CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #40

[Eileen730]

Doesn't matter, they can't arrest him for failing a polygraph!!! That's just not enough to get an arrest warrant, I'm sorry but that's fact. If that was all LE was waiting on, they could have arrested him back in the beginning.

Even if he had failed it, he would STILL not have looked as bad as he did by refusing it. Those polygraphs are not going to clear him, nor send him to jail, I don't care what anybody tells you. Yes, LE will say they will help clear their name, but that is just to get them to cooperate. They can still investigate a person even if they passed a poly. The poly alone does not always advance a case one way or the other. I know this, my son has dealt with a lot of cases and this is what he told me. He ran the CID (Criminal Investigation) here for over 10 years, he knows what he is talking about!

A few posts back I said LE never asked him to take another one.
They dont need him to
they KNOW

jmo

 

[jjenny]

What do they know? They sure don't sound like they know anything when they talk.

 

[Ronald99]

I do not believe they ever told him it was inconclusive, just as I feel certain he was not told that the person who gave it to him was not qualified. I think he was told he failed, period.

MR stated on TV he Failed, then he said inconclusive.

Can you just picture Law Enforcement looking at MR and saying, That's ok Mark, That person wasn't qualified to administer that Polygraph Test.

 

[Seek&Find]

You know after they sent the divers in they were sending helicopters over the lake for a while weren't they? We're they hoping the body would eventually float up? Does that happen?

I think it's a difficult task to search a frozen lake but I don't know that it's impossible. I know divers recovered Samantha Koenig from a frozen lake in Alaska. Of course I have no idea how much the altitude and depth etc have to do with the risks and whether it's even possible there. Where is diveguy?

Certified Advanced & Nitrox diver here (w/ some other specialties). Hubby's a PADI Course Director, top level instructor of instructors, DAN instructor trainer, dry suit, advanced nitrox/enriched air instructor trainer, rescue diver and a bazillion other certs/specs. In fact, for fun, he went diving in the Arctic a few years ago. Water temp was 29 degrees, as salinity lowers freezing temp. It's his goal to take one of the dive trips offered to the Antartic.

High altitude, cold water, depth, air mix, and bottom terrain will all impact the search. Months ago when we were discussing this/ it was in the media, it was reported they were diving in 40 ft, using trimix, and could only be in the water 20-30 min 1/day. With that info, both hubby and I called BS, as they could've done two twenty minute dives per day under those conditions, in dry suits/cold water regs/equipment, and trimix would've been an unnecessary expense. Recently, I looked up the res info, and it looks like it's up to 121 ft deep, which would be calculated even deeper than that on dive tables due to altitude. If they were diving to that depth, the trimix and time restraints make more sense.

The cold and high altitude diving aren't unusual circumstances for many colorado divers. The altitude and depth is what restricts bottom time, and the cold can be numbing even through the right gear, so it's harder to feel things, if you're forced to search tactilely due to low vis/low light. (Tactile portion from article I read some time ago re: recovery diving.) IMO, what'd be hardest is that you can't stay down long and search, so it's time consuming (read cost), may require enriched air depending on depth (cost), and a lake bottom can be filled with debris, trees, boulders, which are hazards and obstructions. It's expensive and hard, but IMO, they need an experienced, tenacious, high altitude, cold water, recovery diving team.

It can be done. As stated in quoted post, it's been done before. I tried to snip a bunch of potential resources for the fam to look into last night that could help.

Moo

 

[jjenny]

Why would LE have such an incompetent polygrapher?
:floorlaugh:

 

[Eileen730]

What do they know? They sure don't sound like they know anything when they talk.

I think they know alot more than you might think!


but thats JMO

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

It's also possible that they wanted a certain someone to feel comfortable in them not thinking a body is in that lake. I don't think that alone would stop them from trying to recover a body but that combined with temps, depth and now a frozen lake might.

Perhaps they think that once spring comes and temps rise so might a body?

I find LE's reaction to the dog hits to be very odd and hard to explain. It was not just one dog that could have made a mistake. It's what now 3 or 4 dogs? There is a body in that lake.

 

[jjenny]

Certified Advanced & Nitrox diver here (w/ some other specialties). Hubby's a PADI Course Director, top level instructor of instructors, DAN instructor trainer, dry suit, advanced nitrox/enriched air instructor trainer, rescue diver and a bazillion other certs/specs. In fact, for fun, he went diving in the Arctic a few years ago. Water temp was 29 degrees, as salinity lowers freezing temp. It's his goal to take one of the dive trips offered to the Antartic.

High altitude, cold water, depth, air mix, and bottom terrain will all impact the search. Months ago when we were discussing this/ it was in the media, it was reported they were diving in 40 ft, using trimix, and could only be in the water 20-30 min 1/day. With that info, both hubby and I called BS, as they could've done two twenty minute dives per day under those conditions, in dry suits/cold water regs/equipment, and trimix would've been an unnecessary expense. Recently, I looked up the res info, and it looks like it's up to 121 ft deep, which is calculated deeper due to altitude. If they were diving to that depth, the trimix and time restraints make more sense.

The cold and high altitude diving aren't unusual circumstances for many colorado divers. The altitude and depth is what restricts bottom time, and the cold can be numbing even through the right gear, so it's harder to feel things, if you're forced to search tactilely due to low vis/low light. (Tactile portion from article I read some time ago re: recovery diving.) IMO, what'd be hardest is that you can't stay down long and search, so it's time consuming (read cost), may require enriched air depending on depth (cost), and a lake bottom can be filled with debris, trees, boulders, which are hazards and obstructions. It's expensive and hard, but IMO, they need an experienced, tenacious, high altitude, cold water, recovery diving team.

It can be done. As stated in quoted post, it's been done before. I tried to snip a bunch of potential resources for the fam to look into last night that could help.

Moo

I am sure it can be done, and if LE firmly believed Dylan was in the lake, more would be done.
LE isn't going to wait around if they beleived body was in the lake. The longer they wait, the more evidence gets degraded.

 

[mmmagique]

That is true! And I am still very angry because he refused to take it!! It wouldn't matter to me who gave the test, if I agreed on national t.v. to take one, I would go through with it no matter what, because I know that by refusing it, I would look guilty as hell!!
I cannot imagine why anybody would want to make themselves look even worse than they do already.

Not to mention the fact that if you were not guilty, taking it and passing it, could allow the police to focus on others rather than you.

 

[rebeccaeee]

There is something decomposing. It doesn't mean its Dylan.

Wouldn't it be *extraordinary* if it was not Dylan? It feels wrong to want to pass this particular misfortune onto someone else. Doing some moral wrestling here but wow oh wow, what if someone is in the lake and it is NOT Dylan? I read that Sabre is trained to hit on bones and cadavers. How old could bones be and still get an HRD to hit?

 

[jjenny]

Wouldn't it be *extraordinary* if it was not Dylan? It feels wrong to want to pass this particular misfortune onto someone else. Doing some moral wrestling here but wow oh wow, what if someone is in the lake and it is NOT Dylan? I read that Sabre is trained to hit on bones and cadavers. How old could bones be and still get an HRD to hit?

It could be of non human origin. So wouldn't be extraorinary at all.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

Certified Advanced & Nitrox diver here (w/ some other specialties). Hubby's a PADI Course Director, top level instructor of instructors, DAN instructor trainer, dry suit, advanced nitrox/enriched air instructor trainer, rescue diver and a bazillion other certs/specs. In fact, for fun, he went diving in the Arctic a few years ago. Water temp was 29 degrees, as salinity lowers freezing temp. It's his goal to take one of the dive trips offered to the Antartic.

High altitude, cold water, depth, air mix, and bottom terrain will all impact the search. Months ago when we were discussing this/ it was in the media, it was reported they were diving in 40 ft, using trimix, and could only be in the water 20-30 min 1/day. With that info, both hubby and I called BS, as they could've done two twenty minute dives per day under those conditions, in dry suits/cold water regs/equipment, and trimix would've been an unnecessary expense. Recently, I looked up the res info, and it looks like it's up to 121 ft deep, which would be calculated even deeper than that on dive tables due to altitude. If they were diving to that depth, the trimix and time restraints make more sense.

The cold and high altitude diving aren't unusual circumstances for many colorado divers. The altitude and depth is what restricts bottom time, and the cold can be numbing even through the right gear, so it's harder to feel things, if you're forced to search tactilely due to low vis/low light. (Tactile portion from article I read some time ago re: recovery diving.) IMO, what'd be hardest is that you can't stay down long and search, so it's time consuming (read cost), may require enriched air depending on depth (cost), and a lake bottom can be filled with debris, trees, boulders, which are hazards and obstructions. It's expensive and hard, but IMO, they need an experienced, tenacious, high altitude, cold water, recovery diving team.

It can be done. As stated in quoted post, it's been done before. I tried to snip a bunch of potential resources for the fam to look into last night that could help.

Moo

Thank you so much!

 

[rebeccaeee]

It could be of non human origin. So wouldn't be extraorinary at all.

But...
"Kessinger says Sabre is specifically trained to ignore animal remains and to only look for human scents."

from http://fourcorners.kob.com/news/news/145021-k-9-rescue-team-returns-redwine-search.

Looking for hope where I can and this dog is making it hard.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

I am sure it can be done, and if LE firmly believed Dylan was in the lake, more would be done.
LE isn't going to wait around if they beleived body was in the lake. The longer they wait, the more evidence gets degraded.

Respectfully I disagree. Cost is always a huge factor. And safety of the divers.

 

[Redux]

It could be of non human origin. So wouldn't be extraorinary at all.

It was pointed out to me in a recent post that the dogs know the difference between human decomp and animal decomp. I think it even mentioned that in one of the recent articles about the specific dogs that were out on the lake.

ETA: looks like rebeccaeee posted that article above me.

 

[jjenny]

But...
"Kessinger says Sabre is specifically trained to ignore animal remains and to only look for human scents."

from http://fourcorners.kob.com/news/news/145021-k-9-rescue-team-returns-redwine-search.

Looking for hope where I can and this dog is making it hard.

These dogs are not a 100% accurate.

 

[jjenny]

Respectfully I disagree. Cost is always a huge factor. And safety of the divers.

Equusearch wouldn't cost them anything. If that is their concern.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

It could be of non human origin. So wouldn't be extraorinary at all.

Cadaver dogs are trained to only hit on human decomposition. Could you imagine if they weren't? With all the animal remains scattered around for centuries they would be hitting constantly. They know the difference between animal and human remains. If they didn't they would be pretty worthless.

 

[pattywack]

BBM and just jumping off your post kind of. Interesting. Here's a theory, I hope I can make it make sense.

LE guesses or knows that the pole was planted by MR because MR had been pointing out about the fishing pole being missing and so LE figures he's trying to build an alibi. But they tell everyone it's not Dylan's because they figure it will force MR to divulge more because MR will think his alibi building plan isn't working?

I hadn't thought much of the fishing pole before, but it would be very coincidental to me that they found a fishing pole that just happened to belong to someone else after MR had mentioned the possibility of Dylan having a pole.

Is it possible LE has known all this time but knew they couldn't get into the water until spring? IDK, that would seem unusually cruel to put the family through, plus would LE waste all the resources they have since they first went into the water putting on a facade of going on searches and manning phone lines?

I would think that the pole would have to be identified before LE could say whether it was Dylan's pole or not. Other than MR or CR who else would know? I just can't see LE saying it wasn't Dylan's when MR or CR would know the difference.

 

[Psychic Sleuth]

These dogs are not a 100% accurate.

No and just like polygraphs if repeated hits/fails happen someone needs to pay attention.

Saber is not the only dog to get a hit here. What do you suppose the chances of that are?