CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #15

[ICUDOUCME]

Sorry, I was not meaning to yell, it was to differentiate the final statement.

I guess I am not doing a good job of trying to clarify my point. I am not really talking about cell service. I am talking about dad's decision to begin texting his son and to WAIT for a reply, to decide if he was safe or not. My point is, IF as dad says, he was waiting to hear from Dylan, as a way to see if he made it to town, then it follows that dad believes his cell phone is going to work. Right?

Why would he spend 5 hrs waiting for a reply to his texts if there was no cell reception there?

eta: I don't agree that MR was not tech savvy enough to know if he could receive texts at his home or not. JMO

He has made statements that he didn't wait 5 hours, because he says he spoke to a friend of Dylans in Vallecito, and then said he went looking for him(maybe not right away of course, but he did drive to Bayfield)....we dont have basic answers to most of the basic questions we all have because LE won't say anything.

 

[Salem]

What do you suggest I watermark it? Property of Websleuths? Any mod advice/recommendations or leave as is?

Thanks!

Hi TxJan - I'm going to take this to the private messaging system till we get it all worked out. Just wanted the other posters to know that we are aware and we are working on it.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[nikb]

Oh OOH oHHHHHH I just had this flash, thinking about truck drivers(if indeed MR is one)if he is having to keep logs of drive times, I wonder what his logs look like? Wonder if one of those trucks is a company truck? Wouldn't make since really two have two different ones(some would say it does, but I would think he would need money more than two trucks).

Good thought! I'm sure he'd have to keep logs either for his company or his own taxes, depending on his work.

 

[Darcyline]

Often, one can get a feel for the direction LE is leaning, but not this time. They don't mind leaving MR twisting in the wind, which just may be their procedure, or may be meaningful, no way of knowing. They are not really reacting, IMO, as though a dangerous predator came through town and snatched Dylan off the streets.

I agree. For awhile, I honestly felt like they were honing in on MR, but now I sort of feel like they only did that because they have absolutely zero evidence or idea what happened so MR is the easiest and quickest target. At the same time, they had a team going over RSOs which is the other easy/quick target.

Unfortunately, as more time passes I also become uneasy about them solving this.

 

[Confusion]

Ok, so riddle me this. If you were worried about your missing kid, and you were at your sisters house, would you text your kid and wait for your kid to reply, BEFORE you began looking for them?

I mean if you knew that the reception was iffy, would you wait 5 hrs to see if your kid was safe and sound?

Because people are saying there is spotty or no reception at dad's house. If so, then why did he stay there from 11:30 until 4, trying to text his kid to check on him?

I wouldn't text him; I don't have a cell phone, and my baby is 30 years old. I'd definitely try calling several times before I called out a search party.

 

[scorekeeper]

Often, one can get a feel for the direction LE is leaning, but not this time. They don't mind leaving MR twisting in the wind, which just may be their procedure, or may be meaningful, no way of knowing. They are not really reacting, IMO, as though a dangerous predator came through town and snatched Dylan off the streets.

I guess the LE in Jessica's case spoiled us; we the public were kept advised, aware when the parents were cleared, and as soon as LE knew there was a predator on the loose. And none of their revelations hurt their attempts to make an arrest.

LE needs to be doing what is best for Dylan; I hope they are. I hope they are not following some manual that tells them to keep all info "top secret". I hope they know, or learn soon, what might be helpful to share and could bring results. Right now my level of comfort that Dylan will be found anytime soon is at zero.

I wonder how involved the FBI is? Is not the CARD team working on Dylan's case?

Yes, Jessica's case and all the press conferences kept us up to date.

Very, very frustrating. I hope they are sharing information with family but who knows. :banghead::banghead:

 

[SmoothOperator]

I do not believe that they could of made it back to MR by 8pm....maybe 8:30 or so, but not 8pm. Walmart takes awhile, and McDonalds is a bit further into town...several lights something like 3 or 4....plus a bit of traffic, and if the time was 7:06pm and they were still at the airport, then for sure no way!

As a non-local from just reading what info is available per the internet+maps+you wonderful locals sharing your knowledge.. I agree that the likelihood of them being home at dad's by 8pm is slim.. and while that in and of itself is no specific indicator either way with the cell phone issue.. I am however of the very strong opinion that Dylan's cell phone never made it to dad's home.. but that's nothing more than jmo, tho.

 

[katydid23]

Goodness. I have no words. I may need to go to bed. The plot is lost here.

Please, tell me where I am mistaken. MR said himself that he texted his son and waited for him to reply.

You seem to be saying that without a doubt there is NO cell service there. Wouldn't MR know if he had cell reception or not?

Are you telling me that he had none, but he was texting anyway, because he did not know it was fruitless?

Please, do not say ' I have no words' or bang your head, or anything. Just explain to me why MR would sit and wait for his son to reply, if there was no chance of a text going through.

Maybe I am dense. Please explain it to me. I have seen your posts showing the lack of towers. But there are other things, like the words and actions of MR which seem to cast doubt on that theory.

 

[PaulR]

correct IMO.. while there is obviously not excellent reception(full bars as we call it..lol) at dad's home there is reception..just as you mention above dad(who lives there full time and would be very aware of the reception capabilities) from his home was texting Dylan's cell phone throughout the afternoon of Monday, 11/19.. we also have mom, Elaine's pointed answer about this specific issue and that in her experience the reception was uninterrupted for text messaging/SMS, but that actual phone calls were not as reliable in that area..

**I will note for importance the following before further explaining**

THE KEY POINT HERE IS THAT THERE IS SUCCESSFULL TEXT MESSAGING WHICH MEANS THERE IS SUCCESSFUL PINGING FROM DADS HOUSE..


So, now here I go again about pings as its related to reception.. among other times pinging occurs during the transmission of cell phone text messages.. in my opinion having a good basis for what type reception was available in this area and that it was sufficient for text messaging to be successfully sent/received ... this means that pinging is/was successfully occurring as well.

Therefor Dylan's cell phone records from his service provider will be able to give NOT ONLY when the last communication occurred from Dylan's cell phone(ie. the exact time and specific communication type<phonecall or text message>).. the records will also be able to give the EXACT TIME AND EXACT LOCATION of where the last ping was detected from Dylan's cell phone.

Now let me be clear that the actual last ping may NOT be representative of the EXACT LOCATION of where the phone was at when it was rendered no longer operable.. this simply due firstly, that pings are not as pinpoint specific as GPS is in giving a location, and secondly that the areas traveled through on the night of 11/18 are more rural areas, with less amount of cell phone towers for the cell phone to ping off of(ie. this the exact reason for less than perfect reception).. and due to there being less towers, less ping triangulation available, then the last ping from the phone will not be AS ACCURATE AS AN AREA WITH MORE CELL TOWERS AND BETTER RECEPTION.

in the end tho, the point remains that there will be an exact time and location of the last cell phone tower that Dylan's phone pinged the night of 11/18 which will give at least a general idea of where the phone was at immediately preceding its for whatever reason becoming permanently inoperable.

First, you are right about that last bit - we'll have a rough idea on where Dylan was but it won't be accurate because he was probably only contacting one cell tower at the end. The police may be able to interpolate his movements but that may be the best we have.

But on the first bit... I think you are incorrect.

As I've explained earlier, SMS messages will work because they can be queued at the cell tower or in the phone for delivery if the connection isn't there. ER can think all she wants that there was uninterrupted service for SMS messages but the only possible way that could be (assuming we're not looking at overloaded cell towers which I doubt we have in Durango) is if there was an uninterrupted connection from the phone to the cell tower. If that was the case, phone calls would work. But we know phone calls didn't work, ER said that.

As far as ER knows, text messages were going through but think of it this way: you have sent me a text message, and ten minutes later you get a response from me. Here's the question: how do you know whether or not I had good cell phone connectivity? Because I could have had excellent connectivity, gotten the SMS right away, and waited a few minutes to respond. Or I could have lousy connectivity and not gotten the SMS until five minutes after you sent it. The phone company will know this but *you* (meaning the person sending the original SMS) will not unless you are explicitly asking the person at the other end about timestamps and such.

I'm assuming ER is not the type of person to ask DR/MR exactly when they sent an SMS so she can figure out what kind of delay was involved. All she knows is that SMS "works" and phone calls "don't work" and that's actually good enough.

What we don't know about MR's place is how bad the cell phone reception is, how intermittent it was. There's a possibility that due to environmental conditions and all the other ways EM waves propagate that MR was "offline" from the cell network for a lot longer than he realized. He'd only know that if he was constantly checking his cell phone bars and maybe had some kind of diagnostic utility to tell him how long it had been since his phone was last able to connect.

 

[Ransom]

Are you referring to future towers or registered towers? There are no future towers or registered towers within 4 miles of Vallecito as per that site.

This site has the registered towers for Bayfield it appears....

http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Bayfield-Colorado.html#CellPhone

The Verizon Tower appears to be at the end of Red Hawk Circle in Bayfield. We still don't know what carrier was on either phone though.

MOO

Your post here that I was referring to: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8632625&postcount=817"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #15[/ame]

GAH???? Here it we go again before we switch to some other crud and change the plot.

I really, really and for real do not understand how the posts change from A to Z other than I am some sort of squirrel or more befitting to me a chipmunk.

 

[ICUDOUCME]

As a non-local from just reading what info is available per the internet+maps+you wonderful locals sharing your knowledge.. I agree that the likelihood of them being home at dad's by 8pm is slim.. and while that in and of itself is no specific indicator either way with the cell phone issue.. I am however of the very strong opinion that Dylan's cell phone never made it to dad's home.. but that's nothing more than jmo, tho.

I don't have an answer to any of the phone issues, I keep thinking maybe he broke it, maybe it died, maybe it feel in a toilet, maybe it's in the lake. Maybe it's in a truck(and LE isn't telling us). Maybe he lost it...there are soooooo many things that could of happened to this phone.


As for timing seems MR probably just doesn't have his guestaments right. I wouldn't know what time I go to bed, run to walmart, or anywhere else for that matter(guess I better start keeping a log). I can tell you what time i leave to pick my daughter up from school the rest of my day has no logic to it.:moo:

 

[katydid23]

He has made statements that he didn't wait 5 hours, because he says he spoke to a friend of Dylans in Vallecito, and then said he went looking for him(maybe not right away of course, but he did drive to Bayfield)....we dont have basic answers to most of the basic questions we all have because LE won't say anything.

He didn't go to the friends in Vallecito until about 4 pm. It was then that he became alarmed and drove to Bayfield. So he did wait nearly 5 hours.

[ I will go find the link]

 

[PaulR]

Are you telling me that he had none, but he was texting anyway, because he did not know it was fruitless?

Katy, assuming you sent a text message and there was no cell service, I want you to explain to me how you would figure out (say) an hour later that the message was never sent.

Simple question.

 

[katydid23]

I'm with you. I have never seen anywhere except here that basically "every single thing" DR came to his dad's house with was missing, or that no clothes were at the dad's house, or that he left "nothing" behind. It also took me a bit to realize that the phone and charger might not necessarily be together or be with Dylan, so who knows... They aren't at the house but that doesn't mean anyone knows where they are or if they're with Dylan. Certainly lots of possibilities IMO.

Just for the record I think MR might or might not be involved. I won't be shocked if he is, but I won't be shocked if he isn't (though I will feel very bad for him given all that's been said if he isn't).

Last night Confusion posted a link to the FB page, and a post written the the FB administrator. And in the post, which she said was written to pass on what the investigators had just shared with her, she said that she was told that nothing was left behind, and Dylan had everything with him. [ I will go and try to find that link now.]

 

[Darcyline]

Stuff on facebook, to me, are rumors until proven otherwise by a more credible source. Is this the same administrator of the facebook page that is being deleted?

 

[Kamille]

Ok, so riddle me this. If you were worried about your missing kid, and you were at your sisters house, would you text your kid and wait for your kid to reply, BEFORE you began looking for them?

I mean if you knew that the reception was iffy, would you wait 5 hrs to see if your kid was safe and sound?

Because people are saying there is spotty or no reception at dad's house. If so, then why did he stay there from 11:30 until 4, trying to text his kid to check on him?

To put it more in context, MR had lost joint custody of his 13yr old son after his last visit with him in September. That son made statements at the September hearing that awarded his mother full custody. He went back to court in November (days/a couple of weeks before this visit?) to get visitation rights and the court ordered Dylan to visit over this holiday.

So he picked up his son, after a one day delay, and refused to take him to his prearranged meet up with his friends because the delay made it "too late" to do so. (Dylan arrived at 6pm and the trip to Bayfield was about the same distance as the trip to Durango) MR would have us believe that Dylan was perfectly content with the new plan to go to Walmart and McDonalds and then get up at 6am to go visit his friends rather than just go there right from the airport.

So the next day Dylan did not want to get up and MR hung around for an extra hour and a half before leaving for his errands and this still did not stir Dylan awake. So he nudged him before leaving and told him he'd be back at 11am to "see about getting him to his friends". When he returned, his 13yr old son was not there. Now instead of panicking considering he had just been granted visitation with him through the courts, and his 13yr old son (not 16, not 18) had taken the only belongings he had brought there, save for a couple of pieces of clothing (we're still not sure about that) and just left, he just assumed that Dylan had gone off on his own somewhere and would be back? Where did he think he might have gone? MR lives in a remote location and it's not as if Dylan could just head over to the neighbour's place where he had friends, or the local mall. Not to mention Dylan had spent little time there in the previous 3 years according to ER, since MR himself was working and not home much. How well did he even know the area? This wasn't the home that he lived in before the family moved. He was out somewhere in a remote location and MR had no idea where. Now you'd think that most people would panic right away wondering where he might have gotten to, especially since he had just had to fight in court to get visitation with his son. But MR was fine with shooting off a few texts over a 4 hour period until he decided to go out looking.

Boggles my mind really.

MOO

 

[Confusion]

Please, tell me where I am mistaken. MR said himself that he texted his son and waited for him to reply.

You seem to be saying that without a doubt there is NO cell service there. Wouldn't MR know if he had cell reception or not?

Are you telling me that he had none, but he was texting anyway, because he did not know it was fruitless?

Please, do not say ' I have no words' or bang your head, or anything. Just explain to me why MR would sit and wait for his son to reply, if there was no chance of a text going through.

Maybe I am dense. Please explain it to me. I have seen your posts showing the lack of towers. But there are other things, like the words and actions of MR which seem to cast doubt on that theory.

He didn't go to the friends in Vallecito until about 4 pm. It was then that he became alarmed and drove to Bayfield. So he did wait nearly 5 hours.

[ I will go find the link]

I don't remember seeing what time he got to the first friend's house, but he was reportedly at the friend in Bayfield's house by 4:15 and it's about a 30 minute drive (20 miles according to MR). He returned home at about 11:30am, did whatever he did at the house when he got back, and tried to text Dylan. When he didn't receive a response, he sent another text and waited for a response. If the service is spotty there, he could very well have thought the first (and possibly later) texts were either slow in delivery or not delivered at all; at the same time, he may have thought the same thing was possible with any response. It's been said that he sent "several" texts to him, but I don't remember seeing how many. If he allowed up to 15 minutes each way (his message, and possible response)for delivery, and sent just 4 messages, that would be 2 hours. Including driving time, that's really not so much time wasted. MOO

 

[ICUDOUCME]

Last night Confusion posted a link to the FB page, and a post written the the FB administrator. And in the post, which she said was written to pass on what the investigators had just shared with her, she said that she was told that nothing was left behind, and Dylan had everything with him. [ I will go and try to find that link now.]

Please do I must of missed it....I do find it strange that nothing was left behind, but yet again that nice little news story said there was Dylan's ipod taken....so that is more crap to say "HU?":banghead:

Then I wonder if I took everything with me to leave, why would I be wearing shorts that morning, it's freekin freezing that early in the am there. Like in the low 20's. If it was say later in the am still to cold for shorts, and a short sleeve shirt.

 

[Salem]

Hey Guys - it is getting late again and it appears tempers are on the rise.

Please remember - posters can hash things over, and over, and over and then over again. If you feel it has been hashed out, then don't reply, just move past it and let those that are still working out the details, work on them. It's okay. Don't stress over it.

We have posters that can only pop in when they have time and may miss many pages and many discussions, but they still want answers. That's okay. Let those who are in the mood, answer them.

We have other posters that like to mull things over until they feel comfortable with their own interpretation of things. That's okay. Let them work it out for themselves. If you are in a place where you feel comfortable with your own interpretation and don't want to mull it over anymore - great. Move past those posts.

But don't get down on others that are still working through things or are just popping in to catch up on the latest news.

If you need a break, take one. Visit other threads, get a cuppa tea, whatever. Just breathe. It is all good.

Salem

 

[katydid23]

Katy, assuming you sent a text message and there was no cell service, I want you to explain to me how you would figure out (say) an hour later that the message was never sent.

Simple question.

I understand what you are getting at. But that is not what I am trying to say.

But yes of course, maybe his texts were delayed somewhat. maybe.

But that was not the point I was making. I am responding to people who are saying that he had ZERO service at his house. And my point is that he would know about it if he had zero service. Wouldnt he?

My point is that he must have had somewhat reliable service or he wouldn't have gambled his missing sons safety on it.

But I guess now if you all are saying that the service was so faulty that he could never know if a text was sent, then it makes me very suspicious of him. Because he said he was checking to see if Dylan arrived safely at his friends by texting and waiting for a reply.

But if you guys are saying there were no towers and no available service, Then why was he waiting to look for his son until he received a reply? Now I am even more suspicious. Thanks for the heads up.

I am sure I seem a bit stubborn, by harping on this point. But I think it is a major issue. MR had just that moment found his son to be missing. And what is his response?

His response, to the crisis, according to him, is to text him and wait for his reply.

So to me, that would prove that he had confidence in his cell service. But to others, it means nothing. Some are saying he had no service. So what does that mean then? Why would he sit and wait for a text in reply if he had no service? Maybe it was a phony alibi?