CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #23

[Chili Fries]

IF
there are CPS records, they are not accessible to the parents or LE. The records actually belong to the child and the child has the right to view the records when he or she reaches the age of majority. Even then, the child is only allowed to view the record. The record does not leave the agency.

History with an ex is not usually taken into consideration during a current divorce and unless ER brought an abuse issue forward during her divorce, it would never have been addressed. So whatever MR did to AZgrandma's kid's, it wouldn't play into the current situation.

NC Analyzer, I know you are a CPS professional and you know what you are talking about, but, as far as criminal cases go, I do know that CPS records were provided to LE in a child murder case (in Florida) a few years ago (the child was not murdered by the parent, and the records, while not directly analogous to azgrandma's, were somewhat tangential to the investigation and involved an ex who was in no way a suspect).

 

[NC Analyzer]

NC Analyzer, I know you are a CPS professional and you know what you are talking about, but, as far as criminal cases go, I do know that CPS records were provided to LE in a child murder case (in Florida) a few years ago (the child was not murdered by the parent, and the records, while not directly analogous to azgrandma's, were somewhat tangential to the investigation and involved an ex who was in no way a suspect).

Yep. Likely one of those "rare" instances I mentioned when the judge requests the records. It does happen, but it will only happen in a court of law. Funny thing is, even when records are requested for court, only copies are made, certain information is blacked out (even to the judge), and sometimes the CPS worker isn't even allowed to leave the courtroom without taking the copies with them. Go figure.

 

[nursebeeme]

Do not discuss the verified posters in here. If you have a concern about something you can contact me or the owners as we are the only ones who have contact with the verified posters.

If you do not believe something they have told you, then just move on. You can politely say you have a hard time believing it if you'd like, but don't make an issue out of it. If you feel the information needs to be backed up with proof, alert the post. It is okay to suggest they contact LE, but leave it at that. That's all.

:tyou:

bumping this up folks... please read or re-read what kimster had to say about discussing verified posters.

You also have the choice, as always, whether to believe or disbelieve a verified poster. Discussing other posters choices is not going to fly. If you do not agree with one another move on from the issue.

 

[Kimster]

Here's the bottom line on the information from azgrandma.

It has been reviewed and decided that posting documents of this type is not in the best interest of azgrandma or the case of Dylan's disappearance. Azgrandma says LE has the information and that's good enough for us. If you don't want to believe what she says - or any insider for that matter - that's fine. All you need to do is be respectful and don't go on and on about it.
:deadhorse:

 

[NC Analyzer]

NC Analyzer, I know you are a CPS professional and you know what you are talking about, but, as far as criminal cases go, I do know that CPS records were provided to LE in a child murder case (in Florida) a few years ago (the child was not murdered by the parent, and the records, while not directly analogous to azgrandma's, were somewhat tangential to the investigation and involved an ex who was in no way a suspect).

Sorry if I'm being long winded, but I just realized you said CPS records were provided to LE? Are you sure? And I'm not disputing you because I have seen cases when we shared information with LE (not the actual record, but parts of the case files and my investigation notes) as a courtesy, and a tool for progressing the investigation, but it was usually only because of the case specifics and LE needed the forensics we already collected.

ETA: CPS works very closely with LE. Usually LE has a specific dept or individuals that work almost exclusively with CPS so we do tend to look at these cases as "ours".

 

[Confusion]

Never mind. I'll just shut up and go lay down by my dish now.

 

[nursebeeme]

Do not discuss verified posters... that means don't talk about verified posters in your post . Just trying to clarify what that means. Don't discuss whether you believe them or not... that is like discussing the verified poster. Thanks folks.

 

[LotusPawprint]

o/t I don't know who originally came up with the phrase "beating a dead horse" (though I've looked into its origins before) but as an animal lover, I really hate it and I cringe everytime I hear it. Though it is quite appropriate for 23 threads and almost 7 weeks of no information on a missing child.

 

[katydid23]

Would Elaine stop at accusing MR of taking a swing at his son, if she had actual abuse she could report/accuse?

So 'taking a swing' at a 9 yr old is NOT actual abuse?

 

[vasportsmom]

So 'taking a swing' at a 9 yr old is NOT actual abuse?

Lol, only if you give points for them being drunk and missing. I tend to think that being that drunk actually adds to the abuse issue.

 

[Confusion]

o/t I don't know who originally came up with the phrase "beating a dead horse" (though I've looked into its origins before) but as an animal lover, I really hate it and I cringe everytime I hear it. Though it is quite appropriate for 23 threads and almost 7 weeks of no information on a missing child.

I believe the phrase started back when people still used horses as their main means of transportation. It meant that continuing to discuss/argue about the subject is about as productive as beating on a dead horse to try to get it to move. More or less, you beat the poor horse to death trying to get it to run, and continuing to beat it now that it's dead won't help anything. About as good as "more than one way to skin a cat". MOO

 

[NC Analyzer]

Many have asked about drunk driving being a CPS issue and I've done my best to clarify that, but just to give you all something to think about...
It IS a CPS issue if a parent is intoxicated in the HOME if minors are present and no other caretaker is available. So, just a hypothetical situation: If MR was doing a lot of drinking during Dylan's visits it would be a reason to notify CPS.

 

[TxLady2]

BBM, a person does not have to hurt a child severely enough to cause medical attention in order to have a history of domestic violence. They just have to hurt a child once and that is wrong.

You do something once, it can be looked at as a mistake. If you do it twice then it is a choice.

I realize that, but not all DV is with the intent to kill, especially a child. I would think if one was hurt badly enough to say that the father tried to kill him, then he would need medical attention. If he hit one of his kids in the face with a fist, then yes, that's abuse. But it would not be classified as an intent to kill, as far as I know.

I was slapped in the face, whipped with a belt, and spanked on my bottom many times growing up, but I'm quite sure my parents never intended to kill me. That was in the days when physical punishment was acceptable.

All I am saying is, maybe he does have a history of DV, and may have taken his anger out on his kids sometimes. But it's a big leap from losing your temper and striking a child to literally wanting to kill them, KWIM?

 

[4Jayhawks]

Dylan's FB page is asking "Where are you praying, caring, sharing from today".

I would like to ask LE: "Where are you searching, investigating and following up on tips today?"

Not bashing LE....just want to know!!

 

[NC Analyzer]

I realize that, but not all DV is with the intent to kill, especially a child. I would think if one was hurt badly enough to say that the father tried to kill him, then he would need medical attention. If he hit one of his kids in the face with a fist, then yes, that's abuse. But it would not be classified as an intent to kill, as far as I know.

I was slapped in the face, whipped with a belt, and spanked on my bottom many times growing up, but I'm quite sure my parents never intended to kill me. That was in the days when physical punishment was acceptable.

All I am saying is, maybe he does have a history of DV, and may have taken his anger out on his kids sometimes. But it's a big leap from losing your temper and striking a child to literally wanting to kill them, KWIM?

Just because most abusers don't cross the line to murder doesn't mean we shouldn't be very mindful of an abusive history.
I'm fairly confident that most parents who murder their child could honestly say, "well, yesterday, I only hit him".

 

[TxJan1971]

“When a child hits a child, we call it aggression.
When a child hits an adult, we call it hostility.
When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault.
When an adult hits a child, we call it discipline.”
― Haim G. Ginott

 

[katydid23]

I realize that, but not all DV is with the intent to kill, especially a child. I would think if one was hurt badly enough to say that the father tried to kill him, then he would need medical attention. If he hit one of his kids in the face with a fist, then yes, that's abuse. But it would not be classified as an intent to kill, as far as I know.

I was slapped in the face, whipped with a belt, and spanked on my bottom many times growing up, but I'm quite sure my parents never intended to kill me. That was in the days when physical punishment was acceptable.

All I am saying is, maybe he does have a history of DV, and may have taken his anger out on his kids sometimes. But it's a big leap from losing your temper and striking a child to literally wanting to kill them, KWIM?

BBM
Absolutely. It is a big leap to say they 'want' to kill their child. But how many times have we seen kids rushed to emergency rooms with life threatening injuries, as a result of punishment? Way too many times.

And MR is a big strong man. Dylan is very small in comparison. If dad lost his temper and slapped him or punched him, it may have done more damage than he intended. :cry:

 

[white rabbit]

i'm changing the subject if anyone else is game.

azgrandma said when she moved to AZ, MR moved to North Carolina (thread 20 post 456). does anyone know why?

now i've been in the court records for the only area i can find with his name on it, greensboro...there's some interesting stuff if he was ever married to a woman named catherine. if it's him. the dates are all off though.

if anyone cares...TIA...

 

[nursebeeme]

i'm changing the subject if anyone else is game.

azgrandma said when she moved to AZ, MR moved to North Carolina (thread 20 post 456). does anyone know why?

now i've been in the court records for the only area i can find with his name on it, greensboro...there's some interesting stuff if he was ever married to a woman named catherine. if it's him. the dates are all off though.

if anyone cares...TIA...

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8671503&postcount=456"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #20[/ame]

I am adding the link to the post

 

[Abby Normal Again]

So 'taking a swing' at a 9 yr old is NOT actual abuse?

Is that what I said?

Ignoring that we do not even know if she was talking about DR or CR, it was merely a rhetorical question for everyone to consider for themselves.

I am a foster kid, my mom lost parental rights, and I work as a CASA volunteer. I understand child abuse, we're like like old school BFF's. I was simply asking if someone was making formal accusations, would they put out the worst of the worst, something in between or the best of the best? I was suggesting that instead of hounding on AZG's account- maybe we could consider the implication of what is out there from Eliane as well. Together. Quietly. To ourselves. Without any pressure what to derive from it.

But sure, if that means I'm all about punching kids- awesome.