Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

[hmmmisee]

I have a question about AB's whereabouts on those days. Has anyone said that he has an alibi? Isn't it possible that he was using her phone or at the very least, in the car? When my dh and I are out and about, he drives and I have my phone. His family calls on my phone and he makes calls from it. He has his own, but when we're out, we just use mine. So, if we were investigated, all pings would come from my phone, even though we're always together and I may not be the one using it.

 

[diphi]

I have a question about AB's whereabouts on those days. Has anyone said that he has an alibi? Isn't it possible that he was using her phone or at the very least, in the car? When my dh and I are out and about, he drives and I have my phone. His family calls on my phone and he makes calls from it. He has his own, but when we're out, we just use mine. So, if we were investigated, all pings would come from my phone, even though we're always together and I may not be the one using it.

MOO

We're similar. He'll be the "driver" and I'll be the "navigator" which includes making phone calls, gps, giving directions, etc. You know, all the other things a person shouldn't do if they're driving.

I don't think the lack of pings from his phone will be a significant issue in the long-run grand scheme of things. There is too much other info to draw from.

IMO

 

[westsidefox64]

MOO

We're similar. He'll be the "driver" and I'll be the "navigator" which includes making phone calls, gps, giving directions, etc. You know, all the other things a person shouldn't do if they're driving.

I don't think the lack of pings from his phone will be a significant issue in the long-run grand scheme of things. There is too much other info to draw from.

IMO

I think his phone pings could very well be a big part in this. If his phone pings are from the house he could have left it behind. If they come from work related areas it could very well mean he wasnt there and knew nothing of what was going on. JMO

 

[tlcya]

It is interesting to me that I did not see any chainsaws listed in warrants, either sought or taken. I did not see any tools, but perhaps that is because tools were owned by employer not the Bakers so no warrant would be necessary?

I am wondering why nothing that would appear to be a tool used in dismemberment appears on warrants. Also wondering if any of EB's other known associates own or have access to tools/implements that could have been used in dismemberment.

Thirdly, I wonder if LE has checked into chainsaw rentals from hardware stores and equipment companies under names of known associates of EB during the crucial time period.

 

[westsidefox64]

It is interesting to me that I did not see any chainsaws listed in warrants, either sought or taken. I did not see any tools, but perhaps that is because tools were owned by employer not the Bakers so no warrant would be necessary?

I am wondering why nothing that would appear to be a tool used in dismemberment appears on warrants. Also wondering if any of EB's other known associates own or have access to tools/implements that could have been used in dismemberment.

Thirdly, I wonder if LE has checked into chainsaw rentals from hardware stores and equipment companies under names of known associates of EB during the crucial time period.

I seem to remember in one one of the warrants they took a knife and sheath. I also remember a picture of a hole that had something enclosed in a bag that highly resembled a chainsaw shape. We also have to keep in mind one warrant is still sealed. JMO

 

[wenwe4]

I find this very interesting. The legal analyst is saying this whole case against EB is coming down to whether or not EB was truthful about the COD being "natural causes". Tony Scheer (legal analyst) believes EB already lied about AB disposing of Zahra's remains, as her cell pings prove she was in those disposal areas, but AB's do not. He goes on further to call Zahra's death a "murder" instead of "alleged murder" and says if EB lied in her original depo, the deal she made with prosecutors for no death penalty could be thrown out. The wording he chose (murder) was quite striking to me. See approx. 1:30 of 2:14 of video @ the link below.

http://www.wsoctv.com/video/26380794/index.html

 

[Shear22]

It is interesting to me that I did not see any chainsaws listed in warrants, either sought or taken. I did not see any tools, but perhaps that is because tools were owned by employer not the Bakers so no warrant would be necessary?

I am wondering why nothing that would appear to be a tool used in dismemberment appears on warrants. Also wondering if any of EB's other known associates own or have access to tools/implements that could have been used in dismemberment.

Thirdly, I wonder if LE has checked into chainsaw rentals from hardware stores and equipment companies under names of known associates of EB during the crucial time period.

I was wondering the same thing. With all the information that EB gave detectives I would assume that they asked her and she told them what they allegedly used for the dismemberment.

 

[LCoastMom]

It is interesting to me that I did not see any chainsaws listed in warrants, either sought or taken. I did not see any tools, but perhaps that is because tools were owned by employer not the Bakers so no warrant would be necessary?

I am wondering why nothing that would appear to be a tool used in dismemberment appears on warrants. Also wondering if any of EB's other known associates own or have access to tools/implements that could have been used in dismemberment.

Thirdly, I wonder if LE has checked into chainsaw rentals from hardware stores and equipment companies under names of known associates of EB during the crucial time period.

We also have the very important piece of evidence that Dub's turned over to LE - if I were trying to prove my (fictional) client's willingness to help LE, to save my client from the DP - I would probably point them in the direction of the tool or implement that caused the death or in this case the tool that she (may have) claimed someone else used for dismemberment. It would be the one thing to really get their attention. When LE apparently had nothing to go on. (I still can't believe Dub's or her agent breached a crime scene and removed evidence - has she been studying at the Jose Skool for Duhfence Attorneys?)

So now we have heard EB claimed Z was raped / possibly received a head injury and that she was sick for two weeks before dying from an illness. Gotta wonder if these very different accounts were before or after her deal with the DA and if after they were after, if they resulted in a deal breaker. I don't believe a word out of her mouth - she is looking to save her sorry azz.

I'm so glad that the temperatures were already fairly low when the search started (remember the miserable cold and rain during the searches) - there was hopefully plenty of evidence for LE to work with to put the guilty away until they die (one way or another).

Thanks for starting this thread!

 

[LCoastMom]

I think his phone pings could very well be a big part in this. If his phone pings are from the house he could have left it behind. If they come from work related areas it could very well mean he wasnt there and knew nothing of what was going on. JMO

If his phone was left somewhere while he was out and about, therefor not using it, by the time LE received it there would be no information to go on. An unused phone pings are only saved for 24 hours, then purged. So IMO at this point his phone not pinging in the dump areas doesn't clear him. We know he gave several different accounts of when he last saw Z, 100%... out of bed - is it possible it had really been over 2 weeks prior to the 911 call? That will be problematic!

This brings up an interesting question, who was EB speaking / texting to, while she was out in the "dump" areas?

 

[SherlockHomey]

)

So now we have heard EB claimed Z was raped / possibly received a head injury and that she was sick for two weeks before dying from an illness.

EB did not claim Zahra was raped. Someone else came forth to say that SY had told them that.

 

[SherlockHomey]

If his phone was left somewhere while he was out and about, therefor not using it, by the time LE received it there would be no information to go on. An unused phone pings are only saved for 24 hours, then purged. So IMO at this point his phone not pinging in the dump areas doesn't clear him. We know he gave several different accounts of when he last saw Z, 100%... out of bed - is it possible it had really been over 2 weeks prior to the 911 call? That will be problematic!

This brings up an interesting question, who was EB speaking / texting to, while she was out in the "dump" areas?

BBM

If pings are purged after 24 hours, how did LE determine weeks later where EB's cell pings were located on Sept 25th? I am just asking. I don't know anything about pings or pongs.

 

[lauriej]

BBM

If pings are purged after 24 hours, how did LE determine weeks later where EB's cell pings were located on Sept 25th? I am just asking. I don't know anything about pings or pongs.

..i am "ping-pong" challenged too SH, but they 'pinged' kc anthony , and others, back months..

 

[Flakes]

...So now we have heard EB claimed Z was raped / possibly received a head injury ...

EB did not claim Zahra was raped. Someone else came forth to say that SY had told them that.

The warrant states:

"On 10/14/2010, Lt. Becky Weatherman of the Burke County Sherriff's Office received a tip from a source known to this affiant. The source completed a written statement and stated the following. He was told two days ago by JM (who received the information from his sister, BM) that the little girl (Zahra) had been at a block house on Burke County Road with a subject named J and another subject named S. The written statement states that "S" had told BM that he had done something very bad and needed to leave town. It further stated that when the mother came back, the little girl had blood on her private area and legs and they (S and J) raped her. The statement indicated that "S" and the mother (EB) had some kind of relationship. In the statement, the source states that he asked JM if they killed the little girl and that JM stated they might have hit her in the head."

This is from a sworn statement on 10/15/2010, page 3 of 4 marked Attachment #2.. You can view the full statement with full names and address of the alleged offense here: http://www.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.com/2010/11/rape-claim-investigated-in-zahra-baker-murder-case/

 

[LCoastMom]

EB did not claim Zahra was raped. Someone else came forth to say that SY had told them that.

Ah, you are right, my bad - I thought the person who told LE said she got the info from EB?

BBM

If pings are purged after 24 hours, how did LE determine weeks later where EB's cell pings were located on Sept 25th? I am just asking. I don't know anything about pings or pongs.

While the phone is in use the pings are kept - if not in use the phone still pings but the pings are purged after 24 hours. That's why I wondered who EB was talking / texting to during the times she was at the dump sites.

I learned this from the KC Anthony case (I'll double check) ICA may as well have drawn maps for LE, she had her phone in use so much there were very few waking hours that LE wasn't able to plot exactly were she was. A couple of exceptions - the week Caylee "went missing" there were some nights when ICA left TL's apt around midnight (give or take) and we know she didn't go home - the working theory is she slept in her car, fairly close to the apt, but it is just a theory.

 

[Synaptic Cliff]

This brings up an interesting question, who was EB speaking / texting to, while she was out in the "dump" areas?

IIRC weren't a couple phone record warrants issued *after* they checked EB's phone records? (I'm thinking SY and AY? But I could be mixed up..) Maybe that's who she was in contact with?? --Just a thought..

 

[tlcya]

That's what I was thinking as well Synaptic.

I have been reseaching forensics on tool mark identification. I wonder at where that tool is now and if it is locatable. I wonder, if as EB tells LE, AB did the dismemberment, where is the tool? and why hasn't EB given that up to LE as further proof to nail AB? She is royally pizzed that he is walking free. You would think she would have given that info up and led LE to that tool.

Interesting that she hasn't.

 

[SherlockHomey]

That's what I was thinking as well Synaptic.

I have been reseaching forensics on tool mark identification. I wonder at where that tool is now and if it is locatable. I wonder, if as EB tells LE, AB did the dismemberment, where is the tool? and why hasn't EB given that up to LE as further proof to nail AB? She is royally pizzed that he is walking free. You would think she would have given that info up and led LE to that tool.

Interesting that she hasn't.

October 15th - SW submitted for EB phone - ..6664

November 29th - SW issued for ..4662 (SY) and ..0049 (AY)

So it seems to me, they checked EB phone records and then with that information they got a SW for the others, one including AY.

 

[tlcya]

I am thinking that it was never Zahra they put through the woodchipper but the dogs did hit on it because they attempted to shred the clothing worn during dismemberment in the chipper and then set fire to them. The clothes would have to have human blood on them somwhere.

I think an ax or a chainsaw may have been used. I think this may also have something to do with why they took sections of floor. Perhaps there are tool markings in the floor they can compare to the bones. I only hope they can ascertain TOD and COD with enough certainty that we can convict someone(s) for this attrocious act.

 

[dar107]

I am thinking that it was never Zahra they put through the woodchipper but the dogs did hit on it because they attempted to shred the clothing worn during dismemberment in the chipper and then set fire to them. The clothes would have to have human blood on them somwhere.

I think an ax or a chainsaw may have been used. I think this may also have something to do with why they took sections of floor. Perhaps there are tool markings in the floor they can compare to the bones. I only hope they can ascertain TOD and COD with enough certainty that we can convict someone(s) for this attrocious act.

BBM

Wow great point you made, and what an eerie feeling it gave me. IIRC the cut section of floor looks about the size that would fit that theory.

 

[Capri]

Abstract:  In response to the unexpected paucity of blood/tissue spatter at the site where a body of an adult woman was dismembered by an electric chainsaw, we dismembered two large pig carcasses with a small electric chainsaw in a controlled environment. These experiments demonstrated first that a large carcass could be easily dismembered by a small electric chainsaw. When the chainsaw bar is held parallel to the ground the majority of the blood and tissue is deposited directly beneath the saw and bar and very little elsewhere. If the discharge chute of the saw however is not oriented directly at the ground, larger amounts of blood and tissue may be sprayed on lateral surfaces or deposited some distance from the chainsaw. The characteristic striations created on the surface of wood as it is cut by a chainsaw can also be found on bony surfaces cut by a chainsaw.


I can't get past this.

Wondering about the striations that a chainsaw would leave, and the mention of markings in the tub. Although I'm not convinced a chainsaw was the tool used quite yet.