CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #49

[Money Girl]

Reading snippets quickly when I get a chance here. I may be way off base, but the grate mentioned wasn't in the area surrounded by the coffer dam was it??
Someone mentioned whether or not the excavator was used or not earlier upthread - there were some sizeable tree stumps visible in the pics published over the last couple of days. I'd imagine the machinery would be needed to lift them out of the way of the searchers, and not necessarily used for digging at all.
:moo:

I read it to mean the grate was at the bottom of the dam, so it would not be in the same place where the coffer dam was built. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Thx

 

[Seajay]

So now Denise thinks there's a body in the lake, or around the lake, or in a tributary to the lake. Is that right? How are they going to track that down? Because now the scope is expanded to around the lake and the tributaries. How many tributaries are there? 5? Or are they the main tributaries and there are even more?
That scope is really overwhelming. The lake alone was enormous.

If that's where they are going with it, it's going to take a long time to rule out each contributing tributary. Something keeps giving off a scent to the cadaver dogs, it needs to be found so they know whether to end their search there and/or go somewhere else to look. With the lake being so big, it's going to take awhile just to rule that out. I wish them well and hope they do not find Dylan in that lake or the tributaries. I do not want this boy found dead, period. IMO, JMO, MOO.

 

[The Cheese]

Reading snippets quickly when I get a chance here. I may be way off base, but the grate mentioned wasn't in the area surrounded by the coffer dam was it??
Someone mentioned whether or not the excavator was used or not earlier upthread - there were some sizeable tree stumps visible in the pics published over the last couple of days. I'd imagine the machinery would be needed to lift them out of the way of the searchers, and not necessarily used for digging at all.
:moo:

It says the grate is in the south west. The coffer dam was in the mid east.

I agree that the backhoe was for stump removal and not for digging. I think they may have had it there in case stumps were in the way of them laying down the sand bags and setting up the coffer.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

So now Denise thinks there's a body in the lake, or around the lake, or in a tributary to the lake. Is that right? How are they going to track that down? Because now the scope is expanded to around the lake and the tributaries. How many tributaries are there? 5? Or are they the main tributaries and there are even more?

That scope is really overwhelming. The lake alone was enormous.

In the reading I did, skilled handlers of water search dogs can identify the areas likely to be the source of the scent. I don't think that the dog hits in specific places indicate a scent feed from a tributary, but only someone with the skills to understand how the current and flow work in the reservoir could really say with any certainty.

 

[rebeccaeee]

So now Denise thinks there's a body in the lake, or around the lake, or in a tributary to the lake. Is that right? How are they going to track that down? Because now the scope is expanded to around the lake and the tributaries. How many tributaries are there? 5? Or are they the main tributaries and there are even more?

That scope is really overwhelming. The lake alone was enormous.

Not just Denise, dogs from at least three different search teams and their expert handlers. And me, FWIW. The lake is fed by five rivers but really the Vallecito Creek and Los Pinos (aka Pine) are the biggies. Pine is very near to the site of the coffer dam.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

"Like all search dogs, cadaver dogs go through extensive training before they can become certified and operational. Cadaver dogs are first trained to recognize a wide spectrum of odors associated with human remains, depending on their specific use. Cadaver dogs for use in a disaster situation focus on more recent decomposition odors, while cadaver dogs that work with law enforcement are also trained to recognize older decomposition odors and smaller odor sources. Only actual human remains are used to train the dogs, no pseudo scent is used in the training process. All K-9s are first taught to give a trained final response or indication upon detection of the odor. They are taught to only give this response when they locate the strongest source of the odor. A large amount of time is spent on making sure that the indication is solid before the K-9 is ever taught to actually search for the odor in a scenario-based problem. Cadaver dogs that are trained in water recovery are taught to give this final indication while working from a boat on a body of water." -from http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

So, if the dogs only alert at the "strongest" source of the odor, why are they alerting all over the place on the reservoir. This suggests a couple of things to me. Someone (I think Emma) mentioned the reservoir being constructed on native american burial grounds possibly OR the source of the scent is from a number of sources OR the single source of the the odor is in pieces. If it's the later, then somewhere there is a messy crime scene.

 

[Money Girl]

Not just Denise, dogs from at least three different search teams and their expert handlers. And me, FWIW. The lake is fed by five rivers but really the Vallecito Creek and Los Pinos (aka Pine) are the biggies. Pine is very near to the site of the coffer dam.

Will Elaine have the new special dogs check those areas now? Or, is that possible?

 

[Emma Ems]

"Like all search dogs, cadaver dogs go through extensive training before they can become certified and operational. Cadaver dogs are first trained to recognize a wide spectrum of odors associated with human remains, depending on their specific use. Cadaver dogs for use in a disaster situation focus on more recent decomposition odors, while cadaver dogs that work with law enforcement are also trained to recognize older decomposition odors and smaller odor sources. Only actual human remains are used to train the dogs, no pseudo scent is used in the training process. All K-9s are first taught to give a trained final response or indication upon detection of the odor. They are taught to only give this response when they locate the strongest source of the odor. A large amount of time is spent on making sure that the indication is solid before the K-9 is ever taught to actually search for the odor in a scenario-based problem. Cadaver dogs that are trained in water recovery are taught to give this final indication while working from a boat on a body of water." -from http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

So, if the dogs only alert at the "strongest" source of the odor, why are they alerting all over the place on the reservoir. This suggests a couple of things to me. Someone (I think Emma) mentioned the reservoir being constructed on native american burial grounds possibly OR the source of the scent is from a number of sources OR the single source of the the odor is in pieces. If it's the later, then somewhere there is a messy crime scene.

Now I have images of a serial killer living in Vallecito that goes off to abduct his victims, brings the home, then dumps them in the lake.

I thought it may be possible that with it's rich history that maybe there was an unknown Indian burial grounds at the location. With the hits all over the board, and no source yet found for the hits, I still think that is plausible. It's definitely better alternative than a serial killer, or a person who dismembered their victim.

 

[catswhiskers]

It says the grate is in the south west. The coffer dam was in the mid east.

I agree that the backhoe was for stump removal and not for digging. I think they may have had it there in case stumps were in the way of them laying down the sand bags and setting up the coffer.

Sorry - reading and posting on gadgets today. I wondered about the grate because in the news photos there seemed to be a largish object or mass exposed right in the middle if the coffer dam. Made my imagination run wild!

 

[The Cheese]

How do we page a SAR person to the thread? I'd like to know what the method is when this has happened in the past. This can't be the first time it's happened. What have SAR people done in the past? How did they find the source when the area of hits is so large?

 

[katydid23]

How do we page a SAR person to the thread? I'd like to know what the method is when this has happened in the past. This can't be the first time it's happened. What have SAR people done in the past? How did they find the source when the area of hits is so large?

There is a thread here somewhere for questions for our verified searchers. It was started by SARX, and I wish I knew where it was now.

 

[Eileen730]

Just wanted to add a point for consideration to this. LE may have Mark's cell number to contact him if they found Dylan. Media may only have his home number, and if his home phone is ringing off the hook while he is out of town for work, well he won't be there to answer it. I don't imagine, if there were a lot of phone calls that he would forward all calls to his cell. But he should definitely give investigators a number he can be reached 24/7 at for when they find Dylan.

I also imagine it would probably be hard to do a media interview over the phone while at work. My husband's job doesn't even allow you to take phones into the building while they are at work. They have to leave them in the car, and that rule came into effect because people wouldn't adhere to the no talking on cell phones during work rule. They would sneak and talk and the job they do requires total concentration and a very simple mistake because of a distraction could be life or death for someone else.

Does anyone know if he is at work?

His silence is disturbing!

 

[mixologist74]

So now Denise thinks there's a body in the lake, or around the lake, or in a tributary to the lake. Is that right? How are they going to track that down? Because now the scope is expanded to around the lake and the tributaries. How many tributaries are there? 5? Or are they the main tributaries and there are even more?

That scope is really overwhelming. The lake alone was enormous.

Respectfully, when did Denise become an expert?

 

[Seajay]

How do we page a SAR person to the thread? I'd like to know what the method is when this has happened in the past. This can't be the first time it's happened. What have SAR people done in the past? How did they find the source when the area of hits is so large?

We have two SAR verified pros that I know of. SARX and Oriah. You can PM one of them and ask them to come to this thread because we have some questions. HTH.

 

[The Cheese]

Respectfully, when did Denise become an expert?

Well I don't think she has a background in this area of expertise, so please take my post as being if what she stated is true.

This would be a great time for a LE press release with their assessment of the situation. I'd imagine the people in that community would be wanting that. It's their local recreation area for their families, as well as a tourist spot that brings them income.

 

[Money Girl]

We have two SAR verified pros that I know of. SARX and Oriah. You can PM one of them and ask them to come to this thread because we have some questions. HTH.

I would like to hear Ransom's input on the latest news article.

 

[The Cheese]

We have two SAR verified pros that I know of. SARX and Oriah. You can PM one of them and ask them to come to this thread because we have some questions. HTH.

Thank you, Seajay! I just sent a message to Sarx, asking for a visit to answer our questions.

 

[mixologist74]

Well I don't think she has a background in this area of expertise, so please take my post as being if what she stated is true.

This would be a great time for a LE press release with their assessment of the situation. I'd imagine the people in that community would be wanting that. It's their local recreation area for their families, as well as a tourist spot that brings them income.

Oh, thanks for clarifying. I was confused a bit.

I do believe it's time for a LE press release.

 

[The Cheese]

Pictures and info on the search posted on FMDR

https://www.facebook.com/FindMissingDylanRedwine

 

[Eileen730]

Respectfully, when did Denise become an expert?

Expert?
She is expressing her opinion as I see it.

From all I have read It appears there is a body in that lake, now is it Dylan or not.

Cant move on till you find out!

JMO