CO - Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #39

[cluciano63]

I am a little vague on the details in Lisa's case right now. But I do recall the same feeling of confusion/ irritation that they did not do the forensic search until about two weeks later, much like this case.

In Dylan's case, it is almost impossible to guess what theories LE is really entertaining. If they did get any type of hit in the home or a vehicle, I do not think they would announce it. But as I said before, such a hit could explain their handling of the case in a way, at least to me.

I hope LE brought dogs into the house for that search. It would be ludicrous not to do so.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I've seen photos and video of the day they were there. Don't recall seeing any dogs but I could be wrong. Wouldn't that have to be requested on the warrant? At the time I don't think they were considering a possible death in the home were they?

MOO

I would think that they would be considering all possibilities when they take the time to do a extensive search. They go through a house with a fine tooth comb. The FBI would have a standard protocol to follow and it shouldn't vary. The circumstances of his disappearance were suspicious and the last person to see him would be the first to be looked at. So, yes I think they would have brought dog in.

 

[Kamille]

So a non-descript decomp scent, one that was released puclicly. In Dylan's case, if there was a decomp scent from the vehicles or the home, would we have heard of it? At what point in baby Lisa's case was that made public?

The dogs were brought in when the parents consented to a search. After they got the hit, LE got a search warrant for a more thorough search. The HRD dog hit was used as a basis for the warrant. Media got a hold of the warrant under the FOIA. That's how the information became public.

MOO

 

[mijamawi]

We have no idea if HRD dogs were even at the home do we?

No, we don't but surely if they're doing a forensic search 10 days after the fact, there would be some kind of HRD dogs unless they didn't suspect a death occured.

Wrapping a body in plastic or putting it in some kind of airtight plastic container would prevent scent transfer. The back of a pick up is pretty easy to clean out as well.
MOO

Sure, I can see that, but if HRD dogs can pick up a scent at a lake, they'd be able to pick up a scent wrapped in plastic. I could be wrong, I'm not up to date on SAR or HRD dogs.

I don't think a dog scent/hit is ever enough to be the basis of an arrest. There is a whole separate thread about this hit in her forum, as it became a huge deal, but resulted in nothing so far, 16 months later. It might surface again as a part of a case, if they ever make one.

But it somehow became public knowledge that a decomp scent was found. How long into the investigation did this come out?

IIRC, the media got a hold of it, not sure if LE released it. I doubt the LE in Dylan's case would make it public if it occurred. In a way, it would explain their seemingly non-frantic search for Dylan, or any allusions to a possible predator in the area (if they suspect he is deceased) but a "hit" would not be enough to charge.

Well obviously someone got a hold of it. It had to come from LE in some sort of capacity, whether it was leaked anonymously or not.


I want someone to walk me through MR either killing Dylan or hiding him. So many want to point the finger at him. So many want to say those of us who don't are certifiable. I have to admit I've wavered back and forth. I don't call MR innocent, I just don't have the facts that point to him 100%. Convince me.

 

[scorekeeper]

Has K9 Forensics checked at or near MR's house? Since LE doesn't seem very involved in their search and they have friends and family members there with them, I'd think news of a hit from them would be public very quickly. MOO

This is my opinion - if they are a professional group - they will notify LE of any of their findings - probably through a requested meeting or a written report. We don't know what type of agreement they have with the family.

 

[mijamawi]

The dogs were brought in when the parents consented to a search. After they got the hit, LE got a search warrant for a more thorough search. The HRD dog hit was used as a basis for the warrant. Media got a hold of the warrant under the FOIA. That's how the information became public.

MOO

What do we need to do to get the same info from LaPlata to see the SW served? Do we just need to call and cite the FOIA?

 

[Dee10]

BABY LISA CASE:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539176,00.html
A cadaver dog searching the home of missing baby Lisa Irwin – who disappeared 17 days ago – has picked up the scent of a dead body in her parents' bedroom, according to a newly released document in the case.

"Debbie Bradley isn't talking to investigators and only she can provide needed answers in the investigation into her missing daughter, Kansas City police said Friday.
Police issued the statement just ahead of next week's one-year anniversary of the disappearance of then 10-month-old Lisa Irwin from her Northland home.

It is the most direct comment that police have made about Bradley since the initial days when the baby was reported missing on Oct. 4....


Young said police "are not putting any label" on Bradley when asked by KCTV5 whether she is a person of interest.http://www.kctv5.com/story/19667428/police-baby-lisa-irwins-mom-only-one-who-can-provide-answers


I was wrong Debra Bradley still not being called a POI.

 

[SCHMAE]

Someone earlier said MB was not doing enough and while that may seem true, I think shes' from a Denver station , which is a very busy area so shes' probably got plenty on her plate there. But what about KT? He just kind of fell off and quit asking questions. Would he be one to go back to and ask if he could find out anything new? He seemed to be good at what is known as ' soft ball ' questions , which makes me think in a small area like that he will NOT ask the questions or pressure the LE. They probably all golf together and date each other's sisters so he doesn't want to upset any of them. I guess we 'll see if LE told ole Phil any new info we haven't heard yet. That is what I'm hoping for !

Also hoping DYLAN IS ALIVE and I may be an idiot for thinking it but I'm making a conscious decision to wrap myself in a blanket of blissful ignorance for every day that I can on this case . I refuse to believe a cadaver dog will find him You gotta have faith !

 

[AnotherSetOfEyes]

Okey doke. I have long figured on an argument between Mr and Dylan. Not a fan of the premeditated theory, although i'm not ruling it out, but I see much more a quick and violent confrontation that got our of hand. Probably at home. Figure MR had enough of the texting on the way home and confiscated the phone. Maybe Dylan was texting from the ipod later (9:37?) although once again, I'm open to other possibilities. Choking/smothering (leaving very little evidence, particulary 10 days later) and then a real quick, panicked, ohmigod whatdoido reaction. Packs up Dylan and the backpack (which has not been opened) and dispatches him quickly. Maybe the lake? Maybe a long drive on a path well known to a place well known to him. If the lake, then probably so he can "hold on" to Dylan in a place he sees every damned day. the lake is problematic because I cannot visualize how you would toss a 100 lb body over that walkway near the dam. And no, i don't think MR has a boat or would have risked using one to dispose of Dylan. I lean a bit more to a pipeline project/open construction zone place. But part of me has always believed this is the simplest of crimes and the simplest of scenes. Quick, violent argument followed by a dump in the lake. Hope I'm wrong.

Jumping off your post. This part of the interview with MB is interesting and fits with argument, accident or premeditated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGEwCBPy90w

In this interview MR states that cell service is spotty except after you come around the dam . (Note location. Pretty much where first dogs alerted, isn't it?)

MR says they left McDonald's around 7:30. That it's about a 45 min drive. He states they reached his house around 8:15 to 8:30. Where would they be at 8:05? I would imagine LE has driven the route and noted the location. Perhaps it is why they first started searching at the lake site by the dam?

@12:33 in the video MR says: "Theres not a lot of cell phone service between Durango and the lake up here. And it's not until you come up past the dam that you actually can get your cell phone service as a Verizon customer. But, I specifically remember him texting about that time."

Is it possible that whatever happened, premeditated or otherwise, happened at that time and that spot?

 

[mijamawi]

Jumping off your post. This part of the interview with MB is interesting and fits with argument, accident or premeditated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGEwCBPy90w

In this interview MR states that cell service is spotty except after you come around the dam . (Note location. Pretty much where first dogs alerted, isn't it?)

MR says they left McDonald's around 7:30. That it's about a 45 min drive. He states they reached his house around 8:15 to 8:30. Where would they be at 8:05? I would imagine LE has driven the route and noted the location. Perhaps it is why they first started searching at the lake site by the dam?

@12:33 in the video MR says: "Theres not a lot of cell phone service between Durango and the lake up here. And it's not until you come up past the dam that you actually can get your cell phone service as a Verizon customer. But, I specifically remember him texting about that time."

Is it possible that whatever happened, premeditated or otherwise, happened at that time and that spot?

If that's the case, then what? MR grabbed the phone and killed Dylan in one smooth punch/ninja star? He quickly threw the body in the lake with all belongings EXCEPT the iTouch?

 

[Seajay]

I want someone to walk me through MR either killing Dylan or hiding him. So many want to point the finger at him. So many want to say those of us who don't are certifiable. I have to admit I've wavered back and forth. I don't call MR innocent, I just don't have the facts that point to him 100%. Convince me.

This is pretty much what I asked someone one day. Give me a reason, something in MR's past that would convince me that he'd kill his own child. I never really got an answer. There has been times where I could be convinced and it seems everyone who wants me to believe MR did this, has missed the mark when they had the chance. I asked for something outlined to be completely based on fact, not maybe, not could be, not speculation, but cold hard fact.

 

[cluciano63]

No, we don't but surely if they're doing a forensic search 10 days after the fact, there would be some kind of HRD dogs unless they didn't suspect a death occured.



Sure, I can see that, but if HRD dogs can pick up a scent at a lake, they'd be able to pick up a scent wrapped in plastic. I could be wrong, I'm not up to date on SAR or HRD dogs.





But it somehow became public knowledge that a decomp scent was found. How long into the investigation did this come out?



Well obviously someone got a hold of it. It had to come from LE in some sort of capacity, whether it was leaked anonymously or not.


I want someone to walk me through MR either killing Dylan or hiding him. So many want to point the finger at him. So many want to say those of us who don't are certifiable. I have to admit I've wavered back and forth. I don't call MR innocent, I just don't have the facts that point to him 100%. Convince me.

I won't try to convince you, as I am not convinced, but what i am taking away from this discussion is that we have probably seen cases where dogs have been in a house where someone has been killed and yet either not "hit" or we never heard about it if they did, Lacey being a possible case.

As far as Lisa, someone just pointed out that media did in fact get a hold of the search warrant and thus learned about the dogs hitting in Mom's bedroom.

I am not sure about Lacey, but I do think there are probably cases where people have been murdered in a house and removed very quickly, thus perhaps not leaving a scent. There are methods of death other than strangulation that would not create a crime; head injury without blood, poison, etc.

Anyway, I am not convinced that Dylan being killed in the house is out of the question.

 

[cluciano63]

This is pretty much what I asked someone one day. Give me a reason, something in MR's past that would convince me that he'd kill his own child. I never really got an answer. There has been times where I could be convinced and it seems everyone who wants me to believe MR did this, has missed the mark when they had the chance. I asked for something outlined to be completely based on fact, not maybe, not could be, not speculation, but cold hard fact.

As far as I have gathered, not many posters feel that Dylan was killed on
purpose, if he was, by MR. Some feel it was accidental, other that perhaps he struck him, something like that.

I have no opinion on MR as yet except that I have no reason to believe his version of events at this time. I do not know him, his story does not really make sense to me and I do not believe Dylan would take off without contacting anyone. So I am just stuck, hoping LE is less so.

 

[mijamawi]

I won't try to convince you, as I am not convinced, but what i am taking away from this discussion is that we have probably seen cases where dogs have been in a house where someone has been killed and yet either not "hit" or we never heard about it if they did, Lacey being a possible case.

As far as Lisa, someone just pointed out that media did in fact get a hold of the search warrant and thus learned about the dogs hitting in Mom's bedroom.

I am not sure about Lacey, but I do think there are probably cases where people have been murdered in a house and removed very quickly, thus perhaps not leaving a scent. There are methods of death other than strangulation that would not create a crime; head injury without blood, poison, etc.

Anyway, I am not convinced that Dylan being killed in the house is out of the question.

Well that's the thing. I will bash MR, put him in my crosshairs, what have you if I had enough evidence/reasoning to do so. So far I'm not there. Does MR raise red flags, hell yeah. With what we know, all I need is someone to walk me through it with the stated facts and I'm there. Until then, I'm on the fence. I don't know MR. I have no personal vested interest in MR. All I'm trying to get across is I'm not convinced. I'm not going to convict someone on creepy make me want to shower. That's ridiculous. If someone can give me a good argument with facts as we know it, then I'm all over the MR did it camp. Until then, it's irresponsible not to weight other scenarios.

 

[Seajay]

I would think that if he accidently killed Dylan, he'd be in a panic or change the way he acts around people. A guilty conscience is a heavy burden and most people will change something big about their behaviors. I wouldn't think if he accidently killed Dylan that his first thought would be "oh good, I just got even with my ex." Then proceed to do something with the body was would "stick it further to his ex." Like dump the body in a waterway in a town upstream from C.S. Most people if something happened by accident would hardly be functioning after that, especially if it was their child. IMO.

 

[cluciano63]

I do not believe any of us would convict MR with the very little we know. Discussing him is another thing entirely. But we have also discussed the possible unregistered SO (at least I have) or my other possible, an accident on Dylan's part, in a place LE has not searched. Maybe he did take a ride partway, and then encountered a mineshaft or well, outside of the area LE has searched. Not likely, but I am open to it.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Well, it could very well be true that the cell service is so spotty that it is hard to get service. If you lived in that area, you would know what locations would give you a good signal. Plus, different service providers have different coverage areas.

Someone made the point about the reporters phone ringing, but I imagine if she reports in areas that are remote like the mountains then she would have the best device that's out there. So, Dylan doesn't send any texts after he arrives at MR's. Is it because he couldn't get a signal out? Or, is it because he never made it there?

I have to go with he made it there because of the way LE stated the possible scenarios.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Here's how the information about the cadaver dog hit in Baby Lisa's case came out:

This is from an Associated Press article:

An FBI cadaver dog reacted to the scent of a dead person inside the Kansas City home where a baby girl disappeared nearly three weeks ago, and investigators discovered soil in the backyard that had been "recently disturbed or overturned," police said in a court document released Friday.

The affidavit, filed earlier this week in support of a search warrant targeting the family's home, also stated that the girl's mother, Deborah Bradley, "made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she "was afraid of what she might find."'

Those details and others in the affidavit, publicly released for the first time Friday, led to a daylong search Wednesday of the family's home, where the parents say then-10-month-old Lisa Irwin must have been snatched in the middle of the night as the mother and two other boys slept.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Ok, so then what? If he's killed at the home of MR then what happens? Again, I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm honestly and truly trying to go the route of MR did it and I need guidance to follow that trail.

There are many things that point to MR. His bumbling speech pattern, his constricted pupils, his smirky smirk. I would like a step by step (with facts known) on what happened, or what some think happened. Since he's opened to being sleuthed, I would like to travel that road.

I have some where he was not killed in the house. This is not comprehensive, because I have so many theories, it would take up way too much space.
Choose your own theory, style:

Mark became angry at Dylan on Sunday night because Dylan wanted to spend time with his friends.

1. Dylan does not make it to Mark’s house-go to * below
2. Something happens right after they arrive- go to # below
3. Dylan makes it to Mark's house.

They watch the movie
The phone:

1. Battery goes dead.
2. Gets taken away from Dylan
3. Gets broken during a scuffle

And

1. Dylan uses the iPod
2. Mark uses the iPod- go to # below

(I haven’t read anything about an iTouch, just an iPod),
Dylan sleeps on the couch
The next morning, Mark does not really want to take Dylan to his friend’s house, so he just makes noise around the house, but does not actually wake Dylan. He tells Dylan he is leaving to run his errand. Dylan mumbles something back.
Mark leaves.
Dylan:

1. Realizes Mark is leaving grabs his stuff and runs out the door after him
   Dylan gets picked up by inconvenient abductor
2. Keeps sleeping

Dylan:

1. Wakes up, packs his things, does not contact anyone, walks out the door and gets picked up by inconvenient abductor
2. Wakes up, waits for Mark, Mark comes and gets him, argument ensues on the road trip, they pull over to ague, get out of the car, something happens to Dylan and he is dropped somewhere between Mark’s house and Bayfield (or even past Bayfield)

*Argument ensues in the car

1. Mark tells Dylan to go ahead a walk to his friends house, Dylan does so and gets picked up by inconvenient abductor
2. They pull over to ague, get out of the car, something happens to Dylan and he is dropped somewhere between Durango and Mark’s house or in the lake. This could happen even after the last communication IF they never made it back to the house.
3. Dylan is passed off to someone else on the trip home (dead, alive and/or drugged)

#Argument ensues at house. Phone is taken away from Dylan, either Dylan or Mark make the last electronic communication.

1. Dylan walks outside the house something happens to Dylan an:
2. 1. He is dropped anywhere within a 5 hour radius.
   2. Attacked by animals
   3. Succumbs to the elements
3. Mark says, FINE I will take you to your friends house, they get in the car,

1. They pull over to ague, get out of the car, something happens to Dylan and he is dropped somewhere between Mark’s house and Bayfield (or even past Bayfield)
2. Dylan is passed off to someone else on the trip home (dead, alive and/or drugged)

 

[ColdHands]

Wrapping a body in plastic or putting it in some kind of airtight plastic container would prevent scent transfer. The back of a pick up is pretty easy to clean out as well.

MOO

Yes, I think it would be much more likely that MR would transport Dylan's body in the back rather than in the cab with him. Quick hose down at the local car wash and it's clean.