Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, husband arrested for abuse, Oct 2017 #2

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  • #841
It seems that Boyle and Coleman are only viewed through the lens of recently filed charges, and not through the reality of who they were when they decided to travel to a dangerous part of the world to save people. Five years of torture during captivity changed both of them to the extent that they will never be who they were then they embarked on their trip.
And I think the opposite is happening. I see the charges are being viewed as an unfortunate result of his captivity, rather than looking at who he was before captivity and why he went on that trip with a pregnant wife. I think we lost early details.

jmo
 
  • #842
Post #789

He told her to take 3 pills, meaning somewhere between 150 and 300mg.

Three pills is neither an overdose nor lethal:

"Desyrel (trazodone) is an antidepressant that increases serotonin activity in the brain. Trazodone is used for depression, anxiety, sleep and pain. Trazodone is not considered to be habit forming but should be taken exactly as prescribed by the doctor. Trazodone is available as 50 mg or 100 mg tablets.
...

It may take up to two weeks before you notice a response. A daily dose of trazodone may range from 150 to 375 milligrams."​

Trazodone (Oleptro) - Side Effects, Dosage, Interactions - Drugs
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/joshua-boyle-wife-coleman-testimony-april-2-1.5081992

There are insufficient studies to determine the effects of the drug on a fetus.
So if I’m prescribed 50mg per day, that means 50mg is my recommended dose. 300mg is NOT my personally recommended dosage. It’s 6x my recommended dosage. Therefore, it’s an overdose, according to this definition:
Overdose: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

From the link:
An overdose is when you take more than the normal or recommended amount of something, often a drug. An overdose may result in serious, harmful symptoms or death.

Please notice that it says MAY result in harmful symptoms or death. Not that it requires harm or death in order to be termed an overdose. Heck, I’ve heard EMS called (and yes they did transport) for that amount.


But fine. If we’re going to split hairs on the definition of overdose, let’s just go with the fact that it was illegal for him to give her ANY:

Is It Actually Illegal to Use Drugs Without a Prescription?

From the link:
You may have heard that using and sharing prescription drugs is legal. Many teens believe that if they get pills from their family's medicine cabinet, instead of a street dealer, then it's not against the law.


Nothing could be further from the truth. There are both federal and state laws that make using or sharing prescription drugs illegal. If you take a pill that was prescribed to someone else or give that pill to another person, not only is it against the law, it's extremely dangerous.


And that’s the end of my participation in this portion of the conversation. I’m just going to lay low and be thankful that my husband didn’t force me to take a week’s worth of Trazodone last night.
 
  • #843
And I think the opposite is happening. I see the charges are being viewed as an unfortunate result of his captivity, rather than looking at who he was before captivity and why he went on that trip with a pregnant wife. I think we lost early details.

jmo

If we assume that a woman is incapable of functioning as an adult and unable to make the same dumb choices as her husband, then of course it's all his fault that she traveled to Russia and the Middle East. Alternatively, if she naively and idealistically decided that it would be a great humanitarian trip (perhaps similar to previous trips they had taken) and she independently obtained a passport and travel documents, then she is responsible for her decisions. I haven't read anything about either of them being an unwilling participant in their humanitarian adventure, only that they were both seriously messed up when they returned.
 
  • #844
An aspiring journalist, Boyle had wanted to meet the Taliban, she said, so that he could “get the real story” since he felt they were misrepresented in the Western media.

She didn’t want to go to Afghanistan during their 2012 trip to Central Asia, but her husband insisted, she said, and left her with the feeling that she had no choice but to accompany him across its border.

Caitlan Coleman recounts abuse by Joshua Boyle while held hostage in Afghanistan
 
  • #845
If we assume that a woman is incapable of functioning as an adult and unable to make the same dumb choices as her husband, then of course it's all his fault that she traveled to Russia and the Middle East. Alternatively, if she naively and idealistically decided that it would be a great humanitarian trip (perhaps similar to previous trips they had taken) and she independently obtained a passport and travel documents, then she is responsible for her decisions. I haven't read anything about either of them being an unwilling participant in their humanitarian adventure, only that they were both seriously messed up when they returned.
She agreed to some of them, but she did not want to venture to where they eventually did, IIRC. I don't think he kept her in the loop but liked to keep her uninformed and dependent on him.

jmo
 
  • #846
They travelled though Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, and Kyrgyzstan. These are backwaters that few people visit. Boyle claimed he was there to write freelance travel articles for Western media. Coleman had agreed to go if Boyle promised not to go into Afghanistan.

They went to Afghanistan.

Boyle gives differing reasons for going. He says he wanted to do volunteer aid work yet claims in a court document to have been trying to break into journalism.

Snip

In her affidavit, she strongly suggests Boyle and his captors were on the same wavelength and she didn’t share their radical ideology. “I would like to stress, most strongly, that for more than a decade, the respondent [Boyle] has had an interest in extremist ideologies and in the complete subservience of women.”

From Smiths Falls to Afghanistan to family court: Unravelling the Bizarre Case of Joshua Boyle
 
  • #847
An aspiring journalist, Boyle had wanted to meet the Taliban, she said, so that he could “get the real story” since he felt they were misrepresented in the Western media.

She didn’t want to go to Afghanistan during their 2012 trip to Central Asia, but her husband insisted, she said, and left her with the feeling that she had no choice but to accompany him across its border.

Caitlan Coleman recounts abuse by Joshua Boyle while held hostage in Afghanistan

There seems to be a "before the charges" story, and an "after the charges" story. In an email Coleman stated that Boyle was never violent prior to the kidnapping. After the charges, she says something different.

They made a decision to travel together, and they made a mistake.

"When they were married in 2011, bureaucracy kept them living apart ... “Unaware of the difficult residence and work issues upon a Canadian and American marrying, they planned a series of lengthy travels for 2 years before settling down to family life,” Boyle’s parents said.

“In 2011, they spent 4 months travelling throughout all the countries of Central America, returning for Thanksgiving. They enjoyed staying in hostels and tents, connecting as much as possible with local people and helping out as opportunities arose.”
...

Boyle’s parents said he left with Coleman in July for a six-month trip to Russia and Central Asia. “They were to have returned in early December. We weren’t aware of Caity’s pregnancy when they left,” the Boyles said in their email. “Afghanistan was not part of their original travel plan.”
...

The Colemans were not sure how the young couple got into Afghanistan or what they intended to do there, though they described them as “tourists.”
Khadr’s Canadian ex-husband and new wife missing in Afghanistan | The Star
 
  • #848
She agreed to some of them, but she did not want to venture to where they eventually did, IIRC. I don't think he kept her in the loop but liked to keep her uninformed and dependent on him.

jmo

There's nothing in media releases from 2012 to support that belief. They were two dumb "tourists" who decided to travel to deal with complications related to marriage and residency. When they found themselves in a dangerous area, they reported this to family. Then they were kidnapped.
 
  • #849
There seems to be a "before the charges" story, and an "after the charges" story. In an email Coleman stated that Boyle was never violent prior to the kidnapping. After the charges, she says something different.

They made a decision to travel together, and they made a mistake.

"When they were married in 2011, bureaucracy kept them living apart ... “Unaware of the difficult residence and work issues upon a Canadian and American marrying, they planned a series of lengthy travels for 2 years before settling down to family life,” Boyle’s parents said.

“In 2011, they spent 4 months travelling throughout all the countries of Central America, returning for Thanksgiving. They enjoyed staying in hostels and tents, connecting as much as possible with local people and helping out as opportunities arose.”
...

Boyle’s parents said he left with Coleman in July for a six-month trip to Russia and Central Asia. “They were to have returned in early December. We weren’t aware of Caity’s pregnancy when they left,” the Boyles said in their email. “Afghanistan was not part of their original travel plan.”
...

The Colemans were not sure how the young couple got into Afghanistan or what they intended to do there, though they described them as “tourists.”
Khadr’s Canadian ex-husband and new wife missing in Afghanistan | The Star

Or “during partner abuse” and “after escaping partner abuse” but to each their own.
 
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  • #850
No reports again today from the Boyle trial
I am wondering if witnesses are testifying on the charges against the 2nd victim since a publication ban is still in place.
 
  • #851
There's nothing in media releases from 2012 to support that belief. They were two dumb "tourists" who decided to travel to deal with complications related to marriage and residency. When they found themselves in a dangerous area, they reported this to family. Then they were kidnapped.

Incorrect. Caitlan didn’t want to go to Afghanistan during their 2012 trip to Central Asia, but her husband insisted, she said, and left her with the feeling that she had no choice but to accompany him across its border.
Caitlan Coleman recounts abuse by Joshua Boyle while held hostage in Afghanistan

Remember she was VERY pregnant. He is a controlling 🤬🤬🤬 who likely controlled all their money. It would have been VERY difficult for her in this condition to leave Joshua and travel through Third World villages trying to find someone who could get her to the US Embassy to go back to the USA.
 
  • #852
If we assume that a woman is incapable of functioning as an adult and unable to make the same dumb choices as her husband, then of course it's all his fault that she traveled to Russia and the Middle East. Alternatively, if she naively and idealistically decided that it would be a great humanitarian trip (perhaps similar to previous trips they had taken) and she independently obtained a passport and travel documents, then she is responsible for her decisions. I haven't read anything about either of them being an unwilling participant in their humanitarian adventure, only that they were both seriously messed up when they returned.
They were in Asia for over a month while her uterus grew lager. She was heavily pregnant at the time Josh decided he was entering Afghanistan. In this condition in a Third World "stan" country, and with Joshua controlling their bank account (lots of evidence to show he is controlling), she was at Josh's mercy. She couldn't walk to a 7-11 and call her parents to come and get her. She couldn't jump on a gazelle in the desert and ride to the US embassy in Turkmenistan. Hitchhiking by herself as an American woman in this area could have been lethal. .

According to Caitlan, the only humanitarian work Josh intended to do was become a journalist inside Afghanistan so he could “get the real story” because he felt his buddies, the Taliban, were being misrepresented by the Western media. You remember the Taliban, right? They were the radical Muslims that openly supported Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network which murdered 3000 people on Sept 11, 2001.

An aspiring journalist, Boyle had wanted to meet the Taliban, she said, so that he could “get the real story” since he felt they were misrepresented in the Western media.
Caitlan Coleman recounts abuse by Joshua Boyle while held hostage in Afghanistan
 
  • #853
Incorrect. Caitlan didn’t want to go to Afghanistan during their 2012 trip to Central Asia, but her husband insisted, she said, and left her with the feeling that she had no choice but to accompany him across its border.
Caitlan Coleman recounts abuse by Joshua Boyle while held hostage in Afghanistan

Remember she was VERY pregnant. He is a controlling 🤬🤬🤬 who likely controlled all their money. It would have been VERY difficult for her in this condition to leave Joshua and travel through Third World villages trying to find someone who could get her to the US Embassy to go back to the USA.

There's one story from 2012 and a different story today. In 2012, her parents said Boyle and Coleman were tourists, and his family didn't know that she was pregnant. Friends and family described the couple as naive, idealistic and interested in doing humanitarian work. They traveled to avoid immigration bureaucracy. If she was incapable of making decisions in 2012, why didn't her parents make that clear when they were interviewed in 2012? Instead, they describe Coleman as a tourist.

Why is it important to describe Coleman as incompetent and unable to make decisions in 2012? That's not what her family says. Furthermore, Coleman's version of reality must now be severely distorted due to her experience in captivity. I'm sure they blamed each other many times for the mess they were in.
 
  • #854
There's one story from 2012 and a different story today. In 2012, her parents said Boyle and Coleman were tourists, and his family didn't know that she was pregnant. Friends and family described the couple as naive, idealistic and interested in doing humanitarian work. They traveled to avoid immigration bureaucracy. If she was incapable of making decisions in 2012, why didn't her parents make that clear when they were interviewed in 2012? Instead, they describe Coleman as a tourist.

Why is it important to describe Coleman as incompetent and unable to make decisions in 2012? That's not what her family says. Furthermore, Coleman's version of reality must now be severely distorted due to her experience in captivity. I'm sure they blamed each other many times for the mess they were in.
You think Caitlan's parents should have told the world while she was being held captive that she and her husband (previously married to Gitmo prisoner's sister) were something besides tourists? You think her parents should have told the world that Josh might have traveled there to assist the Taliban?

Her parents were trying to garner sympathy so someone or some country might help save their daughter! She was being held as a prisoner by a guerrilla insurgent group!
 
  • #855
If what he did to his wife had been done to a random woman off the street, we’d all be lined up to throw the book at him. Why does her being his wife make it any less horrific?

He raped and beat her. I really don’t care why he did it. There is no justification for domestic violence, and anyone who does justify it is as bad as the abuser.

IMHO (obviously)
 
  • #856
If what he did to his wife had been done to a random woman off the street, we’d all be lined up to throw the book at him. Why does her being his wife make it any less horrific?

He raped and beat her. I really don’t care why he did it. There is no justification for domestic violence, and anyone who does justify it is as bad as the abuser.

IMHO (obviously)
Exactly.

jmo
 
  • #857
What would happen in the USA if a woman reported to LE that her husband asked or demanded that she find teenagers for him to sexually exploit (Skellington forums)?
 
  • #858
Post #789

He told her to take 3 pills, meaning somewhere between 150 and 300mg.

Three pills is neither an overdose nor lethal:

"Desyrel (trazodone) is an antidepressant that increases serotonin activity in the brain. Trazodone is used for depression, anxiety, sleep and pain. Trazodone is not considered to be habit forming but should be taken exactly as prescribed by the doctor. Trazodone is available as 50 mg or 100 mg tablets.
...

It may take up to two weeks before you notice a response. A daily dose of trazodone may range from 150 to 375 milligrams."​

Trazodone (Oleptro) - Side Effects, Dosage, Interactions - Drugs
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/joshua-boyle-wife-coleman-testimony-april-2-1.5081992

There are insufficient studies to determine the effects of the drug on a fetus.

It certainly is an overdose of its prescribe for someone twice the size of the person told to take it.

Taking more of a serious drug like that than your body weight can take can be deadly.

Why is this being minimized?
 
  • #859
He would have to be really crazy to want to be kidnapped and live in a hole for 5 years, so it's very likely that he had other good intentions.

Or he was super radical and wanted to join them. But they used him instead.

Have you not heard of the thousands of radicalized westerners who dropped their nice, safe and normal lives in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Europe because they saw ISIS beheading videos and somehow thought that was a cool group to join?

IMO the dude is and always was a sociopath who decided being a terrorist would be a nice thing to do.
 
  • #860
Or he was super radical and wanted to join them. But they used him instead.

Have you not heard of the thousands of radicalized westerners who dropped their nice, safe and normal lives in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Europe because they saw ISIS beheading videos and somehow thought that was a cool group to join?

IMO the dude is and always was a sociopath who decided being a terrorist would be a nice thing to do.

He was obsessed with terrorists and terrorism long before the trip to Central Asia imo. He bragged about his contributions to terrorism/terrorist related Wikipedia pages, his first marriage has glaring red flags that can be seen from light years away... ugh just everything about this dude leads me to believe he had every intention of entering Afghanistan to become part of a terrorist organization, but even the terrorists didn’t want him. I can’t see how anyone can justify his behavior, pre or post captivity.
 
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