've just asked her to spread the word.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I can't help but wonder, does the grandmother, aunt, and anyone/everyone else assisting them in the crime of kidnapping the kids, honestly think they're going to just... get away with it?

Do they think the dad and (more importantly) the RCMP are just going to go
"well, dang, we can't find 'em... I guess we'll just move on". ??

They cannot possibly believe this is going to end well, for them. Can they?

 

[Seattle1]

I can't help but wonder, does the grandmother, aunt, and anyone/everyone else assisting them in the crime of kidnapping the kids, honestly think they're going to just... get away with it?

Do they think the dad and (more importantly) the RCMP are just going to go
"well, dang, we can't find 'em... I guess we'll just move on". ??

They cannot possibly believe this is going to end well, for them. Can they?

To be honest, I think there's some mental deficiency here. From the court proceedings, it seems the mother-- JOZ, concedes, promises to comply, and does the complete opposite. Not just once -- but over and over again! The reunification therapist stated that she either doesn't believe the orders, ignores them, or thinks they don't apply to her. Seems she has zero respect for the Court, and I get the feeling the same must apply to RCMP.

 

[MistyWaters]

To be honest, I think there's some mental deficiency here. From the court proceedings, it seems the mother-- JOZ, concedes, promises to comply, and does the complete opposite. Not just once -- but over and over again! The reunification therapist stated that she either doesn't believe the orders, ignores them, or thinks they don't apply to her. Seems she has zero respect for the Court, and I get the feeling the same must apply to RCMP.

That’s the impression I got as well. Another possible explanation I’ve considered is JOZ begins with reasonably good intentions but then her family members interfere and stand in the way. For that reason I wonder who’s actually leading this fiasco. I can’t think of any reason the grandmother and aunt haven’t yet turned over the children other than they’re strongly committed not to do so.