Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[brookeychook]

So do you...If I may say.... :/

Did I hit a nerve there hay Parkie?

 

[J35]

I don't know whether the WA police in 1996 or 1997 had the technical ability to be able to triangulate mobile phone usage with particular cell towers.

Based on the inquest into McMahon disappearance, they used best signal=geographically closest tower data. It was used to show that Morey was involved in her disappearance. It's available online.

 

[papertrail]

Based on the inquest into McMahon disappearance, they used best signal=geographically closest tower data. It was used to show that Morey was involved in her disappearance. It's available online.

I am fully aware of the WA police use of cell tower triangulation regarding the McMahon case but she disappeared in November 2000; Claremont we are talking 1996 and 1997 with mobile phone technology in its' infancy.

 

[Sutton]

I don't know if WA police employed triangulation in the mid-90s.

There may not have even been enough towers to triangulate someone within a small area (need historical tower locations to determine).

 

[Sutton]

Posting this old article because of similarities to previous local assaults.

The offenders were estimated to be 23 and 25 in 2006, so they cannot be CSK.

Clubber: I was raped, page 13

https://www.postnewspapers.com.au/crimeandjustice/pdf/20060506.pdf

 

[Sutton]

Some posters have expressed doubts that Karrakatta is actually related to the other CSK assaults, but for the sake of discussion, I thought I'd ask what everyone thinks about the description of her escape.

It was widely reported that she was 'violently raped' and 'left for dead.' A rape victim is not usually described as left for dead unless there are grievous injuries or they are left in a location that will likely cause their death.

Wouldn't most people be able to just walk out of Karrakatta Cemetery (even if it took a few hours)? Does the description indicate the rapist may have tried to kill her? Or was the rape so viscous that death was a possibility?

There is still the confusion about if the Karrakatta survivor was released, if she escaped, or if she was actually driven to a carpark near the hospital (reportedly announced on local news station).

I wish we had her statement of the attack (not trying to find entertainment in someone else's suffering, would just like to know some general details).

 

[*Indigo*]

Hi Sutton,
Good post regarding the Karrakatta assault, I had a lot of similar questions in mind about it. The reports are a bit confusing.
I remember one saying the victim ran to a nearby hospital with a ligature still around their neck but then other reports say they were left for dead.
That the victim was driven to hospital is news to me.


Just found online news article from October 16th 2015 with audio snippets from "6PRD@Mornings with Gary Adshead" radio program with Gary Adshead interviewing both former Detective Terry Dobson and Journalist Bret Christin. In the interview with Bret Christin he is asked what were the similarities between this assault and the Claremont killings and he says that "it was identical to what's known about the claremont attacks".


Bret Christin says - "The young lady, a 17 year old girl was walking to her friends place on Gugeri street and that house was opposite the Claremont showground and she never made it. She got as far as the showground subway and a man grabbed her and put something over her head, tied her up with (what) she said telephone cable and bundled her into the back of what she said was a commercial vehicle and drove her deep into the cemetery where she was sexually assaulted."

The interviewer asks - "And did she break free? or was released? or what happened next, i mean obviously she was not a murder victim of this person"

Bret Christin says "No, she told police she didn't see the man, didn't have a description of him, she was let go with no clothes and ran to Hollywood Hospital which is on the other side of the cemetery"

More questions in interview, very informative, worth having a listen to both for sure. In the first interview with the Detective Terry Dobson he says that this type of incident was not uncommon at the time, he mentions another abduction and sexual assault that involved a girl being taken from outside a cinema and was perpetrated by two Chilean Men who the police put under a lot of surveillance. He was heading that investigation. He said that a number of officers believed that the Karrakatta assault was the beginning of the Claremont case.


Audio on the bottom of the page first is the interview with detective Terry Dobson.
The second audio link is the interview with Brett Christin what I have transcribed in regards to the crime starts at 2:18 mark.

http://www.6pr.com.au/news/rape-case-link-to-claremont-serial-killings-20151016-gkavzn.html


Also Bret Christin says "whats really chilling is when the Police began this cold case review in 2004 they also said they would be examining 16 disappearances of women"

 

[Parkie]

Indigo; The Post reporter is Bret Christian. <modsnip>

 

[Sutton]

...Also Bret Christin says "whats really chilling is when the Police began this cold case review in 2004 they also said they would be examining 16 disappearances of women"

RSBM. Who would be on the list? Also is the list confined to WA? I know police can't investigate disappearances from other jurisdictions, but the quote could mean police will be examining 16 disappearances it to see if they are related to the CSK.

1. Sarah Spiers
2. Julie Cutler
3. Sarah McMahon (Donald Morey)
4. Hayley Dodd (alleged Francis Wark)
5. Rachel Campbell (Richard Dorrough)

 

[silver tongue]

kerry tate age 23 22december1979 murdered
lia mott age 12 last seen in collie 1980 missing
sharon fulleton last seen east perth railway station 1986 missing
cheryl renwick age 33 disapeared from south perth 1986
sally greenham last seen adelaide terrace perth 1987
kelly turner 18 murdered body found canningdam1991
randina dujkid 14 last seen north beach 1992
cariad slater 41 last seen perth city
julie cuttler22 1988 missing
babara western found in bush land canning dam1992
petronella albert 21 missing broome 1992
lisa govan 28 missing kalgoolie 1999
debra anderson body found in front seat of burnt out car 2000
hope this helps

 

[papertrail]

RSBM. Who would be on the list? Also is the list confined to WA? I know police can't investigate disappearances from other jurisdictions, but the quote could mean police will be examining 16 disappearances it to see if they are related to the CSK.

1. Sarah Spiers
2. Julie Cutler
3. Sarah McMahon (Donald Morey)
4. Hayley Dodd (alleged Francis Wark)
5. Rachel Campbell (Richard Dorrough)

Some of the information that Silver Tongue supplied is not complete or accurate. Here is an accurate date order list; very spine chilling. I've included the Birnie abductions because it shows something as some missing victims immediately prior had connection to area where Catherine Birnie was living.

25/8/1969 Jean Climas ex Mosman Park missing. initially from Vic. May have taken on new identity.
22/9/1969 Anne Zapelli ex Geraldton although from Morowa. policeman boyfriend. missing walking home from drive-in theatre. SA pedophile in area at time death bed confession.
9/12/1975 Glenyce McGowan ex Nunaturra camping ground traveling to Darwin ex Parmelia.
28/12/1979 Kerryn Tate missing found at Boulder Rock. Found deceased by fire (?) May be occult connection as she had connection to group.
21/3/1980 Sophie Woodman (traveling last known in Vic with young girlfriend who left and went to Qld, Sophie's homebase WA)
13/9/1980 Annette Deverell ex Mandurah outside post office last seen talking to man in yellow panelvan; headless corpse located 7/7/1982 Waroona Dam.
30/10/1980 Lisa Mott ex Collie missing; last seen talking to man in yellow panel van. Birnie known to have been in Collie at time.
18/3/1986 Sharon Fulton ex East Perth Railway Station missing dropped off by husband. Maybe domestic involvement.
26/5/1986 Cheryl Renwick ex South Perth worked at psych hostel Northbridge. Could man named Masters be responsible?
27/8/1986 Barbara Western ex Vic Park, located 19/3/1991 (cemetery record) Spectacles (south of Perth). Headless torso in roadside ditch
6/10/1986 - 10/11/1986 5 x Birnie abductions; 4 murders 1 survivor.
20/8/1987 Sally Greenham ex Adelaide Terrace after alighting taxi. Had traveled from Geraldton (not in taxi), missing.
20/6/1988 Julie Cutler ex Parmelia Hilton hotel Perth after staff function. Car found in surf at Cottesloe 2 days later. Missing.
29/6/1991 Kerry Turner ex Victoria Park dropped of by taxi outside Cafe L'Affair (spelling ?), on way to Armadale. Witnessed getting into car which traveled east towards Midland. Had been to Pinocchio's Nightclub in Perth.
16/5/1992 Radina Djukich ex North Beach. (shockingly) had been handed to known pedophile through court system. Missing. Pedophile subsequently convicted of murder of woman in following year.
13/7/1992 Cariad Slater missing 67a Rosewood Ave Woodlands. Solved man charged and convicted; case going through appeal process. Located in yard he lived in and address where taxi had dropped her off at.
7/10/1993 Alex Turner brother of Kerry Turner (missing 23/6/1991) murdered in homophobic attack.
27/1/1996 Sarah Spiers ex Claremont; missing
9/6/1996 Jane Rimmer missing ex Claremont, murdered located Wellard 3/8/1996
15/1/1997 Sara-Lee Davey ex Broome, missing. Man charged with murder Richard Dorrough 2015.
15/3/1997 Ciara Glennon ex Claremont, missing. Located murdered Eglinton 3/4/1997
9/11/1998 Lisa Brown ex Northbridge (street worker). Missing.
28/4/1999 Petronella Albert ex Broome. Could Dorrough be responsible?
29/7/1999 Hayley Dodd ex Badgingarra missing. Wark and 'one other' alleged murderers; one other now deceased suicide.
8/10/1999 Lisa Govan ex Kalgoorlie missing. Wark may be involved.
25/1/1999 Deborah Anderson ex Woodvale. Located Midland area deceased in driver's seat of burnt vehicle.
8/11/2000 Sarah McMahon ex Claremont work place lived with parents Parkerville; missing. Morey believed responsible. Coroner's inquest outcome.
15/11/2001 Susan Christie ex Daglish, missing. Ex husband charged and convicted, successful technical-based appeal quashed sentence.
18/3/2002 Christine Schipp ex Middle Swan. Prostitute. missing, located 6/5/2003 (cemetery record)
25/3/2003 Darrylyn Ugle. Street worker ex Northbridge. Located at Farrell Grove Mundaring Weir, ligature used Morey believed responsible. Matching forensics too circumstantial.
1/6/2003 Judy M'ringu ex Africa, call girl missing ex Bentley.
3/5/2010 Iveta Mitchell missing ex residence Parmelia. Had worked at hotel near Mundaring.

 

[J35]

@ Sutton and papertrail

Will you two be posting your timestamp information soon? I was going to wait until you both had posted but I got tired of waiting.. sorry

 

[Bartholemeus]

3 more missing women;

1997 Albany WA 25 Peta Weber Anglo
1995 Kardinya WA 20 Karen Skinner Anglo
1992 Armadale WA 46 Debra Donachy Anglo

 

[silver tongue]

im prettysure karen skinner has been located

 

[elastic]

Some of the information that Silver Tongue supplied is not complete or accurate. Here is an accurate date order list; very spine chilling. I've included the Birnie abductions because it shows something as some missing victims immediately prior had connection to area where Catherine Birnie was living.

25/8/1969 Jean Climas ex Mosman Park missing. initially from Vic. May have taken on new identity.
22/9/1969 Anne Zapelli ex Geraldton although from Morowa. policeman boyfriend. missing walking home from drive-in theatre. SA pedophile in area at time death bed confession.
9/12/1975 Glenyce McGowan ex Nunaturra camping ground traveling to Darwin ex Parmelia.
28/12/1979 Kerryn Tate missing found at Boulder Rock. Found deceased by fire (?) May be occult connection as she had connection to group.
21/3/1980 Sophie Woodman (traveling last known in Vic with young girlfriend who left and went to Qld, Sophie's homebase WA)
13/9/1980 Annette Deverell ex Mandurah outside post office last seen talking to man in yellow panelvan; headless corpse located 7/7/1982 Waroona Dam.
30/10/1980 Lisa Mott ex Collie missing; last seen talking to man in yellow panel van. Birnie known to have been in Collie at time.
18/3/1986 Sharon Fulton ex East Perth Railway Station missing dropped off by husband. Maybe domestic involvement.
26/5/1986 Cheryl Renwick ex South Perth worked at psych hostel Northbridge. Could man named Masters be responsible?
27/8/1986 Barbara Western ex Vic Park, located 19/3/1991 (cemetery record) Spectacles (south of Perth). Headless torso in roadside ditch
6/10/1986 - 10/11/1986 5 x Birnie abductions; 4 murders 1 survivor.
20/8/1987 Sally Greenham ex Adelaide Terrace after alighting taxi. Had traveled from Geraldton (not in taxi), missing.
20/6/1988 Julie Cutler ex Parmelia Hilton hotel Perth after staff function. Car found in surf at Cottesloe 2 days later. Missing.
29/6/1991 Kerry Turner ex Victoria Park dropped of by taxi outside Cafe L'Affair (spelling ?), on way to Armadale. Witnessed getting into car which traveled east towards Midland. Had been to Pinocchio's Nightclub in Perth.
16/5/1992 Radina Djukich ex North Beach. (shockingly) had been handed to known pedophile through court system. Missing. Pedophile subsequently convicted of murder of woman in following year.
13/7/1992 Cariad Slater missing 67a Rosewood Ave Woodlands. Solved man charged and convicted; case going through appeal process. Located in yard he lived in and address where taxi had dropped her off at.
7/10/1993 Alex Turner brother of Kerry Turner (missing 23/6/1991) murdered in homophobic attack.
27/1/1996 Sarah Spiers ex Claremont; missing
9/6/1996 Jane Rimmer missing ex Claremont, murdered located Wellard 3/8/1996
15/1/1997 Sara-Lee Davey ex Broome, missing. Man charged with murder Richard Dorrough 2015.
15/3/1997 Ciara Glennon ex Claremont, missing. Located murdered Eglinton 3/4/1997
9/11/1998 Lisa Brown ex Northbridge (street worker). Missing.
28/4/1999 Petronella Albert ex Broome. Could Dorrough be responsible?
29/7/1999 Hayley Dodd ex Badgingarra missing. Wark and 'one other' alleged murderers; one other now deceased suicide.
8/10/1999 Lisa Govan ex Kalgoorlie missing. Wark may be involved.
25/1/1999 Deborah Anderson ex Woodvale. Located Midland area deceased in driver's seat of burnt vehicle.
8/11/2000 Sarah McMahon ex Claremont work place lived with parents Parkerville; missing. Morey believed responsible. Coroner's inquest outcome.
15/11/2001 Susan Christie ex Daglish, missing. Ex husband charged and convicted, successful technical-based appeal quashed sentence.
18/3/2002 Christine Schipp ex Middle Swan. Prostitute. missing, located 6/5/2003 (cemetery record)
25/3/2003 Darrylyn Ugle. Street worker ex Northbridge. Located at Farrell Grove Mundaring Weir, ligature used Morey believed responsible. Matching forensics too circumstantial.
1/6/2003 Judy M'ringu ex Africa, call girl missing ex Bentley.
3/5/2010 Iveta Mitchell missing ex residence Parmelia. Had worked at hotel near Mundaring.

Well that makes for terrifying reading. It appears WA may just be a haven for serial killers running rampant, or we quite possibly have one of hell of a serial killer running round whilst the police rely on DNA and their cushy desk jobs to solve the case instead of the old fashion detective work that would more than likely crack the case wide open.

How did the CSK victims die? Rope?

Someone was saying cut throat, because of insect wounds? Where is the proof?

Rope and strangulation come up alot. If its like Karrakata then rope or cable?

So the serial rapist was able to evade Police so easily and could confidently navigate Perth with a dead body in the boot, or back.

So the Van is a commercial Van according to Brett christian. Or a panel van according to an old article.

Some articles mention Police mans son. A Blonde man too offering lifts. Or MM, or is MM one of the ones mentioned in the articles? Or is MM the martial arts expert?

Would a Police mans son confidently drive a body around Perth if the car was a private vehicle owned by a Police officer?

Lots of questions im sure the police could have easily investigated.

If the reports are correct all former suspects are cleared. The unofficial suspects of the highgate man or predator, or the martial arts expert are still not officially ruled out.

Bring on the coronial inquest, it borders on corruption that after 20 years there is still no inquest, atleast one political party is promising to set that right.

 

[papertrail]

@ Sutton and papertrail

Will you two be posting your timestamp information soon? I was going to wait until you both had posted but I got tired of waiting.. sorry[/QUOTE

still working on it; waiting for someone to get back to me on something.

 

[papertrail]

3 more missing women;

1997 Albany WA 25 Peta Weber Anglo
1995 Kardinya WA 20 Karen Skinner Anglo
1992 Armadale WA 46 Debra Donachy Anglo

I did not include Peta Weber as it is believed a person close to her was involved. Her date is 22/6/1997 ex a location called "the Bluff" near Albany.

Debra Donnachy case is interesting. She went missing 14/5/1992 ex her residence in Armadale; reported by her husband James Donnachy. He was interviewed by police on 20/5/1992 and committed suicide via car accident - into tree - on 21/5. He had attempted to murder her one year prior to her disappearance and the law process regarding the attempted murder was current at the time she disappeared. She was located at Karragullen buried in a shallow grave 10/4/2004.

James Donnachy may have had something to do with the Turner and Tate murders IMO.

Do you have any further information on Karen Skinner ?

 

[papertrail]

QUOTE "Someone was saying cut throat, because of insect wounds? Where is the proof?"

Given the WA police released specific information about one of two suspects in the CIA doc; in particular the man that carried a loaded auto rifle under his seat, might show there was a gun involved.

 

[Bartholemeus]

How did the CSK victims die? Rope?

Someone was saying cut throat, because of insect wounds? Where is the proof?

There's two ways of telling 100%;

a) there are cut marks on the neck bone which will only be present as a result of a deep cut, and
b) The body has not yet decomposed enough and the cuts in the skin can be seen

Both bodies were decomposed enough to not be able to see the cuts in the skin and neither had cuts on the bone.

The reason they couldn't see the cuts, particularly in CGs case was the area had been eaten away by insects. This is consistent with throats being cut, i.e. 100% of the time throats are cut there is more insect activity in that area. An obvious place for insects to start basically.

So it's not 100% but it's very close.

This is documented in DMs book. She does have a few incorrect facts in her book so it's possible she is mistaken but highly unlikely.

 

[Basilisk]

My understanding is that she was strangled with electrical cable, and that she escaped and ran to the repatriation hospital.