CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 4

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  • #721
Very interesting! I will be watching everyone's eyes from now on!

Here's a question. When pupils are super dilated like that, does it cause blurred vision? When I have my Diabetic Retinal scan done they use drops to dilate my pupils. I can't see properly for hours afterwards. Is this the same when your eyes dilate that big on their own?


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I just want to mention before you go down this rabbit hole too far...remember there was the discussion of him having those black contact lenses. I have not been able to figure out if he was wearing them that evening or not.

Does anyone know for sure one way or another?
 
  • #722
I just want to mention before you go down this rabbit hole too far...remember there was the discussion of him having those black contact lenses. I have not been able to figure out if he was wearing them that evening or not.

Does anyone know for sure one way or another?

Good point! I remember someone saying he may have been wearing those contacts when he was at the police station


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  • #723
The antipsychotic meds make you very sleepy also that's what the big gut is from as I know because my 32year old son has Schizoaffective disorder and bi-polar. I've been dealing with his delusions and voices since he turned 20 after going to college one year. I'm all to familiar with this horrible brain disease. I tell people it's like cancer of the brain. Deteriorating and no cure. My son was very smart too. He graduated HS with high honors and a 4.0 average. I can relate to JH poor parents. It baffles me to this day how this happened to my son who's now in prison. He never hurt anyone but he could have eventually I suppose. He was always the teachers model student.

I'm So Sorry about your Son.. A Very difficult and painful thing!
Blessings~ :daisy:
 
  • #724
OK...that is much more ominous than what was described as a "Number 1 inside of a circle with an infinity sign"

Yes, that is technically what it is. But it looks much more evil - or something! That gives me chills!


I wonder if that symbol is the cross-hairs of a gun sight. With a Joker mask over 2 eyes.

I maybe trying to read too much into that symbol but cross-hair sights was the first thing I thought of and the 2 round circles look like the small mask the joker wore.

Some gun sights are not perfectly in the middle and the gun sights are getting fancy these days and are adjustable inside the sight.
 
  • #725
9f4c8039-608e-45dd-a467-ecdf0f8d0627_800.jpg

Just in: Copy of the gunman's wall calendar, from yesterday's testimony.

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Good Lord.. He marked the calendar and everything. SMH
 
  • #726
I'm still catching up and wanted to add some things about research labs from personal experience. My main lab was micro research but I also worked on a crossover lab which combined a micro/neurology research project. There is no such thing as a failed lab. Really all you do is set out to prove or disprove your theory(hypothesis) and either way it's equally valid. Now, it's not as exciting to have your hypothesis disproved, however, it sets you up to continue research with a new direction. A true scientist is able to take a negated hypothesis and the lab results to come up with a new hypothesis. For me personally, my first research progress presented me with unusual results as I had a strain of pseudomonas aureginosas which was able to exist in environments it shouldn't have(dry cleaning solvent)...so my results ended up pointing me in a different direction altogether by the time I continued with my next hypothesis. All that to say, the only way to have a bad lab is to not do the work, or try to do it hurriedly. Growth plates, especially when dealing with live tissue is particularly time consuming and you cannot skimp on the research time. When I was doing this I would typically be at school from 8am until 8/9pm, but there were times I was there MUCH later. I remember sleeping under a table a couple of times just because the effort of going home just to come back would have been a waste of time.

That is really interesting! So basically....he didn't do enough "work" to prove/disprove his hypothesis at all. Maybe those jokes that the defense loves so much were just filler so that he had enough slides in his presentation? It p's me off that they are trying to saying that his laziness towards work is proof that he was devolving into a psychotic state...
 
  • #727
Maybe JH thought he was much cleverer than everyone else and thought he was above them (narcissistic perhaps). He seems to have gotten a bit of a shock when he didn't do so well at the university. The fact that he walked out of the programme shows he can't take criticism. They were willing to let him stay and redo the assessments but he preferred to just leave.


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I imagine he did feel he was superior in intelligence and felt quite embarrassed by being basically called out. For me personally, I was so afraid of being called out that I was almost ridiculously obsessed with accuracy and the ability to reproduce my lab results.

And to Hatfield, lab work is amazingly fun. When I had my baby girl I became a stay at home mommy but would be lying if I said I didnt miss it. The pictures of DNA that had been chopped was seriously like looking at beautiful artwork. That's actually what I would like to do, run DNA samples and print them as artwork. Like imagine how cool it would be to have a row of each person in your families DNA on an electrophoresis gel in one pic!

But to be more on topic, a know it all, or someone who thinks they can outsmart people makes for one of the worst type of scientist. They are often the type of people who interpret data in a way to make it support things that just aren't so.

Being that he was/is so intelligent, I imagine he had done some self diagnosing. I would love to see his full computer history.
 
  • #728
I also agree that Lynne Fenton and the other staff seriously let JH down. He did ask for help. Why she let him walk away is beyond me. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I was her.

What is your opinion on mental illness vs insanity? Could he have known what he was about to do was wrong?


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I think they law needs to be amended. I think severe mental illness with delusions and psychotic episodes is insanity. Why do you think people with severe mental illness can get disability because it is disabling. I believe as decades have passed more studies and awareness of this horrible disease has come to light the the law needs to be amended.. Insanity is severe mental illness with delusions including audible (voices) Psychotic episodes are uncontrollable actions a state a person is in. He probably did think he was playing some kind of video game in there. His brain jacked up. Problem is since mental institutions have been closed most MI people are forced to live on the streets or with family members but that very difficult to endure or live alone when clearly they can't. There is no government funding to house people with severe mental illness like in the old days. Now they send them to hospitals for a week or two to stabilize them and then they are released because not enough funding to keep them in the hospital for long term. I think the longest is a up to a yea. Here in CA most end up on the streets as the disease progresses especially Un-medicated. With each untreated psychotic episode more deterioration to the brain occurs. Depending how bad it gets most aren't able to function on their own.
 
  • #729
When I think of someone being insane I imagine them just grabbing a weapon and going into some crazed attack. I would never have thought it could be something so meticulously planned and carried out.

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Me too!
 
  • #730
OMG!poor man sat behind the murderer
 
  • #731
I wonder if that symbol is the cross-hairs of a gun sight. With a Joker mask over 2 eyes.

I maybe trying to read too much into that symbol but cross-hair sights was the first thing I thought of and the 2 round circles look like the small mask the joker wore.

Some gun sights are not perfectly in the middle and the gun sights are getting fancy these days and are adjustable inside the sight.

I see that as an infinity symbol...but have no idea what it could mean to him!
 
  • #732
I don't know if this is a British thing and U.S. Courts are more informal but I can't imagine wearing shorts to be a witness.


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  • #733
Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. I'm probably one of the very few who feel really bad for his parents as well. Losing a son to this disease ( like a death) plus living with the fact their son killed and hurt all these innocent innocent people and their families. The wiring in the brain is very intricate and someone with this disease has completely screwed up wiring. I agree with defense that someone with severe mental illness can do this kind of planning as it progresses. listening to the voices and delusions they believe are real. When he said the psychiatrist programmed him to kill. I believe he was believing his delusions. If you've ever been to a mental hospital most severe mentally ill believe they are a celebrity on tv, being spied on by the CIA or being programmed by someone like the government. This is all too familiar. I believe the female psychiatrist (Fenton) should have had him put on a 5150 psychiatric hold than a 5250 and so on. He told her he wanted to kill people that is a homicidal thought that was enough to put him on the 5150 hold and have him committed. He was reaching out and no one did anything. Those are the conditions to put someone on a involuntary hold. Homicidal or suicidal thoughts. I hold those psychiatrist at the college liable too. They did nothing. When he dropped out of school that should have been a big red flag. If JH was mad at the school why didn't he shoot up the teachers and students of the college? I think his mind was deteriorating and that's why he was doing so badly at school. That kind of change is a sign. When he was looking down at his desk according to the witness staring through it. I believe he was listening to the voices and delusions in his head. Like my son he always listened to his headphones with that loud deep techno music trying to drown out the voices in his head. He would cover his head with pillows too. This should have never gone to trial. JH clearly has severe mental illness that eventually took over. He should be in a hospital. IMHO

I really appreciate your insight on this. And I do agree the psychiatrists dropped the ball. In your experience though is someone able to hide this from people easily? Like when you talked to your son while he was away at school did you sense something was amiss?
 
  • #734
I just want to mention before you go down this rabbit hole too far...remember there was the discussion of him having those black contact lenses. I have not been able to figure out if he was wearing them that evening or not.

Does anyone know for sure one way or another?


I've asked this before and I haven't been able to find an answer one way or the other.
 
  • #735
I think they law needs to be amended. I think severe mental illness with delusions and psychotic episodes is insanity. Why do you think people with severe mental illness can get disability because it is disabling. I believe as decades have passed more studies and awareness of this horrible disease has come to light the the law needs to be amended.. Insanity is severe mental illness with delusions including audible (voices) Psychotic episodes are uncontrollable actions a state a person is in. He probably did think he was playing some kind of video game in there. His brain jacked up. Problem is since mental institutions have been closed most MI people are forced to live on the streets or with family members but that very difficult to endure or live alone when clearly they can't. There is no government funding to house people with severe mental illness like in the old days. Now they send them to hospitals for a week or two to stabilize them and then they are released because not enough funding to keep them in the hospital for long term. I think the longest is a up to a yea. Here in CA most end up on the streets as the disease progresses especially Un-medicated. With each untreated psychotic episode more deterioration to the brain occurs. Depending how bad it gets most aren't able to function on their own.

Do you think it's possible that JH might not have committed this terrible attack if he had been taken seriously when he first told Lynne Fenton that he was having thoughts of murdering people? Would the correct medication (taken properly) have stopped this happening?


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  • #736
That is really interesting! So basically....he didn't do enough "work" to prove/disprove his hypothesis at all. Maybe those jokes that the defense loves so much were just filler so that he had enough slides in his presentation? It p's me off that they are trying to saying that his laziness towards work is proof that he was devolving into a psychotic state...

The sad thing is often times you cannot finish a research project conclusively within semester time parameters. But, in my experience, if you have put the hours in and reach a point where you don't have a conclusive answer it is perfectly acceptable to end with "from the research I have gathered, evidence points towards XYZ, but further research is necessary".
 
  • #737
The antipsychotic meds make you very sleepy also that's what the big gut is from as I know because my 32year old son has Schizoaffective disorder and bi-polar. I've been dealing with his delusions and voices since he turned 20 after going to college one year. I'm all to familiar with this horrible brain disease. I tell people it's like cancer of the brain. Deteriorating and no cure. My son was very smart too. He graduated HS with high honors and a 4.0 average. I can relate to JH poor parents. It baffles me to this day how this happened to my son who's now in prison. He never hurt anyone but he could have eventually I suppose. He was always the teachers model student.

Oh my goodness! Do they give him the proper meds in prison? If they do, is that a blessing? I'm so sorry!
 
  • #738
a minute ago

Corbin Dates: Points to where he saw the red/orange haired figure exit on picture

Corbin Dates: "It got to the scene where they are introducing catwoman, well maybe a little before that, but i do remember the same exact door swinging right open"

a minute ago

"they defnintely had a helmet on, goggles, the only thing i do remember seeing was their eyes"

a minute ago

Corbin Dates: "2 pops went of and they emitted a kind of gas"
 
  • #739

Its a deteriorating disease and progresses over time. Meds help but there is no cure. He was aware of it happening that's why he told the GF to stay away from him. I don't remember the exact words. He saw psychiatrist so he clearly knew he was sick but the Drs did nothing when they could have reported he wanted to kill people. That goes over hipaa laws.
 
  • #740
Corbin Dates: "I saw the first round go up to the ceiling, and then I immediately went to the ground."

minute ago

Corbin Dates: "Basically laying down, and my initial instinct was to crawl through to the other side


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a minute ago

Corbin Dates: He started hearing people screaming "for their lives"
 
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