Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1

[TURBOTHINK]

Interesting about "mimicking emotions"

My father is a classic narcissist. At my brother's funeral he told me not to cry when I gave the eulogy because he said it would be more "effective".

He is also hated by those that are closest to him.

The statistics say about 1 in 20 people are narcissists. I personally doubt the numbers being that high, but there are a lot of them. There seems to be the "upper level" ones which are in politics, CEO's of companies, leaders..........then the "lower level" ones like Casey who resort to crime.

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

Turbo, I think that's probably the most accurate summing up I've seen. I became acquainted with the term Malignant Narcissism early on in this case (another board) and looked into the characteristics. I am particularly struck by the predatory aspect. This is precisely the sense I got listening to the tapes. I was afraid. I don't know whether they will ever get any "truth" out of her. I don't think she's equipped.

 

[softsoul]

What other ways?
In the beginning I wondered if Casey was schizophrenic but just dismissed the thought as the case progressed.

Schizophrenia is a psychosis, a personality disorder is not. Basically what this means is that the schizophrenic person has a break from reality in the form of delusions and/or hallucinations. They have no control over these symptoms. Casey is not schizophrenic and her lies are not delusional due to the fact that she has control over them IMO...she knows they are lies. Others would be aware of her psychosis because it is a thought disorder and would result in bizarre beliefs and behavior not based in reality. Casey's lies are to protect herself, manipulate others or improve her status with others. So far there is no indication that she ever experienced auditory or visual hallucinations. A schizophrenic person also experiences feelings of guilt, remorse and grief....emotions not seen in Casey. If Casey was delusional she wouldn't have hidden her delusions from others and lie to cover them up...she would not have acted "normally" with her friends.

I hope that makes sense...I tend to ramble sometimes.

 

[Baznme]

Audio recordings of interviews conducted by investigators with Casey Anthony were released Friday by the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

Day listened to the interviews and said she believes Casey Anthony's tone and responses are detached.

"It is inconsistent," Day said. "That's a detachment. She is able to push her emotions aside during these interviews. I think she knows something. I don't know if she knows where her daughter is but she knows something."

See article at this link:

http://www.local6.com/news/17468007/detail.html

 

[MD MOMMY]

I agree with that article completely..emotion and her are strangers..sad.

 

[LittleRNB]

I completely agree. The reason "I" think she is so detached is because Casey has probably done something so totally sinister with her daughter that hardly any of us could even begin to guess what she truly did with Caylee. I have felt for several weeks that she is behaving in a fashion that is almost 100% confident that LE will not find Caylee's body....and if I had to even try to think like the sociopath that Casey is, I guess I wouldn't have to stop short of guessing that Casey herself fed her dead,chloroformed, or alive daughter to an alligator and watched until she was gone for good. I am hoping that LE is thinking out of the box on this one.... Casey has done something with the body that is so beyond evil, I feel pretty strongly about that.
We had a newly diagnosed sociopath at our hospital 2 nights ago....VERY disturbing sets of behaviors. You can't believe it, even when you see it yourself.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Audio recordings of interviews conducted by investigators with Casey Anthony were released Friday by the Orange County Sheriff's Office.

Day listened to the interviews and said she believes Casey Anthony's tone and responses are detached.

"It is inconsistent," Day said. "That's a detachment. She is able to push her emotions aside during these interviews. I think she knows something. I don't know if she knows where her daughter is but she knows something."

See article at this link:

http://www.local6.com/news/17468007/detail.html

There was a second article also analyzing Casey- talk, posted in yesterday's daily updates. That one was done by a jury consultant . :blowkiss:

 

[softsoul]

I completely agree. The reason "I" think she is so detached is because Casey has probably done something so totally sinister with her daughter that hardly any of us could even begin to guess what she truly did with Caylee. I have felt for several weeks that she is behaving in a fashion that is almost 100% confident that LE will not find Caylee's body....and if I had to even try to think like the sociopath that Casey is, I guess I wouldn't have to stop short of guessing that Casey herself fed her dead,chloroformed, or alive daughter to an alligator and watched until she was gone for good. I am hoping that LE is thinking out of the box on this one.... Casey has done something with the body that is so beyond evil, I feel pretty strongly about that.
We had a newly diagnosed sociopath at our hospital 2 nights ago....VERY disturbing sets of behaviors. You can't believe it, even when you see it yourself.

I've worked with sociopaths (Anti-Social PD) and the thing that concerns me is how charming and intelligent they can appear. It is difficult for many to believe that John/Jane Doe could ever do something like that. This is a hurdle the DA must clear in order to convict as it is likely there will be at least one person on the jury who 1) will not want to believe anyone could be so cruel and/or 2) will think Casey doesn't "look" like someone who could do anything so evil. I have read several posts on this board that says Casey doesn' t look like a murderer. We (humans) want to believe we can see evil in people but in reality no one knows what a murderer looks like because they look like anyone else. They aren't all scary and ugly people on the outside.

In regard to the interview, it isn't a stretch to decipher that Casey knows something. The fact that she lies and lies again indicates that she is covering something up. Also, the fact that she shows no emotion when accused of harming her child is a big ole red flag. How would most of us respond to this accusation, especially if our child was "lost"?

 

[Sammiejam]

I completely agree. The reason "I" think she is so detached is because Casey has probably done something so totally sinister with her daughter that hardly any of us could even begin to guess what she truly did with Caylee. I have felt for several weeks that she is behaving in a fashion that is almost 100% confident that LE will not find Caylee's body....and if I had to even try to think like the sociopath that Casey is, I guess I wouldn't have to stop short of guessing that Casey herself fed her dead,chloroformed, or alive daughter to an alligator and watched until she was gone for good. I am hoping that LE is thinking out of the box on this one.... Casey has done something with the body that is so beyond evil, I feel pretty strongly about that.

I totally agree. From the very beginning the ONLY thing i believed out of her mouth was when she states "I DO NOT KNOW WHERE SHE IS."

She has been SO very cocky and sure that Caylee would not be found. I think its because she made good and sure that she would never be found.
She knows Caylee is completely gone and no one will never know what happened to her unless she talks.

 

[concentric]

Psychiatry used to define a bounds between being mentally disturbed and emotionally disturbed. Now they are used interchangeably, when they are not the same thing...

A mentally ill person has something wrong with their thought processes. It is not a learned behavior.

An emotionally disturbed have adapted to coping skills that demonstrate they do not know how to deal with their emotions properly.

IMO, what is causing sociopathy? It's always been there, just now brought on in a different form...The 'spoiled' child used to refer to a rich child who got whatever they wanted.

Spoiled now can be implied to rich, poor, middle class, etc...Years ago, you wanted a new toy, you had to do chores. Now kids are just given them because parents want their kids to have what the Jones' have, and out of guilt of not spending quality time with them...many kids grow up in homes where truth, loyalty, hard work, etc, is not a characteristic that is important. Instead, having the best material possessions is what's important.

Schools pretty much have to thank kids to do anything these days, and are even resulting to paying students to behave. At home, kids are thanked for taking out the trash, doing their homework, and things they are supposed to do. What kind of message is that sending to kids?

Years ago, it was not encouraged to talk about yourself. Let your ego lie down. Now what do we have? Parents who buy their daughter's boob jobs, and have their sons in the gym at 14.

It is pathetic, IMO, when kids who are privileged enjoy using the "ghetto" speak, gang signs, drugs and promiscuity.

 

[tiredofthis]

I totally agree. From the very beginning the ONLY thing i believed out of her mouth was when she states "I DO NOT KNOW WHERE SHE IS."

She has been SO very cocky and sure that Caylee would not be found. I think its because she made good and sure that she would never be found.
She knows Caylee is completely gone and no one will never know what happened to her unless she talks.

She comes across as far too confident in the interviews. I agree that the body will probably not be found, but they can convict even without a body if they have enough evidence.

 

[future criminologist]

what has really sealed it for me was listening to the phone call on her first day in jail. when she told her mother "I don't know where she is", she was acting like a spoiled teenager who borrows and then loses her mom's favorite sweater, not like she lost HER OWN CHILD. she almost seemed ANNOYED that everyone was asking her. and she did not even bring up Caylee until Kristina mentioned her. and even then her only concern was for herself. her friend starts crying, and Casey's reaction is, again, like that of an annoyed teenager - "god, you guys are so useless!" or whatever it was she said. it reminds me of when I was 16 or 17 and my parents would be nagging me about something.

I think a lot of people are having trouble getting over the hurdle from accident to murder BECAUSE of the way she looks - like a typical 22 year old. maybe like their own daughter. Let's not forget that Scott Peterson and Ted Bundy were both good-looking men as well. "Looking" like an upstanding member of society however is what they WANT you to see, to hide the emotionless, conscience-less person underneath. I don't know why we still think in our society that the outside is always reflective of the inside, despite evidence to the contrary. We also seem to think that women and mothers in particular are incapable of sociopathic or "evil" behavior - that we're born with a natural instinct to mother and nurture. Fact is, if you gave anyone Casey's biography of her life up until this point, with no photo, and made her genderless, I'd say 9 times out of 10 we'd all vote guilty.

 

[tiredofthis]

what has really sealed it for me was listening to the phone call on her first day in jail. when she told her mother "I don't know where she is", she was acting like a spoiled teenager who borrows and then loses her mom's favorite sweater, not like she lost HER OWN CHILD. she almost seemed ANNOYED that everyone was asking her. and she did not even bring up Caylee until Kristina mentioned her. and even then her only concern was for herself. her friend starts crying, and Casey's reaction is, again, like that of an annoyed teenager - "god, you guys are so useless!" or whatever it was she said. it reminds me of when I was 16 or 17 and my parents would be nagging me about something.

I think a lot of people are having trouble getting over the hurdle from accident to murder BECAUSE of the way she looks - like a typical 22 year old. maybe like their own daughter. Let's not forget that Scott Peterson and Ted Bundy were both good-looking men as well. "Looking" like an upstanding member of society however is what they WANT you to see, to hide the emotionless, conscience-less person underneath. I don't know why we still think in our society that the outside is always reflective of the inside, despite evidence to the contrary. We also seem to think that women and mothers in particular are incapable of sociopathic or "evil" behavior - that we're born with a natural instinct to mother and nurture. Fact is, if you gave anyone Casey's biography of her life up until this point, with no photo, and made her genderless, I'd say 9 times out of 10 we'd all vote guilty.

So true. You can't tell a book by its cover.

 

[future criminologist]

I've worked with sociopaths (Anti-Social PD) and the thing that concerns me is how charming and intelligent they can appear. We (humans) want to believe we can see evil in people but in reality no one knows what a murderer looks like because they look like anyone else. They aren't all scary and ugly people on the outside.

I'm just curious, since you have experience with this group - have you ever seen a female sociopath before? do they present any differently than a male? or are female sociopaths really really rare?

 

[one_hooah_wife]

I found this article really interesting ... and it explains KC to a tee!
I chopped it up a bit but here is the link
http://psychological.com/april_01_newsletter.htm


"(...)There are physical findings among psycopathic/sociopathic individuals which suggest a biological difference between them and others. They appear to have a weak startle response, low heart rate, low tendency (galvanic skin response) to perspire in stressful situations, and low anticipatory anxiety...they do not worry. This imperviousness to anxiety may explain why they fail to learn, since much of our learning is based upon the need to avoid future anxiety for ourselves and others."

"(...) Most do not wind up in treatment; they wind up in trouble. And for their doctors, they represent treatment dilemmas since the pain they inflict upon their victims and society as a whole makes it difficult to imagine wanting to help them. It is also clear that good outcome to treatment does not appear to be related to IQ, family history or imprisonment. Bad outcome does appear to be related to alcohol and other substance abuse."

"(...)No matter how bright, and a psychopath is often very bright, he rarely maintains a regular job, pays his debts or serves the role of a responsible parent. He repeatedly abuses, abandons, or betrays sexual partners and any children he produces."

"(...) Lying, evasiveness, feigned forgetfulness, vague and inconsistent answers about his past...his goal is partially to confuse and manipulate, but he also is indifferent to the truth. And he will lie simply for the fun of it, so much so that he eventually becomes caught. Yet even when cornered and confessing, he will offer flimsy excuses or insincere apologies and then go back to lying again."

"(...)When a psychopath complains of how others treat him, it should be remembered who the real victims are likely to be."


That last part reminds me of CA and GA and how KC may have killed Caylee to punish them!!!!!!!!

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I've worked with sociopaths (Anti-Social PD) and the thing that concerns me is how charming and intelligent they can appear.

Oh gosh, that is sooooo true. They don't even have to work at it. It's like some kind of weird inborn ability. I believe that they use that charm as a tool to very often lead a hidden parasitic existence. They bleed family and friends financially and emotionally, while outwardly appearing to be functioning members of society. They leave a financial wake like the Titanic.
And then they charmingly skip along to their next victim. :furious:


jmo

 

[softsoul]

I'm just curious, since you have experience with this group - have you ever seen a female sociopath before? do they present any differently than a male? or are female sociopaths really really rare?

No, actually I've never worked with a female who was diagnosed Antisocial, although I've seen sociopathic traits in females. Interesting that you noted that. If you look at the DSM you will see the demographics for the diagnoses. Males are over 3X more likely than females to be diagnosed with antisocial PD.

When I worked with children in a partial hospitalization program over 90% of our kids were males and diagnosed with a conduct disorder. Females tend to be diagnosed with mood disorders and, to a lesser extent, anxiety disorders. This is reflective of the way males and females are socialized in our culture. If you consider that some believe ASPD's can only mimic the emotions expected of them then it would make sense that female ASPD would be less likely to admit violent or angry feelings.

I never thought of this until you asked about female ASPD, but most of the females I remember working with who exhibited these tendencies were mothers. I recall being astounded at the coldness and lack of concern they had in regard to the health of their children. Some would lie or exaggerate their child's problems because they wanted them removed and placed in residential treatment or foster care. As the poster indicated earlier, a lot of the stories you would find hard to believe because we never expect a mother to act in this way.

Casey being a petit female will most certainly be to her advantage. Expect the DA to address this in some manner if she ever goes to trial for murder.

 

[Devorahhh]

also - can someone in the criminal justice/criminal law field inform me as to what point in the investigation a psych profile would have been done on her? do you think one has already been done? do you think that is one of the "cards" that LE is holding right now that hasn't been released? God I would LOVE to read that.

If this has been answered already, I am sorry for the duplicate, but yes a mental health evaluation was done as a condition of her release.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Interesting article about psych issues and murder trials. Chilling, but interesting...



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-md.co.browning03aug03,0,7660808.story

 

[belleyes]

I've worked with sociopaths (Anti-Social PD) and the thing that concerns me is how charming and intelligent they can appear. It is difficult for many to believe that John/Jane Doe could ever do something like that. This is a hurdle the DA must clear in order to convict as it is likely there will be at least one person on the jury who 1) will not want to believe anyone could be so cruel and/or 2) will think Casey doesn't "look" like someone who could do anything so evil. I have read several posts on this board that says Casey doesn' t look like a murderer. We (humans) want to believe we can see evil in people but in reality no one knows what a murderer looks like because they look like anyone else. They aren't all scary and ugly people on the outside.

In regard to the interview, it isn't a stretch to decipher that Casey knows something. The fact that she lies and lies again indicates that she is covering something up. Also, the fact that she shows no emotion when accused of harming her child is a big ole red flag. How would most of us respond to this accusation, especially if our child was "lost"?

Softsoul you are a "wise soul". I too have worked with clients with ASPD and children with RAD ( reactive attachment disorder). Part of the diagnosis is the cunning, superficial engaging,(fake) b/x. It irritates me b/c so many people dissmiss the "red flags" b/c they just don't want to think anyone would really be capable of such horrific acts. The sadistic things you see on t.v. and think are rare are much more common than most people think.