CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #42

[Salem]

but you do need to be mirandized if you have been deemed a suspect and have agreed to talk with le -if le doesn't mirandize you your statements can't be held against you.... even if le chooses not to arrest you.

but...you don't need to be mirandized during your arrest (aka. detained or restraint of liberty).

Not necessarily - you can freely make statements, as long as LE is not questioning you. If you confess before LE has a chance to say anything - it will probably hold up in court. Also, you can waive your Miranda rights, typically this must be done in writing.

The analysis rests on the "in custody" issue and who asks the first question.

Salem

 

[NC Analyzer]

No plans for the week
Didn't buy a coat
Didn't want to drive to Bayfield Sunday night

I think those are things we would see Mark do on any week he had Dylan. Those are probably norms for him. I don't see those as sinister at all. There are probably others that I can't think of right now that fall into this category as well.

There are other behaviors and things that have happened in this case that jump out as questionable and cause people to eye him with suspicion, without having to jump on "didn't buy a coat" as evidence of murdering his son.

Just a thought, but when I see people talking about things like the coat, etc. it's more of a defensive reaction to things that MR pointed his finger of blame at Elaine. Those things don't matter in the grand scheme, but it becomes tit-for-tat when he picks at her. JMO

 

[NC Analyzer]

Not necessarily - you can freely make statements, as long as LE is not questioning you. If you confess before LE has a chance to say anything - it will probably hold up in court. Also, you can waive your Miranda rights, typically this must be done in writing.

The analysis rests on the "in custody" issue and who asks the first question.

Salem

You are free to make statements even WHEN LE is questioning you. You can make statements at ANY TIME and they will hold up in court, UNLESS or UNTIL you are in CUSTODY, DETAINED or OTHERWISE prevented from leaving!

You can be a POI or a SUSPECT and still be questioned by LE without Miranda!

You have the right to refuse questioning and leave the area, but if LE stops you, they have to read Miranda!

 

[Dee10]

If Mark is smart then I don't think Dylan is in the lake . Because only a complete idiot would lead LE to the water IMO

...hmm not sure, but I think he would still be required to pay support. If so it might be a reason, who knows. :waitasec:

 

[paris_paris]

WOW! That is some fantastic forensic detective work on the part of LE to actually test the water in the lungs to determine whether it was bath water or river water. I would have never thought to do that! A murderer could have gotten away with murder!

I know it's off topic, but how did the case end? Did the parent try to say they drowned in the bath but put them in the river? They would have been better off saying the toddler drowned in the bath to begin with and that it was a horrible "accident."

I still can't believe that children are not safe with their own parents.

If I remember right, she left the toddler alone in the bath and he drowned. She got scared and didn't want to say it was her fault. She did spend a couple of days blubbering on tv about wanting her baby back. I specifically remember her hanging a big banner over her balcony. It was like Susan Smith all over again. I'm going to see if I can dig up the name. I think it was in the 80's, and might have been in Canada.

 

[FruitTingles]

I'm just a "peacemaker" I do think it is very likely MR is involved. It was just a suggestion because I see people defending MR and they get shot down. I didn't realize threads died when that happened. I definitely was not looking to stir up stuff. I guess I just appreciate everything everyone has to say on here and don't want anyone to get put down for their thoughts. But I see someone posted about the agree to disagree and that seems like a great alternative. I sure hope no one was offended by the suggestion!!!

Don't stress. A lot of people don't like it when others have a different opinion but that's how it is, we agree to disagree. Please keep posting

 

[*Lash*]

The narcissist that was once in my life was elected to a city council position by the citizens of his close community. He was able to hide the DV he put his family through by fear. He totally had the public fooled. Even worse, behind closed doors he laughed about how he fooled the public then held it over his family's heads. Creating even more fear in his family. He loved every minute of it. The public was shocked when they discovered the person he was behind the closed doors of his home.

 

[fedfan4life]

No plans for the week
Didn't buy a coat
Didn't want to drive to Bayfield Sunday night

I think those are things we would see Mark do on any week he had Dylan. Those are probably norms for him. I don't see those as sinister at all. There are probably others that I can't think of right now that fall into this category as well.

There are other behaviors and things that have happened in this case that jump out as questionable and cause people to eye him with suspicion, without having to jump on "didn't buy a coat" as evidence of murdering his son.

It matters naught that he did not buy his child a coat. Rather, it is the point that Mr. Redwine used the fact that Dylan did not have a coat upon his arrival as a jab @ Elaine. There would be no discussion of a coat @ all if this individual had not used it as part of his verbal weaponry during the Dr. Phil interview.

Otherwise, I agree w/your sentiments...

 

[NC Analyzer]

You are free to make statements even WHEN LE is questioning you. You can make statements at ANY TIME and they will hold up in court, UNLESS or UNTIL you are in CUSTODY, DETAINED or OTHERWISE prevented from leaving!

You can be a POI or a SUSPECT and still be questioned by LE without Miranda!

You have the right to refuse questioning and leave the area, but if LE stops you, they have to read Miranda!

I'm going to jump off my own post and provide some real life examples so this is better understood.

LE has an active investigation. They have several people at the top of their list of possible suspects. They request an interview with the number one unnamed POI. They bring him in. They don't tell him he is not a suspect because at that point there are several unnamed suspects. They question him. They don't have to read him Miranda. They advise him that anything he says can be used against him in a court of law. He agrees to talk. He leaves out pertinent information in his statement, but they aren't ready to arrest or detain him. He is free to leave. He has become their unnamed suspect, but they don't necessarily "name" him a suspect because they want him to feel like they are stupid cops and he got one over on him. He is still a suspect. He just wasn't named a suspect. He doesn't have to be named a suspect. They can question 100 more suspects and come right back to the first guy and ask him to come in again for questioning. He agrees. LE knows he's their guy, but they don't have to tell him that...and they won't as long as he's talking. He starts to change his statement from the first version of events. It will be at THAT point that LE will likely read Miranda. If he wants to talk, he is free to continue to talk. If he doesn't ask for an attorney, he won't get one and everything he said is admissible in a court of law. He probably signed a statement acknowledging that when he was read Miranda. But at no point did LE ever tell this guy he was a suspect....even though he was a suspect from day one.

 

[absentia]

If Mark is smart then I don't think Dylan is in the lake . Because only a complete idiot would lead LE to the water IMO

I personally think MR wants DR found as much as everyone else. He thinks this will all go away once he's found and buried. He doesn't think they will be able to tie him to the crime. I think he expected DR to be found in Nov. I think he's shocked it's gone on this long. He thinks everyone will "realize" that DR had an accident and drowned and it will take the focus off MR.
I think it will not happen this way.

 

[SuperMom1995]

It's a fact, actually he was getting child support. He was then ordered to pay ER child support when the custody order changed.

See, I just thought the child support to him stopped. I had no idea he was now having to pay her. IMO that would be another reason for him to want Dylan found - so he wouldn't have to pay her anymore support.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I actually believe MR is much smarter than some of his defenders, (not naming anyone specifically, as he does have a handful of supporters that can be found throughout the internet), but I think he has the mindset that he can and will get away with this because he believes he is smarter than LE.
Narcissistic people usually think they are above the law and smarter than everyone else.

I agree that he probably perceives himself to be doing a much better job of defending himself to the police and to the public than he actually is.

Fine with me!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm going to jump off my own post and provide some real life examples so this is better understood.

LE has an active investigation. They have several people at the top of their list of possible suspects. They request an interview with the number one unnamed POI. They bring him in. They don't tell him he is not a suspect because at that point there are several unnamed suspects. They question him. They don't have to read him Miranda. They advise him that anything he says can be used against him in a court of law. He agrees to talk. He leaves out pertinent information in his statement, but they aren't ready to arrest or detain him. He is free to leave. He has become their unnamed suspect, but they don't necessarily "name" him a suspect because they want him to feel like they are stupid cops and he got one over on him. He is still a suspect. He just wasn't named a suspect. He doesn't have to be named a suspect. They can question 100 more suspects and come right back to the first guy and ask him to come in again for questioning. He agrees. LE knows he's their guy, but they don't have to tell him that...and they won't as long as he's talking. He starts to change his statement from the first version of events. It will be at THAT point that LE will likely read Miranda. If he wants to talk, he is free to continue to talk. If he doesn't ask for an attorney, he won't get one and everything he said is admissible in a court of law. He probably signed a statement acknowledging that when he was read Miranda. But at no point did LE ever tell this guy he was a suspect....even though he was a suspect from day one.

UBM
I don't understand the part that I underlined. Why would they inform the subject part of the Miranda warning? I would think that police would tell the subject that he was not under arrest and was free to go and then start asking questions.

 

[NC Analyzer]

but you do need to be mirandized if you have been deemed a suspect and have agreed to talk with le -if le doesn't mirandize you your statements can't be held against you.... even if le chooses not to arrest you.

but...you don't need to be mirandized during your arrest (aka. detained or restraint of liberty).

Again, this is completely backwards. Respectfully, I'm asking for a link to the this information.

You DON'T need to be given Miranda if you are (or are not) a suspect. That is simply not the controlling argument.

You MUST be given Miranda if you are arrested. That is the law! :rocker:

 

[NC Analyzer]

UBM
I don't understand the part that I underlined. Why would they inform the subject part of the Miranda warning? I would think that police would tell the subject that he was not under arrest and was free to go and then start asking questions.

They don't "have" to, but they usually do. That said, they don't usually advise him he is free to go, although that varies with jurisdiction. They want him to be "comfortable" and talk. They also don't like DA's who come back and whip them with a wet noodle if they can't prosecute, LOL. It's set up to keep the suspect from bolting.

My concern is there are some folks who have their due process rights....all turned around and wrong. All of us have a responsibility to know what our rights are. If LE asks to chat with you, you don't have to go. If you go, you don't have to chat. If you chat, you don't have to answer all their questions. If you want to leave, then LEAVE. If they have enough evidence, they will arrest you. If they don't, you can leave. But none of this is dependent on whether or not you are a POI or a suspect. You might just be a witness.

 

[SuperMom1995]

"I didn't notice his backpack not being there," Mark Redwine told Dr. Phil. "There was a fishing pole at the house, and it was Dylan's fishing pole. That fishing pole was never found."

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/missing-boys-parents-snipe-on-dr-phil

MR on DP regarding the backpack.

He keeps saying that....SENSITIVE :gavel:

 

[fedfan4life]

The narcissist that was once in my life was elected to a city council position by the citizens of his close community. He was able to hide the DV he put his family through by fear. He totally had the public fooled. Even worse, behind closed doors he laughed about how he fooled the public then held it over his family's heads. Creating even more fear in his family. He loved every minute of it. The public was shocked when they discovered the person he was behind the closed doors of his home.

Oh my... That is chilling. I am so very thankful that I do not have a person such as this is my personal life. Unfortunately, I do have liars (2 of them, in fact) who will look you in the eye and swear to the bitter end that what he/she is saying is the truth.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They don't "have" to, but they usually do. That said, they don't usually advise him he is free to go, although that varies with jurisdiction. They want him to be "comfortable" and talk. They also don't like DA's who come back and whip them with a wet noodle if they can't prosecute, LOL.

Police usually tell subjects that anything they say can be used against them in court when they don't have to? That would tend to make people uncooperative in my opinion.

 

[Kimster]

When the Miranda Warning Is Required

It doesn't matter whether an interrogation occurs in a jail, at the scene of a crime, on a busy downtown street, or the middle of an open field: If a person is in custody (deprived of his or her freedom of action in any significant way), the police must read them their Miranda rights if they want to question the suspect and use the suspect's answers as evidence at trial.

If a person is not in police custody, however, no Miranda warning is required and anything the person says can be used at trial if the person is later charged with a crime. This exception most often comes up when the police stop someone on the street to question him or her about a recent crime or the person blurts out a confession before the police have an opportunity to deliver the warning.


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-questioning-miranda-warnings-29930.html

 

[absentia]

I agree that he probably perceives himself to be doing a much better job of defending himself to the police and to the public than he actually is.

Fine with me!

it's hard to judge his intelligence. He's so controlling and manipulative that clearly he was emotionally stunted at a young age. you have to have some intelligence to be manipulative, but you don't have to be smart, as in, aware of and able to function in reality. The emotional need is going to take precedence over reality. So he may be cunning abusively, but it doesn't mean he's got a grip on his position. I think his arrogance and denial of any negative sense of self affects his perception of reality. He, like the run of the mill sociopath, believes he can outsmart everyone, and that he is untouchable. He can't accept a negative thought about himself and he doesn't believe anyone else holds negative thoughts about him either.