Found Deceased Canada - Shannon Burgess, 25, Calgary, 26 Nov 2014 - #3 *Arrest*

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I agree partly otto - her sister looks extremely worried, stressed and her eyes look concerned and sad.

But she also just went vacationing in the Bahamas in Jan 2015 and some of her comments I've seen on her BF's FB sounds quite light hearted, funny and optimistic. This might be her trying to 'keep on carrying on normally' as it was probably nice to get away from the stress in Calgary.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, which is apparently quite true!

Yes, but you can take a still from the same interview with her smiling though. It is very, very subjective.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Sorry I haven't caught up all the way yet, but I thought they were going through a messy divorce?

It's going to take me forever to catch up on this one.

Messy divorce hasn't been confirmed. IIRC it was only one or two news publication that used this term, so could be sloppy journalism or in fact said from a source. I have a feeling the statement is true, JMO.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Shannon ... still missing.
Last seen by husband at home Nov 27 12:30AM and immediately after Shannon returned from Edmonton
Shannon was not seen by anyone else after leaving Edmonton late on Nov 26 ... when you think about it. Maybe she left Edmonton around 8:30-9PM? Is there any factual information about the time that Shannon left Edmonton?

Husband did not report Shannon missing even though Shannon was not seen, and her phone and car were at home for five days throughout the weekend. Still, he did not report her missing. By the sounds of it, Shannon's family tried to contact the husband during the day on Monday, Dec 1, and were unable to connect with him until he had arrived home after work on Monday.

What if we learned that Shannon texted friends from Edmonton at about 8:30PM (guessing about the time) that she could not make Yuk Yuks because she was still waiting for the brakes to be fixed in Edmonton? What if she returned home just before midnight? What if her husband asked her how she paid for the brake repair and the cost was put on shared debt? The husband has a steady job and was most likely paying all the bills. Shannon was in Edmonton Auditioning for a Competition. She was cast for the part, but the following week, when shoots were set, she was missing ... apparently last seen in Edmonton late on Nov 26, and "last seen" by her husband after arriving in Calgary.

According to the husband, Shannon arrived home from Edmonton, and then apparently went out at 12:30AM or he left at 12:30AM, and she has not been seen alive by anyone else after leaving friends in Edmonton three hours prior to arriving in Calgary. When did she arrive in Calgary ... when did she leave Edmonton?

How long was Shannon in Calgary before she apparently went out (without her car or phone), or the husband left to parts unknown, at 12:30AM?

These are the eyes of the sibling of a missing sibling that has been confirmed deceased.

I don't recall seeing anything about he left, or she left, other than speculation here.

They may have gone to separate rooms to sleep.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, but you can take a still from the same interview with her smiling though. It is very, very subjective.

Agreed, I almost used the currently trending Scarlett Johansson/John Travolta Oscars still shot as an example in my post, but my post was already so long. People took one still shot and made it creepy, spun it, went with it and poor John Travolta is being called John Revolta (even though his hair plugs are creepy)! The meaning of a photo can be interpreted differently by every viewer that's for sure.

No offense to otto and his post, I know what he's trying to say. It's more the media I'm referring to - not otto's post per se.

 

[otto]

Is the husband actually smiling at the press conference?

This photo is the face of Shannon's good friend and husband who absent-mindedly misplaced his wife and didn't realize that her whereabouts were important to anyone until five days after her cell phone and car were found untouched at home and no one had heard from her, and her family was frantically phoning the husband ... who did not communicate with Shannon's family until after he got home from work on Dec 1, late afternoon.

Something about this stinks.

Are there any cameras on the Co-op Ramsay Property?

If there were, and Shannon left of her own volition at any time after 12:30AM Nov 27, 2014, police would have released the "latest footage" ... if only for the purpose of asking people that saw someone with her resemblance to come forward.

 

[mayelf]

One more question, hope you don't mind, catching up is hard. Was the husband not really home during those 5 days and was it normal for him not to touch base for long periods of time?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The family during the Plea for the Safe Return of Shannon Madill; nee Burgess.

Photo #3: Personally, I like to put my hands in my pockets but someone told me a long time ago it's kind of bad social etiquette as it signals boredom/disinterest. These aren't the best sources, bust definitely interesting that JB has his hands in his pockets with protruding thumbs (BBM):

"Forensic Assessment Interview Technique: The forensic assessment interview technique, or FAINT, uses verbal and nonverbal cues to evaluate the interviewee’s deception or truthfulness. People who are trying to deceive the interviewer use evasive statements and lack of detail. Body language plays an important role in this technique, with signs of openness, such as hands on the table and legs uncrossed with both feet on the floor as indicators of truthfulness, and negative body language like crossed arms, hands in pockets or leaning or turning away from the interviewer as signs of deception."

http://woman.thenest.com/investigation-interview-techniques-10885.html

"Keep your hands out of your pockets. Standing with your hands in your pockets may send several signals to those around you, probably none of them what you intend. Unless you are trying to look less confident, as if you are holding yourself back, you are bored, or you are hiding something, then take your hands out of your pockets."
http://www.careeroverview.com/blog/2010/50-body-language-secrets/

On the other hand, the thumbs demonstrate confidence/superiority:

"4. THUMBS: Often seen with high-status individuals, the thumb sticking out of the pocket is a high-confidence display. When individuals carry their thumbs high, it is a sign that they think highly of themselves and/or are confident in their thoughts or present circumstances. Thumbs up is another example of a gravity-defying gesture, a type of nonverbal behavior normally associated with comfort and high confidence.”
http://www.mrmediatraining.com/2013/05/02/five-things-you-should-know-about-body-language/

"Thumb Displays: As mentioned earlier, thumbs denote superiority. In palmistry, the thumbs represent strength of character and the ego, and body language signals involving the thumbs also show self-important attitudes. Thumbs are used to display dominance, assertiveness or sometimes aggressive attitudes; thumb gestures are secondary gestures and are usually part of a cluster. Thumb displays are positive signals, often used in the typical pose of the 'cool' individual who uses them to show superiority.
http://westsidetoastmasters.com/resources/book_of_body_language/chap6.html

 

[kdgdid]

From your example LE said nothing, including to the family[ I know the family], did a Mr Big sting with KM's S/O, how do we know that LE is not doing the same with SB's

How do we know that police don't suspect Shannon's husband of having some involvement in her disappearance? Estranged couples don't always report a missing spouse, and the usual reason is because the living spouse murdered the missing spouse.

Example: husband did not report spouse missing at any time, hid body in house and continued to live at home with young children for two years until police obtained search warrant: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/remain...n-missing-two-years-husband-charged-1.2136108

 

[otto]

Sorry I haven't caught up all the way yet, but I thought they were going through a messy divorce?

It's going to take me forever to catch up on this one.

Shannon had an open marriage.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Is the husband actually smiling at the press conference?

This photo is the face of Shannon's good friend and husband who absent-mindedly misplaced his wife and didn't realize that her whereabouts were important to anyone until five days after her cell phone and car were found untouched at home and no one had heard from her, and her family was frantically phoning the husband ... who did not communicate with Shannon's family until after he got home from work on Dec 1, late afternoon.

Something about this stinks.

Are there any cameras on the Co-op Ramsay Property?

If there were, and Shannon left of her own volition at any time after 12:30AM Nov 27, 2014, police would have released the "latest footage" ... if only for the purpose of asking people that saw someone with her resemblance to come forward.

If you have ever been in a truly open relationship, or at the end of a relationship and in the same house... then you'll know it is plausible not to have contact with one another, and even avoid contact with one another.

If you've ever been in a relationship with a drama and attention seeker, then you'll know all too well calls from friends and family regarding issues are the norm.

Without a doubt, this case has all the typical red flags of something sinister, but there are also very plausible explanations, based on real life, for the "unusual" behaviour.

 

[otto]

One more question, hope you don't mind, catching up is hard. Was the husband not really home during those 5 days and was it normal for him not to touch base for long periods of time?

He can be out of touch as much as he wants, but when his wife is missing for five days, to the extent that her family is frantic, it's not okay to ignore the calls until the end of the day.

The husband shares a home with his wife, Shannon. They last saw each other at 12:30AM Nov 27 at the home that they shared.

Shannon has not been seen by anyone after being with friends in Edmonton late on Nov 26.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

... and sometimes... your pants are too tight and your thumbs just don't fit.

Some people are also hyper aware of their body positioning socially, and don't want to be aware of their hand movements in difficult situations, so they immobilize them.

Some people are also aware that they are being analyzed and don't want to appear threatening, so they take a more submissive posture.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

He can be out of touch as much as he wants, but when his wife is missing for five days, to the extent that her family is frantic, it's not okay to ignore the calls until the end of the day.

The husband shares a home with his wife, Shannon. They last saw each other at 12:30AM Nov 27 at the home that they shared.

Shannon has not been seen by anyone after being with friends in Edmonton late on Nov 26.

If you have ever done any construction work like demolition, you will know a cell phone, especially smart phones these days, won't last an hour anywhere on your body without getting damaged. Most times, lunch rooms aren't secured, so often times you leave your phone in the car for safety and security... and don't get back to it until the end of the day.

I don't recall reading that he deliberately ignored calls.

There are realistic explanations.

 

[kdgdid]

You also are aware no matter what your relationship is with the person that you share a dwelling with if they have been there in the last 5 days.

If you have ever done any construction work like demolition, you will know a cell phone, especially smart phones these days, won't last an hour anywhere on your body without getting damaged. Most times, lunch rooms aren't secured, so often times you leave your phone in the car for safety and security... and don't get back to it until the end of the day.

I don't recall reading that he deliberately ignored calls.

There are realistic explanations.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

You also are aware no matter what your relationship is with the person that you share a dwelling with if they have been there in the last 5 days.

If you're both sleeping with other people, estranged, and in the habit of leaving town for days... even if he knew she wasn't there and if it's not out of the norm for them as a couple... then...

I'm loathe to defend anyone, but life and relationships aren't as simple as calling the police for every concern.

We don't have the full history.

 

[otto]

... other than the husband.

For the record, Shannon was not see by her friends in Edmonton after she left Edmonton on Nov 26 ... that is, there's an information gap between lots of friends in Edmonton, and last seen.

Is that true?

No one saw Shannon after she left Edmonton ... except her husband, and he absent-mindedly didn't notice that she was missing for five day, didn't think to contact anyone in her family about the fact that he hadn't seen his wife for four days, no one had seen her, her cell phone was at home, her car was at home, he hadn't seen her for five days, and he saw no reason to notify authorities about his wife's disappearance.

No wonder her family is worried!

 

[kdgdid]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not be concerned if they had not seen a loved one in that area for five days. I have never lived in Ramsey but did live in Inglewood about 15 years ago. I had two children under two and as a stress release would go for a walk at night after they were in bed. I always took my dog, a german shepherd with me and even with having the dog ran in to some scary situations.Unless that area has been seriously cleaned up I can not imagine that a woman would just walk in that area at night. OfTheDarkness;11536358]If you're both sleeping with other people, estranged, and in the habit of leaving town for days... even if he knew she wasn't there and if it's not out of the norm for them as a couple... then...

I'm loathe to defend anyone, but life and relationships aren't as simple as calling the police for every concern.

We don't have the full history.[/QUOTE]

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not be concerned if they had not seen a loved one in that area for five days. I have never lived in Ramsey but did live in Inglewood about 15 years ago. I had two children under two and as a stress release would go for a walk at night after they were in bed. I always took my dog, a german shepherd with me and even with having the dog ran in to some scary situations.Unless that area has been seriously cleaned up I can not imagine that a woman would just walk in that area at night. OfTheDarkness;11536358]If you're both sleeping with other people, estranged, and in the habit of leaving town for days... even if he knew she wasn't there and if it's not out of the norm for them as a couple... then...

I'm loathe to defend anyone, but life and relationships aren't as simple as calling the police for every concern.

We don't have the full history.

Her family also didn't hear from her for the exact same period, and wasn't concerned until she didn't show up to meet one of them... and even then it took them 24 hours to contact police.

I don't recall anyone saying she went out that night after getting home.

If there is a lifestyle involved here, especially if it is for income, then anything is possible, including a 'regular' picking her up at any point, even a day or two after she was last seen. It is entirely possible the husband isn't a suspect, and police are looking closer at a lover, client, or dating site aquaintance.

 

[evafiore]

Where's it coming from that the family believes she voluntarily disappeared? Doesn't sound like that to me, unless peeps are interpreting their lack of public appearances, etc is a complete reversal of their public statement at the presser.

From: http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/family-sa...disappear-without-contacting-anyone-1.2134851

<bbm>

Will be returned? (not will return). IMO, words can't get much stronger than "unbelievably unlikely"

They did plea, multiple times, for Shannon to contact her family. This would be based on a belief that it's possible she is not contacting them voluntarily, though unlikely.

The presser is open to interpretation, as are many of the details that we aren't clear on. We can interpret the husband's silence for five days as guilt or simply not knowing she was gone. We can interpret his statement that he last saw her at the home at 12:30am as a fabrication or the truth, and we can interpret 12:30am as unusually late or normal. We can interpret JB's active Cupid profile as part of an investigation, spite, or simply bad taste. We can interpret her last FB comments as loaded or candid and we can interpret her trip to Edmonton as solo or assisted. We can interpret "she left" as she left at 12:30am, or sometime after that, in the days it took for people to notice she was missing. We can interpret the "messy divorce" as simply gossip mongering or the truth and we can interpret the "shared home" as simply in deed or truly in practice. I won't even begin on interpreting facial expressions and body language. The possibilities are endless.

Something definitely stinks (hence the presser), but we can't make accusations based on interpretations, and neither can LE. This has not progressed to a criminal investigation in the public eye for a reason: it's not a criminal investigation, they're waiting it out (i.e., waiting for someone to slip up), or they're investigating behind the scenes. Focusing on the wrong person risks freeing the guilty party (if there even is a guilty party---going missing is not a crime), and letting the guilty party know that they're under scrutiny risks spoiling the investigation. Looking only for what we want to believe or what we assume and dismissing possibilities as impossibilities risks leaving a case permanently unsolved.

I must admit though, it's hard to fight the urge to jump to conclusions without any development in the case. We can only speculate.

Hell, maybe she sleepwalks.

 

[evafiore]

What can happen when investigators approach a case with a one-track mind: anyone remember the case of Mistie Murray? I knew her and her family. Or from further back, Lynne Harper? (Yet another from my community, most people are more familiar with the name of the accused, Steven Truscott---looks like my area's had our share of talented LE!). Because of LE's gross incompetence, no one will ever know what happened to Mistie, whether it was her father, someone else, or she disappeared willfully. Same with Lynne---rumour is her killer died years ago, never formally accused. LE's hasty actions and dismissal of anything other than what they wanted to believe spoiled the investigations.

Another article about Lynne: http://www.goderichsignalstar.com/2015/01/04/the-search-for-lynne-harper

And something from a time when the CBC used to fire hosts for "unprofessional" behaviour rather than turning a blind eye. (note to self: compassion for women bad at CBC, but abusing them is okay and can be overlooked... :thinking. *By posting this, I'm not asserting guilt or innocence of anyone in SB's case, but emphasizing the potential tragedy that can come from faulty investigation.