Cell Phone Activity Discussion Thread #2

[matou]

We've seen how small town news stations have reported inacurate information in the past.

Going with local KSHB (NBC affiliate here in Kansas City), they are reporting JI returned hom from work at 4am.

Mainstream ABC also reported 4am.

NBC 41:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...lice-search-area-near-lisa-irwin's-home-again

ABC (comment in photo)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/slideshow/search-missing-baby-lisa-irwin-14691681

The Branson, Missouri station in the timeline says 3:30am.

WPTV in West Palm Beach, FL reported 2:30am.
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...nce-of-baby-lisa-irwin,-according-to-a-source

I'm sticking with the 4am accounts.

Yeah, what's going on with these times? Huffington Post is using 3:45 am from another Kansas City media source:

Police have been able to verify that Irwin was at the Starbucks until about 3:30 a.m. and nothing unusual occurred.

Irwin returned to his home about 3:45 a.m. Oct. 4 and immediately noticed that the front door was unlocked and the lights were on. He discovered the window to the computer room was open and attempted to close it but was unable to do so.


and r.e. cell phones...

This discovery sent the couple into a panic. The family's three cell phones were also missing from a counter. Irwin dashed to Brando's house demanding to know whether she had Lisa. She said she did not and asked why Lisa would be there instead of her own home.

As Bradley crumpled to the floor in a heap and sobbed, Irwin called 911 via his work cell phone.



edited to 10 % of article, thank you very much for educating me
There is nothing posted here to indicate that the KC Media source is not credible or "small town". Never insinuated by me, my 2 cents.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction

 

[In da Middle]

Priority call such as this are never delayed, it's relayed and dispatched when they receive the call. Non injury accident calls are delayed, theft from vehicle calls are delayed, stolen auto reports are delayed, noise disturbances are delayed etc. A couple of other incidents that are relayed and dispatched without delay include shootings, armed robberies, stabbings, injury accidents, and without a doubt kidnapping.

But it still stands that the initial call to 911 started PRIOR to 4:04. They are going to dispatch AFTER they get all of the basic info needed to even call in the dispatch.

 

[Nixie]

I don't think 19 minutes is long enough to kill a baby, hid the body, knock on doors and call 911. Even with a car and 30 minutes and DB being the killer he would have to run inside, take the baby and hide her well enough she wasn't found (I am pretty sure LE was keeping close watch so I doubt they would have been able to move the body) Then make himself appear panicked run and knock on doors and call 911. I don't see how JI was involved with the information we have. I don't see how he could have killed her before he went to work. a neighbor seen her- why would she lie about that? The kids say they seen her- even if they are not the most reliable witnesses DB and her neighbor were seen outside that night so its not like they were prepping the children for LE's questions all night. I don't see how JI could be involved. Even if I am on the fence about DB I can see why people think she is guilty with JI I just don't see any evidence he is and a whole lot of evidence he isn't.

 

[imamaze]

This is for the cell phone activity discussion, lets keep discussions in the right threads, easier to find.

Ima

 

[DeAnn]

But it still stands that the initial call to 911 started PRIOR to 4:04. They are going to dispatch AFTER they get all of the basic info needed to even call in the dispatch.

What IDM said.

And if you've ever called KCPD 911.....chances you are on hold for at least a minute. maybe 2. I've never called 911 and not be on hold at least 30 seconds. (whole nother discussion).

And do we know 4:04 am. was to the initial officer or to the extra officers responding to the scene.

Bottom line? KCPD and FBI did not believe JI was involved in his daughter's initial disappearance (now coverup is another matter) because he did not act like it while at Starbucks and did not have time....and apparently his reaction was seen as genuine at the time by eyewitnesses.

No one has ever told me this but if JI reacted like most people would....he came home.....found his wife passed out drunk with a kitten in the bed and the lights on on a school night after he has worked hours and hours and is exhausted. And no one has ever out and out said this but my guess is he abruptly woke her up and proceeded to rip her a new one....thus a slight delay before realizing Lisa was gone.

Now granted this is a couple that discussed stuff on national TV that most folks wouldn't but I doubt he wanted to publicly admit...he was yelling at his drunk wife for her irresponsible behavior...and if they were arguing and realizing that Lisa wasn't crying is probably why they realized she was missing.

That's my .02

And KC media is a 31st media market. It's not "small town."

And terms and conditions of this board say you do not copy more than 10 percent of an article without their permission.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152763"]Copyright - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Whisperer]

BBM Why not just leave the phones at home IF they were disposing of Baby Lisa?

That would be the logical thing to do. During a crime, most people don't use logic. That's what makes many crimes difficult to solve.

I don't think DB would go anywhere w/o a working phone. If she did this by herself, even more so. I can't imagine her going to the bedroom w/o one, just a gut feeling I have. She had to leave ALL phones were left out in the open so they could be "stolen".

 

[hambirg]

Wow, I guess I should have prefaced my last comment with, I don't think JI killed BL. My point was in responding to a comment that made it sound like it took time to kill a baby. . .when in reality it can be as quickly as a 5-10 tragic seconds. That's all I was getting at.

With that in mind, back to the phones. DB potentially had 5 hours from the time she went inside til the time JI came home. . .that's taking into account access in and out from the back of the house. That's a long time. I'm still inclined to think she had help. . .and I think that she had help is the reason those phones are missing. . .or had to go missing. As far as we know, DB could still receive calls. . .they were on restricted service. The fact that JI's supposed call didn't go through proves nothing other than the phone wasn't available. . .maybe off during "adult time". . maybe out of range. The last one happens to me in our computer room for some reason.

MOO

 

[Whisperer]

I agree Hambirg. It doesn't take long to kill and it doesn't take long to dispose. DB stated only ONE cell was broken. She had her GP's phone...that was able to be used. No doubt it was.

I also agree she may not have been alone. I see her brother as the one she would lean on. She could meet somebody out back and go in that direction though the dogs would bark. Lisa could have been disposed earlier in the day on any of the runs. Somebody (her brother) could have taken her out in a bag while DB was on the stoop.

Maybe she was put in a dumpster in a different neighborhood/city.

 

[cityslick]

That would be the logical thing to do. During a crime, most people don't use logic. That's what makes many crimes difficult to solve.

I don't think DB would go anywhere w/o a working phone. If she did this by herself, even more so. I can't imagine her going to the bedroom w/o one, just a gut feeling I have. She had to leave ALL phones were left out in the open so they could be "stolen".

She knew she didn't have a 'working' phone if she made the 11:57 call attempt.

 

[hambirg]

She knew she didn't have a 'working' phone if she made the 11:57 call attempt.

Not necessarily. . .the phones were red lined and she could still receive calls. I think she could have been expecting to hear from JI regarding when he was going to be home.

MOO

 

[cityslick]

Not necessarily. . .the phones were red lined and she could still receive calls. I think she could have been expecting to hear from JI regarding when he was going to be home.

MOO

The question is (and I don't think we'll ever find out the answer unless it's proven she did in fact do the vm checks) is did she know that fact (that she could receive calls)?

What I'm curious about is if she really didn't know when he was coming home, I would of expected her to be checking vm much earlier than 3:20am if he was originally expected to be home at 10:30pm.

 

[Elley Mae]

Do we really know how long he was in the house before he woke deborah?

I wonder could the attempts with the phone have been JI? (vm's)

Did JI know that the phones were in the process of being turned off? he had work phone

Did deborah tell JI that she needed his phone to do the transfers of #'s not telling the truth about turn off.

I hope LE find the phones.

 

[cityslick]

Do we really know how long he was in the house before he woke deborah?we don't, we only know there was 20 minutes roughly between him getting home and calling 911

I wonder could the attempts with the phone have been JI? (vm's)I don't think this is possible. The phones pinged within a 1/3rd radius (assuming that fact is correct, but it's all we got) and during the times that they pinged, JI was at Starbucks, way beyond the 1/3rd radius. LE would of been all over that if they saw the pings were coming from the area where he was working.


Did JI know that the phones were in the process of being turned off? he had work phoneHe didn't have his personal phone, which was at the house. He had his work phone which obviously would be on a seperate company plan. This is the the confusion about the statement that JI's call to DB went to a 'not available' message and IMO if true, had nothing to do with the phone he was calling from.

Did deborah tell JI that she needed his phone to do the transfers of #'s not telling the truth about turn off.According to the father, she was transferring numbers on Sunday, but the reason given wasn't because they were restricted, it was because the phone itself was faulty (speaker not working, etc)

I hope LE find the phones.

Answers in bold

 

[Whisperer]

Who benefits from the phones not being found? I say the owners of the phones.

Why would an intruder want their cell phones? He/she wouldn't. It is unnecessary..and could be trouble. An intruder would not take them if coming to steal a baby. Let's get real here! The risk of taking the phones is high and could be tracked..why bother? Why walk around with THREE phones and a half-naked baby during the night.

It makes no sense and it didn't happen as we are led to believe.

 

[cityslick]

Who benefits from the phones not being found? I say the owners of the phones.

Why would an intruder want their cell phones? He/she wouldn't. It is unnecessary..and could be trouble. An intruder would not take them if coming to steal a baby. Let's get real here! The risk of taking the phones is high and could be tracked..why bother? Why walk around with THREE phones and a half-naked baby during the night.

It makes no sense and it didn't happen as we are led to believe.

People steal phones all the time, both live and dead ones. Most robberies are crimes of opportunity, you break into a house and take the first thing that you see that's valuable. The phones would qualify in this case.

 

[Sparklin]

Who benefits from the phones not being found? I say the owners of the phones.

Why would an intruder want their cell phones? He/she wouldn't. It is unnecessary..and could be trouble. An intruder would not take them if coming to steal a baby. Let's get real here! The risk of taking the phones is high and could be tracked..why bother? Why walk around with THREE phones and a half-naked baby during the night.

It makes no sense and it didn't happen as we are led to believe.

In your opinion I presume?

 

[highflyer]

Who benefits from the phones not being found? I say the owners of the phones.

Why would an intruder want their cell phones? He/she wouldn't. It is unnecessary..and could be trouble. An intruder would not take them if coming to steal a baby. Let's get real here! The risk of taking the phones is high and could be tracked..why bother? Why walk around with THREE phones and a half-naked baby during the night.

It makes no sense and it didn't happen as we are led to believe.

So if I say it makes no sense but it did happen as if we are led to believe, are we both spouting pronouncements that neither one of us can back up? :wink:

 

[hambirg]

I just want to add one thing. . .because it is said here as if it is fact. .and it's NOT. We do not know if JI's phone was at home. I still wonder about that. . .why would he leave his personal phone at home? It doesn't seem logical to me. . .so therefore, I'm not assuming it's a fact just because DB and/or JI said it was true.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I just want to add one thing. . .because it is said here as if it is fact. .and it's NOT. We do not know if JI's phone was at home. I still wonder about that. . .why would he leave his personal phone at home? It doesn't seem logical to me. . .so therefore, I'm not assuming it's a fact just because DB and/or JI said it was true.

There were three cell phones taken. One was Debbies broken phone, one was a borrowed phone and the third was?

 

[Nixie]

I just want to add one thing. . .because it is said here as if it is fact. .and it's NOT. We do not know if JI's phone was at home. I still wonder about that. . .why would he leave his personal phone at home? It doesn't seem logical to me. . .so therefore, I'm not assuming it's a fact just because DB and/or JI said it was true.

bbm if they were restricted and he had a work phone why wouldn't he just use that phone and keep his phone at home? Makes sense to me it would be left if he couldn't use it to make calls anyways, I am sure people important to him had his work phone number and knew how to contact him that way.

On another note I wonder if DB or JI had a pre paid cell for emergency's. I know my husband put one in my car in case my phone was stolen/lost and something happened. If they were doing something shady or contacting people for things they wouldn't want traced its something that is a possibility. I wonder if MW received any odd phone calls around the time of Lisa's disappearance. I guess she might not even know if it was a phone used by a lot of people.