CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #38

[Eileen730]

Not if it is for a different crime. For instance, say you are charged with someone's murder and you are acquitted, but then later more evidence is found and you are charged with a different crime like accessory to the crime, then I believe you can be tried for a different crime within the same case.

Could be!

 

[asyousay]

The shows have been taped already right? So, the results must not be too dramatic toward Mark or MR would refuse to do the show. There would be some news leaked. Or the finale will be very anti-climatic. Do the participants have the final say as to if the show can be aired? ty

Well they (the family) are not allowed to say what happened and have asked people to not ask them questions. So i dont see how anything would of leaked .

 

[Veidt]

No they wouldn't but they would accept a teen into their community if one were brought there.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Using this scenario...

A few places like that are lax about letting people join but have strict regulations about bringing in children and sometimes even teens and you are required to pick up the pace and contribute to the community if you want to stay.

Possible scenarios:

- Someone takes Dylan with them to a community like that and claims that he's their son. His reluctance to be there could be explained by the fact that teens don't always approve of their parents' life choices. If the story is plausible enough or if the person/people involved have connection then there would be no reason to doubt them.

- Someone drops off Dylan, I can see some communities like that being willing to take in teenagers, even younger ones, if they seemed like runaways. This scenario where he is unsupervised seems frankly less likely because he is into texting, using FB, and would not be very interested in living off the grid and doing farm work without complaints.

In either scenario, he could be reluctant to speak up about he is if the person/people behind his abduction threatened his friends and relatives or for fear that they would not believe him. In the second scenario the threats could explain why he wouldn't run away. The last option is that maybe the members of the community are somehow compliant or even fully aware of what is going on and he is essentially a hostage. That is less like the typical community of that kind that is mostly harmless hippies and not a Charles Manson cultish thing.

I think it is an unlikely scenario but I do think it would be worth checking them out. If not for Dylan's actual location then at least they might have seen him but not have known he was missing.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Great! So it's not about finding Dylan, it's about who's to blame for "losing" him. Just as I thought. Entertainment, and nothing more. We know who is getting the blame, there were 3 people there at least to point the finger. All anyone has to do is read anywhere this case is being talked about to see who will get the blame. No big mystery. And how is this going to find Dylan????

Just curious, since you have been opposed to this from the beginning will you watch it?

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt anything earth-shattering came from the show, as it would then be a matter for the police, not an editing team. Or at least I would hope so.

 

[SuperMom1995]

Not if it is for a different crime. For instance, say you are charged with someone's murder and you are acquitted, but then later more evidence is found and you are charged with a different crime like accessory to the crime, then I believe you can be tried for a different crime within the same case.

Adding to the "double jeopardy" issue:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/double+jeopardy

What Constitutes the Same Offense?

"Jeopardy may already have attached and terminated in a prior criminal proceeding, but the state may bring further criminal action against a person so long as it is not for the same offense.

Under current law, a proliferation of overlapping and related offenses may be prosecuted as separate crimes stemming from the same set of circumstances.[/B] For example, an individual who has stolen a car to facilitate an abduction resulting in attempted rape could be separately prosecuted and punished for auto theft, Kidnapping, and molestation. This development has significantly enlarged prosecutors' discretion over the charging process."

"The U.S. Supreme Court curbed this discretion in Blockburger v. United States, 284 U.S. 299, 52 S. Ct. 180, 76 L. Ed. 306 (1932),[/B] in which it wrote that the government may prosecute an individual for more than one offense stemming from a single course of conduct only when each offense requires proof of a fact that the other offenses do not require."

Examples:

Elements to prove for 2nd Degree Murder:

1. The victim is dead;
2. The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant;
3. There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

www.law.ua.edu/colquitt/crimmain/crimmisc/jurymur.htm

Elements to prove Kidnapping:

1. Taking, Seizing, Detention, or Restraint
2. Movement, Asportation, or Carrying Away
3. Effect of Distance of Removal or Duration or Place of Detention
4. Force or Threat; Confining or Taking By Force; Other Means of Instilling Fear
5. Secrecy; Concealment and Deception
6. Lack of Consent of Victim
7. Effect of Incapacity to Consent; Child as Victim
8. Particular Purpose or Intent
9. Accomplishment

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/elements-of-kidnapping/

So the required elements to prove the 2 crimes are totally different and therefore the person could be tried separately for each charge.

 

[asyousay]

I doubt anything earth-shattering came from the show, as it would then be a matter for the police, not an editing team. Or at least I would hope so.

Even so there could be more inconsistencies in his story and so on . I don't think anybody is expecting a confession but its another opportunity for the hard questions to be asked to mark .


Moo

 

[cluciano63]

Even so there could be more inconsistencies in his story and so on . I don't think anybody is expecting a confession but its another opportunity for the hard questions to be asked to mark .


Moo

Possibly, but IMO, if something important came out, it would be very difficult to keep quiet about it for a week, just for a TV show. I hope if any member of the family feels something was revealed in any way, they go directly to LE. There has to be an exemption in an on-going possible homicide investigation.

 

[SuperMom1995]

Adding to the "double jeopardy" issue:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/double+jeopardy

What Constitutes the Same Offense?

"Jeopardy may already have attached and terminated in a prior criminal proceeding, but the state may bring further criminal action against a person so long as it is not for the same offense.

Under current law, a proliferation of overlapping and related offenses may be prosecuted as separate crimes stemming from the same set of circumstances.[/B] For example, an individual who has stolen a car to facilitate an abduction resulting in attempted rape could be separately prosecuted and punished for auto theft, Kidnapping, and molestation. This development has significantly enlarged prosecutors' discretion over the charging process."

"The U.S. Supreme Court curbed this discretion in Blockburger v. United States, 284 U.S. 299, 52 S. Ct. 180, 76 L. Ed. 306 (1932),[/B] in which it wrote that the government may prosecute an individual for more than one offense stemming from a single course of conduct only when each offense requires proof of a fact that the other offenses do not require."

Examples:

Elements to prove for 2nd Degree Murder:

1. The victim is dead;
2. The death was caused by the criminal act of the defendant;
3. There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life.

www.law.ua.edu/colquitt/crimmain/crimmisc/jurymur.htm

Elements to prove Kidnapping:

1. Taking, Seizing, Detention, or Restraint
2. Movement, Asportation, or Carrying Away
3. Effect of Distance of Removal or Duration or Place of Detention
4. Force or Threat; Confining or Taking By Force; Other Means of Instilling Fear
5. Secrecy; Concealment and Deception
6. Lack of Consent of Victim
7. Effect of Incapacity to Consent; Child as Victim
8. Particular Purpose or Intent
9. Accomplishment

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/elements-of-kidnapping/

So the required elements to prove the 2 crimes are totally different and therefore the person could be tried separately for each charge.

Although I do not practice, I have a law degree and have done years of legal research, including legislative.

 

[WesternMD]

Quietly and in small print Focusing Upon Dylan And The Search Dogs.

 

[SCHMAE]

Quietly and in small print Focusing Upon Dylan And The Search Dogs.

Awww Western, I don't care if you shout it !

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The shows have been taped already right? So, the results must not be too dramatic toward Mark or MR would refuse to do the show. There would be some news leaked. Or the finale will be very anti-climatic. Do the participants have the final say as to if the show can be aired? ty

I don't think we can say for sure whether Mark passed or not. It's possible that even Mark doesn't know the results of the polygraph yet. Even if he did fail, and he is aware of that, he would have no say in whether it aired or not. I'm sure they had everyone sign a contract the second they walked on set.

 

[missrugby]

Speaking of hypotheticals, does anyone remember who the poster was in the beginning threads here, that gave a VERY DETAILED hypothetical scenario asking if someone was involved in Dylan's disappearance, and tried but not convicted, and then new information comes out later implicating them in a different crime, but one still related to Dylan's disappearance, can they be charged and retried on the same case?

I can't remember if I have mentioned it on this thread or another one but when my 5 year old family member was murdered the suspect was already in custody for another little girls murder. LE knows this man is guilty but knew it couldn't be proven without reasonable doubt so instead of charging him in her murder at that time and because he was already incarcerated for the other girls murder they decided not to charge him....yet. The reason is because if they did and he was acquitted then they couldn't later with more evidence charge him again. Unfortunately, it's now a cold case.

 

[Lurkiee]

However, unless the right questions are asked and answered, I still think that there was a disagreement between them that Mark is not saying anything about . It is my opinion that he is avoiding saying something for fear he will be thought guilty, but leaving out part of the truth is what makes him look guilty, if anyone follows my thinking

Just jumping off a part of your post.
What if Dylan left Sunday, after MR went to bed. (There wouldn't even have to be an argument, just a kid wanting to see his friends without thinking things through.)
MR gets up the next morning thinking Dylan went up to bed. Maybe he knocks or calls out for him to get up and in getting no response goes into town thinking he'll let him sleep. When MR gets home, he thinks Dylan is still sleeping and goes to wake him, finding that Dylan has not be in his room/bed at all. Realizing how bad it will sound that he didn't even know he had left and the legal problems that will follow he searches on his own, figuring Dylan is probably at R's house. This might explain the changing stories of that morning.
Also this would explain why no one saw Dylan leave Monday morning.
Dylan could have been picked up by anyone that night or hit by a car, a lot of deer run into the road in CO, someone may not have even realized it was not an animal. (Hate writing that last sentence)

Does this make any sense?
/MOO

 

[Dee10]

Well, I have to give him credit. I did not think he would go & he did, plus he took a poly. I can't wait to see the show.

 

[Tennlyn]

Quietly and in small print Focusing Upon Dylan And The Search Dogs.

OT: My Mom always sends things to me in supersize font because she is nearly blind, so whenever I see large font, I assume the writer has a visual impairment and it's for their own benefit.

Doesn't bother me in the least, no matter the reason!

And yes, I lit my candle today. :candle:
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=DNR

 

[jjenny]

Just jumping off a part of your post.
What if Dylan left Sunday, after MR went to bed. (There wouldn't even have to be an argument, just a kid wanting to see his friends without thinking things through.)
MR gets up the next morning thinking Dylan went up to bed. Maybe he knocks or calls out for him to get up and in getting no response goes into town thinking he'll let him sleep. When MR gets home, he thinks Dylan is still sleeping and goes to wake him, finding that Dylan has not be in his room/bed at all. Realizing how bad it will sound that he didn't even know he had left and the legal problems that will follow he searches on his own, figuring Dylan is probably at R's house. This might explain the changing stories of that morning.
Also this would explain why no one saw Dylan leave Monday morning.
Dylan could have been picked up by anyone that night or hit by a car, a lot of deer run into the road in CO, someone may not have even realized it was not an animal. (Hate writing that last sentence)

Does this make any sense?
/MOO

I don't think this makes sense. Dylan did not sleep in the room. He was sleeping on the couch in the living room. There is absolutely no way MR could have missed him not being there. Especially considering MR claims he actually talked to Dylan, and Dylan actually responded to him.

 

[Seajay]

It may give insight and leads as to the person that had something to do with Dylan's disappearance. Don't you hope finding this person would also lead to Dylan's discovery?

Sure. If I really thought that's what this was about. But they have a lead, of the renter who was seen and from everything I've seen and gathered, that has been poo pooed by that camp for the simple reason, it probably doesn't implicate MR.

Why are they so ready to discount a lead that LE thinks if viable, then think going on Dr. Phil to generate leads is more viable???? I just don't get the thinking on this. I really don't. IMO, this was to grandstand and has not a whole lot to do with Dylan.

 

[cluciano63]

Well, I have to give him credit. I did not think he would go & he did, plus he took a poly. I can't wait to see the show.

Do we know for a fact MR took a polygraph with Dr. Phil?

 

[SuperMom1995]

I can't remember if I have mentioned it on this thread or another one but when my 5 year old family member was murdered the suspect was already in custody for another little girls murder. LE knows this man is guilty but knew it couldn't be proven without reasonable doubt so instead of charging him in her murder at that time and because he was already incarcerated for the other girls murder they decided not to charge him....yet. The reason is because if they did and he was acquitted then they couldn't later with more evidence charge him again. Unfortunately, it's now a cold case.

But that is to separate counts of murder did that happen at the same time together?