CO - 3 killed in shootout near/at Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs, 27 Nov 2015 *Arrest*

[borndem]

Oh no. That was something I did not want to read. I wanted for once for all the victims to make it. I wonder if one of them was a police officer. I think it may have been.

IMO

From what we have "heard" all during this thing, I figured he would have had to have killed some one. He was firing a lot of shots. Will we ever find out why? Why this place? Or was it a bank robbery gone wrong, so he turned his rage towards LE.

 

[margarita25]

Am I just not understanding this? A prior felony conviction didn't disqualify him from buying an AK-47?

I think of other felons we have seen here on WS whose convictions didn't stop them from owning weapons, iirc Wesley Hadsell, etc, etc...

 

[bluesneakers]

( I really feel for LE having to process this major crime scene in this weather, it is snowy, icy, coool... I'm literally freezingmao, even inside. The elements surely make it even more challenging for investigators )

I was thinking that watching the livestream yesterday. The temp was dropping, it was snowing, it was getting dark, so many people looked cold. No one woke up that morning thinking that's where and how their day would end.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

one cant understand anyone in the present without knowing the past IMO

troubled loner with a long but relatively minor criminal history, who had preferred living in places of extreme isolation

abused his wife--accused of domestic violence in 1997 after allegedly assaulting his wif

“He appeared very calm and deliberate,” Mr. Suthers said, adding, “He was, at one point, sitting in a chair, positioning himself to where he would have maximum visibility for any officer coming indoor

home as a ramshackle single-wide trailer in a wooded, rural area, surrounded by hand-scrawled “no trespassing” signs. At some point, Mr. Dear built a wooden platform off the trailer that Mr. Davis described as “a turret.”

“He would climb up there and sit there with binoculars looking at people” driving by at the road around 50 feet away, Mr. Davis said.

Mr. Davis said Mr. Dear followed him several times in his car, at one point trailing him for about 15 to 20 miles, incidents that prompted Mr. Davis to report Mr. Dear to the police.
“It was pretty clear to anyone who lived around here that he wasn’t right in the head,”

leering at a neighbor from the bushes by her house.

f shooting a neighbor’s dog with a pellet gun.

dispute with tenants of a property he leased i

accusing one woman at one point of damaging his pipes by flushing raw chicken down the toilet.

Schizophrenia !!

some kids had broken a water pipe in his backyard,

tie his lawn mower to the back of his four-wheeler to mow his lawn, Mr. Adams said.

he was not all there.”

seemed kind of weird.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/items-t...nned-parenthood-secured-police-say-1448724486

BBM:

1) Can raw chicken actually do that? I mean I guess if I were trimming chicken and didn't have a garbage disposal or threw it right out and were in the woods I'd flush it down the toilet so it didn't smell?

2) Uh... wert? Totally weird, bizarre, similar to the video I saw once of a lady riding a segway and pushing a baby stroller in front of it. Like... not computing here. Was the the usual way he mowed his lawn? Was it a push mower he towed with his vehicle? Was it a huge long set of blades for a large area of land he pulled and substituted what would be ox or horses for his vehicle?


It's all just so weird and horrible. But aside from all the crazy things, those two made me do an extra "huh"?

 

[CARIIS]

We must look at the whole event.He did not (could not) shoot anyone point blank. In the brain. He wallowed around in there for hours, confused. IMO it looked (think james bond) cool the Paris guys getting out of thier car and blasting away .

The fact that he gacve up said You Win, is a childish end to a horrible behavior.

And IMO this will end up legally , in a mental deal with the courts, he is nothing like the Paris dudes, he is sick , watched IMO, a lot of Paris, delusinal, tried to replicate them , and when he got himslef into the middle of it got lost - none of the vistums were staff or pts - that IMO tells us much

 

[margarita25]

,
What bank robbery? Do you have a link to where it says he tried to rob that bank?

FTR / this reminds me, unrelated, but CO LE has had so much practice here lately, in addition to a million other shooting incidents here, there was actually another "Active Shooter" situation just days ago in Sheridan, CO, I started the thread myself, turns out it was bank robbery related...point is, between last month's rampage in downtown Co Springs (that guy killed 3 people on the streets before LE shot him dead, he also targeted an AA sober living house iirc) and so much more including the other Active Shooter situation where they locked down schools, CO's Swat Teams are getting quite the workout.

Eta: ot, unrelated, but it seems imo bank robbery and burglary do cross over into other crimes, whether or not being the initial motive, but rather a common behavioral link, jmo.

 

[bluesneakers]

It seems like this guy was simply a nut job who used whatever location to shoot up for his nut job theory.

James Holmes did the same thing. Jmo

So is this really about planned parenthood. Or simply a nut job that didn't get his meds for the purpose that Ronald Reagan closed the mental hospital 30 years ago.

You might be on to something there. He wasn't a crusader like Eric Rudolph. He wasn't even a ticking time bomb because it looks like it took years for him to finally go off and who knows why it happened now or why he chose Planned Parenthood to go after. Maybe he's been thinking about baby parts for months and saw an ad for PP two days ago. I have no idea, but PP is at least part of it IMO.

He doesn't seem treatment-friendly to me. He would resist any help, IMO. Other than involuntary commitment was there any hope for him?

 

[margarita25]

Have we learned yet what specific types of explosives were in his car? Tia.

Also, were they the propane tanks like the BBQ grill small propane tanks?

 

[CARIIS]

Schizophrenia changes how you think, feel, and act. Its symptoms will be different for everyone who gets the disease. The symptoms can come and go, too. No one will have all of them all of the time.
In general, there are three kinds:

• Positive (things that start to happen)
• Negative (things that stop happening)
• Cognitive (related to processing information)

When the disease is in full swing and symptoms are severe, the person with schizophrenia can't tell what's real and what's not. This happens less often as they get older.
People with the condition usually aren't aware that they have it until a doctor or counselor tells them. They won't even realize that something is seriously wrong. If they do happen to notice symptoms, like not being able to think straight, they might chalk it up to things like stress or being tired.
.
[h=3]Positive Symptoms[/h]The changes you see are "add-ons" to normal behavior. The person starts thinking or doing things they didn't think or do before.
Hallucinations. They might hear, see, smell, or feel things no one else does. Most often they'll hear voices inside their heads. These might tell them what to do, warn them of danger, or say mean things to them. The voices might talk to each other.
Delusions. These are beliefs that seem strange to most people and are easy to prove wrong. The person affected might think someone is trying to control their brains t
Confused thoughts and speech. People with schizophrenia can have a hard time organizing their thoughts. They might not be able to follow along when you talk to them. Instead, it might seem like they're zoning out or distracted. When they talk, their words can come out all jumbled and not make sense.
.
Schizophrenia changes how you think, feel, and act. Its symptoms will be different for everyone who gets the disease. The symptoms can come and go, too. No one will have all of them all of the time.
In general, there are three kinds:

• Positive (things that start to happen)
• Negative (things that stop happening)
• Cognitive (related to processing information)

They usually start between ages 16 and 30. Men often get them earlier than women.




When the disease is in full swing and symptoms are severe, the person with schizophrenia can't tell what's real and what's not. This happens less often as they get older.
People with the condition usually aren't aware that they have it until a doctor or counselor tells them. They won't even realize that something is seriously wrong. If they do happen to notice symptoms, like not being able to think straight, they might chalk it up to things like stress or being tired.
If you're concerned that you or someone you know is showing signs of schizophrenia, talk to a doctor or counselor.
[h=3]Positive Symptoms[/h]The changes you see are "add-ons" to normal behavior. The person starts thinking or doing things they didn't think or do before.
Hallucinations. They might hear, see, smell, or feel things no one else does. Most often they'll hear voices inside their heads. These might tell them what to do, warn them of danger, or say mean things to them. The voices might talk to each other.


I am a Paris terrorist :
Delusions. These are beliefs that seem strange to most people and are easy to prove wrong. The person affected might think someone is trying to control their brains through their TVs or that the FBI is out to get them. They might believe they're someone else, like a famous actor or the president, or that they have superpowers.
Confused thoughts and speech. People with schizophrenia can have a hard time organizing their thoughts. They might not be able to follow along when you talk to them. Instead, it might seem like they're zoning out or distracted. When they talk, their words can come out all jumbled and not make sense.
They can also have trouble concentrating. For example, they might lose track of what's going on in a TV show as they're watching.
Different movements. Someone with the condition can seem jumpy. Sometimes they'll make the same movements over and over again.

If we go back to people that encountered him they described these behavoirs --- isolative, scary, off, weird, classic

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml

 

[margarita25]

It seems like this guy was simply a nut job who used whatever location to shoot up for his nut job theory.

James Holmes did the same thing. Jmo

So is this really about planned parenthood. Or simply a nut job that didn't get his meds for the purpose that Ronald Reagan closed the mental hospital 30 years ago.

I know what you mean...I've been pondering the PP thing...chances are, excluding LE and the staff and patients' companions, the majority of the victims would be female, right? I mean I know it's a family place, but it's also a type of "Woman's Place", I think. Does this say anything about his psyche, other than his being possibly anti abortion etc), as far as hating woman, or maybe having mommy issues? Thinking out loud...he obviously hates LE (so do our NoCo shooter (s) I think, as they have fired on a jail van, etc).

Eta: domestic violence, a picture is emerging.

 

[margarita25]

Great post by HMSHOOD in the Paris thread. I have to bring this over because it encompasses where my brain has been at!

From this link: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...is-13-November-2015-4&p=12214539#post12214539

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors


If there is one thing I’ve learned in four decades of law enforcement work it is that there is no single reason for why people commit crimes. Everything from impulsivity, to immaturity, to hatred, to mental disorders, to socialization to whatever motive or excuse you want to use can be found and that makes predicting criminal behavior difficult.


Yet, every once in a while, when we look closely at the behavior of offenders (for our purposes this includes extremists), you begin to see commonalities. Not necessarily causality, but rather common features or behaviors that should make us take note, look closer, explore deeper, question, or consider.


One such commonality or phenomenon was written about in the book “Hunting Terrorists: A Look at the Psychopathology of Terror (link is external)” (2004 Charles C. Thomas
Publishers) and later in a blog post for Psychology Today. For this commonality often seen with extremists, terrorists, mass killers, and others, the term wound collecting was coined.


Terrorists like Abdulhamid Abaaoud, Abubakar Shekau, Abu Bakr al-Bagdadi, and Osama bin Laden are large scale injustice collectors or wound collectors. In many ways, they share common characteristics with spree killers. They rage at the world non-stop. They are resentful at the world and have a pathological need for enemies.


Wound collectors are not seen in terrorists and spree killers.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ravis-Alexander-forum&p=12214503#post12214503

 

[CARIIS]

I think of other felons we have seen here on WS whose convictions didn't stop them from owning weapons, iirc Wesley Hadsell, etc, etc...

I just can not grasp why congress keeps up with this rhetoric. They act like these folks are worrying about thier resume.

I am gonna go out a kill a bunch of people and I am concerned if I am violating a legel purchased firearm - it just makes no sense to me.

These folks are not anticpating a tommorow , the are not concerned about the next pre employment screening !! Buying arms illigally. This notion that if they tried to buy one and it was rejected- they would go online and pick one up - it being illigal is not a deterent - they are ready to die, a notch on there criminal history is not in their radar ! Could care less!

why cant congress get this ? Its flat out stupid IMO

 

[bluesneakers]

I know what you mean...I've been pondering the PP thing...chances are, excluding LE and the staff and patients' companions, the majority of the victims would be female, right? I mean I know it's a family place, but it's also a type of "Woman's Place", I think. Does this say anything about his psyche, other than his being possibly anti abortion etc), as far as hating woman, or maybe having mommy issues? Thinking out loud...he obviously hates LE (so do our NoCo shooter (s) I think, as they have fired on a jail van, etc).

Eta: domestic violence, a picture is emerging.

And add animal cruelty.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I so agree with you mr /miss dexter -- this guy had no idea where he was he got out starting shooting found a building and went in

now he has memory of being kinda anti fetus , in the heat of the moment it was the closest place to go

he did not go in and shoot woman who were there to have an abortion nor did he go in there and shoot people who were performing them

he shot out of a window when he saw blue lights and police cars

clueless, psycotic, and i do think Paris had something here in his mind , they ahd big booms , so he gets some propane tanks

wiring them up?? What do you need to ignite a propane tank a match you do not need wiring

its psycotic delusionial stuff IMO


wires?

Lmao. Thanks for agreeing. But in the future. I'm a dad and not a Misses. And this is something that you should have known by now since we have commented on threads together.

But anyways. Just in case that intent was mistaken.

Hugs.

 

[margarita25]

And add animal cruelty.

(Well, unfortunately we have also have some "serial cases" relating to that around here. Not going to go there, o/t and highly disturbing, I wish they'd catch these people, but mentioning it for the record. There is even a thread I unfortunately had to start...There are also some other animal cases mentioned in NoCo...) eta: I just saw here on a new thread something about the FBI will now be tracking Animal Cruelty cases...(adding link for reference in progress)

Back on topic, but yes, this is not surprising, yet interesting. He seems to share some characteristics with molesters, serial killers, etc, despite his current classification of "Rampage Shooter". Obviously he's a murderer like a serial killer, but there are classifications in Criminology as related to psychologiCal aspects, etc, and supposed variances, that I'm trying to wrap my head around (for the main purpose in trying to figure out who has been randomly shooting people around here).

 

[Forager]

,
What bank robbery? Do you have a link to where it says he tried to rob that bank?

There was a Chase branch nearby, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that it or any other bank was involved in this incident.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I haven't seen that. Everything seems sort of all over the place...someone injured in parking lot, in their car, etc. I am not sure if I've read where exactly each injured or deceased person was located.

If anyone has a link with that info, please post.

Snipped. I was reading a statement from the PP spokesperson that said all staff and patients were accounted for. This person did say accounted for, not necessarily denied any were injured I think. Look back around post # 108 if I remember correctly. You'd quoted me in there and I have yet to conquer replying to those types of quotes.

 

[CARIIS]

Not sure who I am responding to! Last I heard from local tv yesterday (local being them ) was propane (plural) with "wires" ?? coming out of them

just silly open it up light a match and poof....

"wires" (delusinial I am making a bomb like the paris terrorists !?)

disorganized thinking in my mind ............

 

[KristinSchmistin]

SSI is income-based and SSD is for people who can't work due to a disability. It's actually quite difficult to qualify for SSD.

He strikes me as someone who doesn't have the work history he'd need and money from the government isn't something he'd be okay with. He would have to subject himself to a great deal of scrutiny and it would mean the government would always be in his business. JMO.

Totally think you're right now that we are getting a better picture of what he's like.

Thanks for the cleanup- I'm all befuddled about the acronyms for all the stuff we have here - SSI or SSD etc.

Side note: please don't think I was putting the programs down by my description how I mentioned that it seems like (just my opinion) anyone can qualify. I think here in NY we have so much benefits/insurance/welfare fraud you see and hear more of the cases where people are abusing the system. I do think the programs are good to have for people who truly need help! And obviously the abusers just make it harder for those who really need help to get it. No offense intended- I didn't word that as well as I could have. Sorry!


Sent from my not so humble opinion.

 

[CARIIS]

There was a Chase branch nearby, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that it or any other bank was involved in this incident.

I am not saying any relationship bank robbery and this but boy perfect time to rob a bank

I totally beleive the Paris gang absolutly meant to kill teh CEO of France that night, look at the lcoation and timing , blow three of you up incluiding the CEO all personnal are there

then they go "downtown" I think they planned on going on and on cause all personel were at the stadium


so a Chase robber (that was part of the story for a bit) ideal but dont think really it was conncected just mo