CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 4

[Hatfield]

So if JH is medicated and is being treated for his mental illness, will he be horrified at what he's done?


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JMO

Its a great question and he sure doesnt look upset in the courtroom about what he has done. He still seems to show no remorse at all.

So maybe the medicine(s) he is taking now is not working or he still doesnt care about what he did. It seems his defense team would want to tell him to fake remorse even if he doesn't feel remorse. Maybe he is incapable of remorse and maybe faking it is not an option because he refuses.

I think there are certain crimes in society that are so horrendous that society wants the most severist punishment regardless of the circumstances of the person(s) committing the crime.

An example would be like the killing of JFK. People wanted revenge so much that someone did kill the killer even before trial. That may not be a real good example because some people think Lee Harvey Oswald was killed to silence him since some think other shooters were involved.

Maybe a better example is 9-11 where the bombing of the terrorist camps took place in Afghanistan shortly after. And finally after many years Bin Laden was taken out with deadly force even before trial.

For this trial, the public pressure on the DA was so extreme they felt they had to pursue the DP. If JH could prove he did not know what he was doing at the time, that would be his only chance, but I dont see it happening in this case due to all the careful planning he did beforehand. He was so meticulous and many days involved beforehand that he had lots of time to understand what he was fixing to do would kill and maim lots of people.

Its not surprising the DA did not accept the Life Sentence plea deal because of the public pressure and because this crime is so outrageous.

There are not simple answers to these kinds of cases. About the best thing we can learn from a case like this is if there are signs of someone being really sick and that person is close enough to someone, then try to get the person the help they need. Which is no small task when the person may be refusing help.

There are quite a few cases that are similar. Remember the guy that shot up the school and he killed his mom too. He was similar in a lot of ways. Another similar case is the guy who shot Ronald Regan and had obsession with Jodie Foster. Another sick person for sure. His treatment has seemed to help him, so they say.

Anyway, there is no simple answers to these cases. Trying to get people help before they do something like this is about the best advice we as society have.

 

[Hatfield]

We had testimony from witnesses about JH eyes being large. I have noticed other cases where the killer who had mental issues seemed to have large protruding eyes. I wonder if there is some real correlation that can be made or is it just coincidence.

Here is a perfect example. Look at the photos of the Sandy Hook killer. Adam Lanza

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...=yhs-mozilla-004&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

 

[Maisiebelle]

JMO

Its a great question and he sure doesnt look upset in the courtroom about what he has done. He still seems to show no remorse at all.

So maybe the medicine(s) he is taking now is not working or he still doesnt care about what he did. It seems his defense team would want to tell him to fake remorse even if he doesn't feel remorse. Maybe he is incapable of remorse and maybe faking it is not an option because he refuses.

I think there are certain crimes in society that are so horrendous that society wants the most severist punishment regardless of the circumstances of the person(s) committing the crime.

An example would be like the killing of JFK. People wanted revenge so much that someone did kill the killer even before trial. That may not be a real good example because some people think Lee Harvey Oswald was killed to silence him since some think other shooters were involved.

Maybe a better example is 9-11 where the bombing of the terrorist camps took place in Afghanistan shortly after. And finally after many years Bin Laden was taken out with deadly force even before trial.

For this trial, the public pressure on the DA was so extreme they felt they had to pursue the DP. If JH could prove he did not know what he was doing at the time, that would be his only chance, but I dont see it happening in this case due to all the careful planning he did beforehand. He was so meticulous and many days involved beforehand that he had lots of time to understand what he was fixing to do would kill and maim lots of people.

Its not surprising the DA did not accept the Life Sentence plea deal because of the public pressure and because this crime is so outrageous.

There are not simple answers to these kinds of cases. About the best thing we can learn from a case like this is if there are signs of someone being really sick and that person is close enough to someone, then try to get the person the help they need. Which is no small task when the person may be refusing help.

There are quite a few cases that are similar. Remember the guy that shot up the school and he killed his mom too. He was similar in a lot of ways. Another similar case is the guy who shot Ronald Regan and had obsession with Jodie Foster. Another sick person for sure. His treatment has seemed to help him, so they say.

Anyway, there is no simple answers to these cases. Trying to get people help before they do something like this is about the best advice we as society have.

Very good post!

I believe the best way forward is to stop stigmatising mental health issues. Society does not seem to understand the differing levels of mental health illnesses and many of people fear people with problems. If you mention schizophrenia the assumption is this person is dangerous. Research shows that more than 1/4 of people with serious mental health issues are victims of violent crime. Not perpetrators.

If there is more education about MH there would be so much more acceptance and understanding. People would seek help and receive treatment sooner.

I suffered with post natal (partum?) depression with my first son. I had some very scary intrusive thoughts. My mother in law told me to "Pull yourself together". It was a terrifying time but I kept it inside because I didn't think anyone would understand or help me. It shouldn't be this way. If I had one leg people would want to help me. If I had half a hand, same thing. Tell someone I feel unwell in my brain it's an entirely different thing.


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[Hatfield]

Very good post!

I believe the best way forward is to stop stigmatising mental health issues. Society does not seem to understand the differing levels of mental health illnesses and many of people fear people with problems. If you mention schizophrenia the assumption is this person is dangerous. Research shows that more than 1/4 of people with serious mental health issues are victims of violent crime. Not perpetrators.

If there is more education about MH there would be so much more acceptance and understanding. People would seek help and receive treatment sooner.

I suffered with post natal (partum?) depression with my first son. I had some very scary intrusive thoughts. My mother in law told me to "Pull yourself together". It was a terrifying time but I kept it inside because I didn't think anyone would understand or help me. It shouldn't be this way. If I had one leg people would want to help me. If I had half a hand, same thing. Tell someone I feel unwell in my brain it's an entirely different thing.


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I agree totally.

I had mentioned the other day that I have a relative that has Schizoprenia and so I have seen that particular sickness which is a horrible sickness for anyone that has that.

This is not quite the same, but for me personally, the closest thing I have experienced was a certain medicine that would automatically produce suicidal thoughts and get me very angry. It taught me how scary thoughts can come into people involuntarily. It was very scary and it took me awhile to realize it was the medicine I was taking.

I actually proved it by realizing what it was and then I tested it one last time and sure enough I got very angry after taking the medicine and so I threw it in the trash and went back to the doctor for an alternative.

That was an important lesson I learned how thoughts can enter someone involuntarily. Once that medicine took hold, the thoughts I would get from it were very scary and I could not stop them until the medicine wore off.

 

[Maisiebelle]

I agree totally.

I had mentioned the other day that I have a relative that has Schizoprenia and so I have seen that particular sickness which is a horrible sickness for anyone that has that.

This is not quite the same, but for me personally, the closest thing I have experienced was a certain medicine that would automatically produce suicidal thoughts and get me very angry. It taught me how scary thoughts can come into people involuntarily. It was very scary and it took me awhile to realize it was the medicine I was taking.

I actually proved it by realizing what it was and then I tested it one last time and sure enough I got very angry after taking the medicine and so I threw it in the trash and went back to the doctor for an alternative.

That was an important lesson I learned how thoughts can enter someone involuntarily. Once that medicine took hold, the thoughts I would get from it were very scary and I could not stop them until the medicine wore off.

That sounds awful. I would have stopped taking them too! I've always had a fear of medication. I'm a lot better now but if I have to take something new I'm a wreck for days. I never read the information leaflet because I convince myself I've got all the side effects.


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[Queen Bee]

why we are here :rose:
and the 70 injured and those that love them :rose:

http://images.scribblelive.com/2015/...72cba6_800.jpg

good morning, this is the 12th day of trial and should resume at approximately 8:40 a.m. mountain time :rose:

 

[Queen Bee]

for anyone on the live stream, this is not live......just reviewing yesterday's testimony fyi............

eta........court is not in session as of yet

 

[Maisiebelle]

Morning QB


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[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™ @thegoldpatrol · 58s 58 seconds ago

#theatershooting

Former FBI agent Petet Hunker will be back on the stand this morning.

 

[Queen Bee]

FYI: Court is resuming right now, but our signal connection is down. We'll stick with the replay for a few more moments, hopefully it'll get repaired quickly. An engineer is there working now

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Phil Tenser

 

[Queen Bee]

Update: we have signal strength... working now to get video connection

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Phil Tenser

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™ @thegoldpatrol · 3m 3 minutes ago

#theatershooting

Photo of label on ammo box shown. From company in ATL shipped to JH

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™
‏@thegoldpatrol

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

- More ammo boxes contained in large cardboard box.

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™ @thegoldpatrol · 1m 1 minute ago

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

- Gold dot .40 Smith and Wesson ammo
- Smaller box - same rifle .223 rounds
- Found in dumpster

 

[Queen Bee]

No signal yet. Engineer Bruce is on the scene. He is the one who set it up, so I'm very confident in him.

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Phil Tenser

 

[Queen Bee]

Signal is back. Bruce is our hero!

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Phil Tenser

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™
‏@thegoldpatrol

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

-Ammo boxes .223 ammo

Ship date 6/29/12

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™ @thegoldpatrol · 53s 53 seconds ago

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

- Empty box from Science Co. Says “Magnesium Ribbon”
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The Gold Patrol™ @thegoldpatrol · 2m 2 minutes ago

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

- Plastic Fiskars container (cutting tool)
- Black antennae

 

[Queen Bee]

Peter Hunkar on the stand, identifying additional evidence he recovered. He is a former FBI agent

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Phil Tenser

 

[Queen Bee]

The Gold Patrol™
‏@thegoldpatrol

#theatershooting

Exhibit:

- Magnesium Ribbon purchased 6/19/12